Setting my anchor troubles

S

South of Heaven

New member
I'm having a problem setting my anchor. I have a 16.5 lb plow style anchor and 25 feet of chain w/ 200 ft of rode (these measurements were from the previous owner, I never measured it).

So, the other day I was in maybe 10 feet of water or so. I dropped the anchor down until I thought it hit the seafloor and then let out about 20 feet or more of line. I then tied it off and went in reverse. Well, long story short I kept going in reverse for like 100 feet! I'm dragging the anchor...Why won't it set?

I'm aware that you're supposed to put out 6 times the depth of the water but I wasn't trying to setup anchorage overnight. I just wanted to test the anchor. Shouldn't 30 +feet of chain and line set me in 10 feet of water? The seafloor is weedy and sandy, no rocks.

What are most 25's using for their main anchor? Should I possibly upgrade my anchor or switch to a different style?

I also have a 8lb Danforth onboard for emergency's/backup.
 
If you are in 10 feet of water and put out 20 feet more, you don't have enough scope. You're forgetting that you have about 4-5 feet of distance from the water surface to the bow. so you really only have about a a 1:1.5 scope. You need to get the point of the anchor and the shaft laying on the bottom when you are backing down on the anchor. If you are backing slowly, maybe a 1:3 might work, but in a weedy bottom, I wouldn't expect a good hook up with less than a 1:5. Go back and try it again with 60 feet of chain out and you may have a different result.

And another thing, That "Plow anchor". Remember that a plow is designed to lift the substrate, lighten it and move through it. Yeah, I know the Delta has been around for a long time, but for this "old farm boy" the physics and logic of the "plow" never jibbed well for a rock solid sleep system. That is why I converted to a "spade".

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

0_CD_Cover_SlpyC_with_Classics_MBSP_2009_288.thumb.jpg
 
Ditto what Harvey said
Plus I'd move that anchor to a spare use. Way to small for you.
I run a 22 lb claw by Lewmar with 45 ft chain and 225 ft rode on a 22 and feel it's perfect, Many night's I'm anchored on chain
In our crowded anchorages I don't worry even at a 2-1 scope. Never more than 3 to one normally
We've sat thru 40 gusting 50 knots verified, in 20 ft deep with 75' out and not budged
One thing I like is not back down initially, figure depth plus height to roller times 2 or 3 and let that out, just coast back slowly in reverse and lay the gear out, snub it off and let everything sit never an issue unless I'm on rock so I move, in a bit add rode for expected tide change and be happy, at dark flip on the anchor light and snooze
If the owner picked the size of anchor out of a table in a marine store catalog, I assert it will be too small by at least one perhaps 3 sizes. If I had a 25 she'd run a 33lb Claw with 50 ft chain and 250 ft rode, she'll stay put mate. ::smiled George
 
more rode. In 10' of water your rig will probably need about 55' of rode out if the bottom isn't ideal, and sand/grass is not the best holding.

Doubling the chain might make your present anchor work a lot better. Otherwise I'd get myself a heavier anchor. I'm not sure about the 22lb lewmar claw, but the Delta Fast Set (a lewmar anchor, maybe the same thing?) in that size would be a good one. A true Danforth might work well too, they hold well on a variety of bottoms. Finally, a Fortress anchor is about as much holding per pound as you can get. a 16lb fortress would hold where your current 16 lb anchor will not.

Finally, I don't always power down on my anchor to set it. Especially on loose mud, sand bottoms I'll let the boat's drift come to a stop and once the anchor has grabbed on it's own, I'll back down a bit to set it, but I won't try to get the anchor set initially under power. That can cause the anchor to skip across the substrate.
 
A CQR is a good and well respected anchor. You need more chain that the 18 feet there. The 9/16 might work in your windlass, that you would have to check on.

Personally, the CQR is the same anchor as a Delta plow, except for the hinged shaft. They have been used well on cruising sailboats all over the world, but it is still a plow, the same physics as the farm plow. I'd be curious where it came from, and why it isn't hanging on a boat. Hummmmm, that owner just changed to a Vulcan or Rocna :wink: Why would I want his second best. An anchor is not boat jewelry, even if it is stainless or chromed. An anchor is insurance. No way around that. Not a place to skimp.

