single v.twin engines - unnecsssary anxiety, perhaps

[Captains Cat]

Again, it would be nice for fellow C-Brats to chime into this conversation on their tow service experiences in the interest of helping others.

Rich

I'm not getting in the middle of this one!

Charlie

 

[helm]

I wish I had twins on the Chack Chack just so I could have this
http://www.teleflexmarine.com/products/ ... ol-system/

Eric

 

[Aurelia]

We had twins and liked them but more for maneuvering than anything else.

We will stick with a spare small engine or two on our current boat plus tools and parts to push further with added effort. I have not used and do not plan to ever use a commercial tow service myself. I do have a brother who shuns tools and parts and planning and he has used tow services instead multiple times but usually doesn't roam very far from home.

I rescued and recovered unfortunate people in the wilderness for over a decade and reasonable preparedness plus adequate training/knowledge is just something I can't do without.

If I ever call on the Coast Guard, I know it will be for a darn good reason on a very bad day for us.

Cruising around in a day boat with a single motor in a familiar bay serviced and frequented by loads of boats is one situation.

Running a fishing boat with single motor as a professional with loads of experience and good habits is another.

I think most of the folks on this site are really in another category but I am not sure what to call it.

 

[hardee]

Eric, Yes, i have looked at that system and it is pretty cool. Much of that I can do with my twins set up in the conventional system. The ability to steer each independently, and use the vectoring available would be super cool. Not likely to happen on my boat though --- $$$$$.

Gregg, you are right, And Dr Bob and other too, planning ahead, and self reliance is part of boating responsibly.

As to Sea Tow, (the yellow boats). Not much available on the west coast. The alternative on this side is TowBoat US (the red boats). Still pretty few and far between.

Best to know what you are doing, where you are, who is around you, what direction and speed they are doing, and keep situational awareness.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

I'm absolutely amazed at the number of power boaters I have seen who have no anchoring system aboard, not to mention drogues or parachutes,

I have seen boats proudly displaying as anchor attached to a thin(1/4") frayed, kinked and knotted length of yellow nylon rope that I wouldn't even feel safe tying a poodle up with! :shock:

As for drogues - if you don't have 1 on board and loose power in conditions too rough and deep to anchor, you can fashion 1 from a pair of pants. Do up the zipper and button. Tie a knot in the bottom of each leg, tie 1 end of a length of rope to a belt loop on 1 side and the other end of the rope to a belt loop on the other side then fasten the middle of the length of rope to your bow cleat. It may not be as effective as a properly sized drogue , but in a pinch it offers some sea anchor protection.

If your a size 58" waist you might be OK! It might be a little chilly and embarrassing though waiting for help to arrive in your briefs!

Regards, Rob

 

[hardee]

I'm absolutely amazed at the number of power boaters I have seen who have no anchoring system aboard, not to mention drogues or parachutes,

I have seen boats proudly displaying as anchor attached to a thin(1/4") frayed, kinked and knotted length of yellow nylon rope that I wouldn't even feel safe tying a poodle up with! :shock:

As for drogues - if you don't have 1 on board and loose power in conditions too rough and deep to anchor, you can fashion 1 from a pair of pants. Do up the zipper and button. Tie a knot in the bottom of each leg, tie 1 end of a length of rope to a belt loop on 1 side and the other end of the rope to a belt loop on the other side then fasten the middle of the length of rope to your bow cleat. It may not be as effective as a properly sized drogue , but in a pinch it offers some sea anchor protection.

If your a size 58" waist you might be OK! It might be a little chilly and embarrassing though waiting for help to arrive in your briefs!

Regards, Rob

Rob, Even if I don't carry a drogue, I do have an extra pair of jeans on board. Just in case :lol: :lol:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Robert H. Wilkinson]

Haven't had any experience personally with a tow service(touch wood) but I have read some horror stories similar to the one in Bob's post. Be wary if the tow company calls it a salvage op. Of coarse if you are on rocks in - or with the possibility of rough seas then you might be at their mercy. In particular if your boat is in any danger of letting any fluids escape(oil, fuel or sewage). They can then charge you for enviromental cleanup and any additional precautions they have to take in order to contain the fluids onboard before towing. You could end up loosing your boat - and still owing them money if your insurance doesn't cover this. At my last renewal my company told me their standard home policy no longer covers enviromental cleanup from a leaking fuel oil tank. You have to add that as a rider if you want it.

Regards, Rob

 

[thataway]

At this time the Sea Tow Franchise in the Panama City/Pensacola area is good. I had some personal experience with the prior franchisee, since they were living (and running Sea Tow) out of a house I had previously owned. (Long story, but the fellow I sold it to died at age 46, and his sister took over the house--and a lot of my personal items which had been left there for the new owner to use--along with my 60 foot ham tower, which Sea Tow used, and then cut up and sold for scrap disappeared; GRRrrr. But those guys were a bunch of drunks. Lots of bad stories about them.

I also witnessedTow Boat US destroy a 40 foot trawler which had been deposited on the shore during a hurricane. They should have brought in a crane barge--and lifted it off the shore--as was done for many other boats. But it was cheaper to bridle the boat, and put 3 Tow Boat's on it--when they could not move it with static pulls, they backed off about 50 feet and revved up the boats so they could jerk it off the beach---they did, and drove both rudders,props, shafts and struts up thru the bottom of the boat. They did get the boat to the slings at the boat yard (about 100 yards away, ,just before the boat went entirely under water. It went from a boat with a few scratches to a total loss. No worry--the insurance company paid for that: not Boat US tow boat! (I kept videos of this for the owner's insurance company). I had done a mini survey and photographed the boat before the attempted "salvage".

The sea is a very harsh mistress, and I would not--do not--depend on someone else coming to save my behind. Too many bad things can happen in a very short time. There are some very good tow boat skippers, and a few who are not so good.

As for 5 to 6 knots--I have done many many thousands of miles at sea going that speed--not a bad way to travel! I guess it just depends on your philosophy of boating and life.

That reminds me--I have to finish updating my "bug out bag"--which goes with me in the boat and car all of the time.....self reliance is still necessary in todays world. Agree on the situational awareness--that is a very high priority. Especially in these dangerous times.

 

[C-Nile]

I agree with you Bob about many things. My thought process is about risk mitigation. Risk mitigation is not necessarily a singular step one can take, but rather a multitude of preventive actions. My point from the beginning has been aligned with yours in that a second motor -- whether it be an auxiliary or second motor in a twin-motor setup, is excellent insurance, along with good maintenance, safety equipment (including adequate rode and anchor) and some spare parts and tools on board (within reason.) To me, a Sea Towing service is an additional step at risk mitigation if the organization is competent. I can tell you from personal experience that Seatow personnel along the Old Saybrook/Mystic Connecticut shorline are very professional, with year's of experience. One fine young man who helped us, for example, had been trained in the Coast Guard. We were also towed by the Manager of the Mystic area, and he was also very highly professional and competent. I simply cannot speak more highly of these people from having been on the receiving end of their excellent, professional services. And like I stated previously, I see them towing a lot of boats out on the Sound. So I'm sure there are a lot of horror stories out there, including your own, but this should not prevent people from using a good service so long as they do their homework first.

As for me -- I will continue to use Seatow as part of my overall risk mitigation effort.

Rich

 

[Roscoe]

Only slighty off topic, we have had twins all along, but when we bought C for Two new the only engines they could get quickly were Suzuki 40s. What a mistake. With only a little more than 200 hours on them, they both started overheating at random times. Had to replace them last summer, which cost us a lot of money and much of the summer, which in Maine is short anyway. We now have Yamaha 50s, which already sound better than the Suzukis ever did. We do think our experience was a fluke, and still believe two engines are better than one. Can't wait for next summer.

 

[Yellowstone]

Folks, I really didn't think my comment would stir up this much reaction. But if you can grade yourself on all twenty (20) myths (if you cheat on word puzzles, don't bother), you may find getting a passing grade is difficult. I didn't. The most embarrassing myth I have honored religiously is the one one about not storing batteries on concrete. I have always searched for cardboard or carpet to rest the battery on. No longer!
Yellowstone.

 

[C-Nile]

Only slighty off topic, we have had twins all along, but when we bought C for Two new the only engines they could get quickly were Suzuki 40s. What a mistake. With only a little more than 200 hours on them, they both started overheating at random times. Had to replace them last summer, which cost us a lot of money and much of the summer, which in Maine is short anyway. We now have Yamaha 50s, which already sound better than the Suzukis ever did. We do think our experience was a fluke, and still believe two engines are better than one. Can't wait for next summer.

Other than our Suzuki wiring harness issue, our Suzuki 40 HP 4 stroke EFI was a very dependable engine. We put around 300 hours on it, and spent much of the time at around 5500 rpm. It was extremely loud, so we needed earplugs while running it. But to have problems with both engines, there must have been something else at work that caused them to overheat -- possibly in conjunction with the tandem configuration such a wrong prop pitch, cavitation or other factors? And as I'm sure you are aware, the Suzuki 40 is essentially a de-tuned 50. I'm surprised that you could not get this problem resolved in conjunction with your repair facility and Suzuki. For example, at the same time we bought our motor, another couple's Suzi 40 was issuing a loud squealing sound at times. Suzuki said no problem and replaced the engine gratis. I have to tell you that while the dealer told me this, it really made me see red, because five failures on the water was not enough to get a new engine for us. We felt unloved and unappreciated. Heck -- we would take that squealing noise any time over five failures; we had to use earplugs anyway. What a difference it was when we got the Honda BF115 -- it is so quiet that at times, we can barely hear it, and can actually have normal conversation.