Best in your decisions.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

IMGP6704.thumb.jpg
 
Thanks everyone. Well, since the 2016 season in New England is winding the last corner I'll probably wait until over the winter to make my decision anyway. Lots of time to research and make a choice. The problem is that it seems that there's several good options out there.
 
I would not go buy anything new yet. Not until you have tried to use your current equipment correctly. More rode out the better. I cant think of a reason you would not let out a 100ft everytime. Its just a 100 ft and you lose 5ft of that to the water and around ( JUST THROWING OUT A GUESS) another 10 in scope. So a 85 ft swing from center is nothing. I let out a 100 ft in any thing up to 20ft on my 22 which had 30 ft of chain. In the 27 I have 100ft of large chain. I just drop all of it and then back up real slow. never drag.
 
Depending upon the density of weedy bottom, that could be part of your problem as well. We have a delightful, protected anchorage on NW Lake Superior that we like to use. The water is 11-13' deep, but the bottom is covered in dense weeds that make it almost impossible to get a good anchor set. We have often dragged in the night, waking up very close to the rocky shores in morning.
 
South of Heaven":1lyxwdny said:
I'm having a problem setting my anchor. I have a 16.5 lb plow style anchor and 25 feet of chain w/ 200 ft of rode (these measurements were from the previous owner, I never measured it).

So, the other day I was in maybe 10 feet of water or so. I dropped the anchor down until I thought it hit the seafloor and then let out about 20 feet or more of line. I then tied it off and went in reverse. Well, long story short I kept going in reverse for like 100 feet! I'm dragging the anchor...Why won't it set?

I'm aware that you're supposed to put out 6 times the depth of the water but I wasn't trying to setup anchorage overnight. I just wanted to test the anchor. Shouldn't 30 +feet of chain and line set me in 10 feet of water? The seafloor is weedy and sandy, no rocks.

What are most 25's using for their main anchor? Should I possibly upgrade my anchor or switch to a different style?

I also have a 8lb Danforth onboard for emergency's/backup.
Click to expand...


I use a 22# Lewmar claw style W/100' of 1/4" G3 chain, spliced to 400' of 1/2" triple braid.

As stated above, let out more line. :wink:

Have a good one!!
 
starcrafttom":2hibrk6o said:
I would not go buy anything new yet. Not until you have tried to use your current equipment correctly. More rode out the better. I cant think of a reason you would not let out a 100ft everytime. Its just a 100 ft and you lose 5ft of that to the water and around ( JUST THROWING OUT A GUESS) another 10 in scope. So a 85 ft swing from center is nothing. I let out a 100 ft in any thing up to 20ft on my 22 which had 30 ft of chain. In the 27 I have 100ft of large chain. I just drop all of it and then back up real slow. never drag.
Click to expand...

Yup, Ill let out more and try my current setup again. But it still seems like a 16.5lber is still small for a 25, right?
 
MOOSE":1ouqguoi said:
Depending upon the density of weedy bottom, that could be part of your problem as well. We have a delightful, protected anchorage on NW Lake Superior that we like to use. The water is 11-13' deep, but the bottom is covered in dense weeds that make it almost impossible to get a good anchor set. We have often dragged in the night, waking up very close to the rocky shores in morning.
Click to expand...

Moose, I grabbed this pix from your album.

BRM_2_Modifications.sized.jpg

It is the same Delta (plow) anchor I had for several years. It should hold. you didn't say how much chain you have or how much rode you put out before you consider yourself anchored. Think of it this way. If the anchor is just setting on the bottom, you are not really anchored, and especially in a weedy area, that might mean a long way before it sets.

There is no way I could go to sleep until I knew my anchor is set solid. for that to happen, and be sure, when backing down on the anchor, the boat will stop and the bow will pull down. I do this at above idle in reverse, about 1500 to 1800 rpm. The boat goes nowhere. Then I can sleep. If it was just a lunch hook drop, and I was on the boat, awake and keeping an eye out, but, if I'm dropping the hook, I want ot know I can trust it.