Finally, in the interest of full disclosure, Mark from Weifings made mention that our Suzuki problem could have been a wiring harness issue month's before it was resolved. It's too bad Weifings is not in Connecticut; they seem to be a top rated dealer/repair facility.

Rich

 

[Roscoe]

We had a good mechanic try everything possible and he couldn't pinpoint the problem. He had thought it would be easy, and became more and more frustrated as the random overheating actually got worse. At some point it becomes just too expensive to keep looking. We were past warranty, and had heard that the mid-range Suzuki motors could be iffy anyway. We're just glad to have it behind us.

 

[starcrafttom]

Oh hell I might as well chine in.

I believe you are always on you own when on the water, the road, in the air or off the road so plan for it. kicker or twins ? Does not matter it service the same problem, Getting back to a safe harbor ( not your harbor). Or you have to have a means to stop your movement, anchor. I am amazed at the number of boats that never carry a anchor, just stupid act. I think that sea tow or another service is a good idea if all else fails but the chance of them getting to you in time with out a back up plan is not a chance I am willing to take.

All survival plans have steps. Steps that escalate as the danger escalates. So heres my boat survival plan. I have a kicker if the main goes south. I have a anchor so I can stop in safe water to fix the problem on the main. I have tools to fix the problem if I can. I still have a kicker to get home if I cant fix it. I have sea tow if I need it when all else fails. I have a dinghy and a ditch bag if it gets really bad really fast.
So whats your plan?

 

[1TUBERIDER]

Most of the commercial vessels used in commercial fishing out of our port and probably most ports are single engine setups. They are very reliable if maintained. They have also many fishermen buddies and they tend to help one another.

We do not have a tow service company in Crescent City. It would fail. We do have a well trained coast guard auxiliary who is ready to respond if conditions allow.
As I recall, it is your obligation to assist someone in need. You assist how ever you can but you do not leave people in need. Most times out I see others.

I would suggest that when you venture out besides required safety gear and a float plan left with someone who cares, have a vhf radio and a good anchor system. Even twins fail.

 

[journey on]

Well, mark that plastic proPulse failure up to experience and stupidity (on my part.) I had that happen about 5 years ago, used the small engine to get to a dock in Seymour Narrows and changed the prop.

I now run stainless, which has survived a few rocks. The stainless brings you home, the plastic shatters. The stupidity on my part was how I ever expected plastic to survive hitting anything, including the seaweed that broke it. Personally, I think plastic props should be outlawed.

I do agree that some form of backup propulsion should be on board any boat. Sailboats have sails and a motor, and my first powerboat has a main engine and an axillary. And I've been thrilled with that. In addition some other elements allow you to survive, such as good anchor equipment, metal props and radios.

Boris

 

[G Gallagher]

I have a main Honda engine (a big one 225 hp) and a Honda kicker( a small one 15 hp.) Both are extremely reliable, BUT, I figure that probably 80% of motor trouble is due to some form of gas trouble, usually water in the gas.

So... my solution is to carry a 3 gallon tank of fresh gas connected directly to my kicker. I use the kicker frequently for fishing so it stays fresh.

If I had trouble and both engines were connected to my main tank neither engine would work.

And that's my 2 cents worth.-

Oh, I swaped my C-Dory for a Hewescraft with an 85 gallon tank and that is why all the power.

 

[C-Nile]

I have a main Honda engine (a big one 225 hp) and a Honda kicker( a small one 15 hp.) Both are extremely reliable, BUT, I figure that probably 80% of motor trouble is due to some form of gas trouble, usually water in the gas.

So... my solution is to carry a 3 gallon tank of fresh gas connected directly to my kicker. I use the kicker frequently for fishing so it stays fresh.

If I had trouble and both engines were connected to my main tank neither engine would work.

And that's my 2 cents worth.-

Oh, I swaped my C-Dory for a Hewescraft with an 85 gallon tank and that is why all the power.

The three gallon tank is a great idea. I think I might do that next year, using storage level blue stabile that will extend the life of the gas for two years. Dr. Bob made this point a while ago, and you are certainly right about the gas. We all need to be careful that we know where we purchase fuel. One bad batch of gas can ruin our day real quick. Thanks.

Rich

 

[Chester]

Good primary fuel filters are mandatory IMO. The Racor filters with the see through bowls let you find issues ahead of time that might otherwise lead to breakdowns.

 

[hambone]

Good primary fuel filters are mandatory IMO. The Racor filters with the see through bowls let you find issues ahead of time that might otherwise lead to breakdowns.

Yep :thup