If that doesn't work, maybe going to a heavier anchor, or adding some weight (more chain) into the mix, or a kellet. Anything to keep the boat off the rocks.

Jason, I agree with Tom, don't buy anything until you have tried what you have properly. (Unless you are changing from a plow to a spade). It was on the boat, and maybe it was working before you got it. Obviously you may be in different conditions.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

JC_Lately_SleepyC_Flat_Blue_070.thumb.jpg
 
[quote

Yup, Ill let out more and try my current setup again. But it still seems like a 16.5lber is still small for a 25, right?[/quote]


In my opinion that is not enough anchor. I used to do just fine with 22# & 30' of chain. I added the 70' of chain so I could overnight in 10-20 feet of water on the chain only. :wink:
Have fun!!
 
Yes, as all of the others have said, in 10 feet of water, you need 15 x 7 to set reliably: Or about 100 feet of rode and chain.

The 16.5 is light for a C Dory 25. I used a genuine CQR (60 to 75#) to anchor my cruising sailboats. The rule of thumb for CQR (genuine) was that you needed at least 35# to get it to set. They are notoriously bad in grass. Best for grass is the old fisherman, or a Northill pattern. (The latter is one of the most common used anchors by fisherman thru the world.)

I stres "Genuine" because the copy of the CQR does not work as well by any means. The CQR is a older generation anchor--and today one is far better off picking one of the modern anchors--such as Manson Supreme or Ronca. I happen to be using a 10# "Boss" for an experiment, and it has worked very well--better than a Delta "Fast set" For your boat I would suggest one of two anchors, as the primary bow anchor, either the Manson Supreme in 25# or a Supermax (Probably the 22 would be OK--but the 33 is recommended for your size of boat.

Don't go "cheap" on anchors. There are many copies and variations of the common anchors. The only Danforth to buy is the High Test. Not the standard or the "hooker" etc The Fortress are copies of the original Danforth HT, and have the "T" shaped inner edge of the flukes and sharp blades of the flukes. This is what makes the difference.

You trust your life on an anchor in an emergency--and will pay accordingly.

If you have a windlass, then be sure that you have chain calibrated for that windlass. A 25 should have a windlass--every for a young guy like the OP. Must of the windlass fir the C Dory use High Test or G 4 1/4" chain. Most rodes are 1/2" 3 strand or 8 plait. The 8 plait will store in half the space of the 3 strand. I happen to carry 300' of 1/2" 8 plait and 50 feet of 1/4" HT chain in the C Dory22. You should have equal to that in the 25--you don't need larger rode until you are up to the 30 foot + range.
 
It is a good anchor and normally holds quite well. We have 20 feet of chain and I put out all the rode I can. The anchorage I describe, however, is a narrow cut between two islands and one can only put out so much of it to avoid swinging into shore. Having said that, in a lot of situations, given water depth and the amount of rode I can deploy, I'd be ok. But here the dense mat of weeds on the bottom has often confounded a firm anchor set, and especially a reset, if the wind shifts overnight.
 
The grass on the bottom can be a major factor. I use some anchorages in the early season before the eelgrass gets thick that I could trust a short scope in a gale. That same anchorage will have me drifting in a slight breeze or current once the eelgrass is thick.

Some anchors hold better in grass than others, and heavier anchors tend to do much much better in thick vegetation as their ability to hold is completely dependent on their ability to get to the bottom. Your plow will actually do pretty well here, or at least mine does, compared to my danforth.

But, I prefer to use anchorages that aren't so grassy, or more correctly, I like to use anchorages whose bottoms have good holding characteristics. I do anchor up in compromised areas, but am generally ready to deal with the issues that arise when I do and understand that when I set.
 
Been having good results with our Manson Supreme in a lot of different anchorages 25 lbs 50ft of chain 300 ft of rode. Others are way more expierenced on this topic ,but we kept hearing good things about this anchor so we use it and so far like it.
 
Chester":1meyl2qs said:
There is a fella with an epic anchor test thread with videos over at Sailing Anarchy.
http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index. ... 269&page=1

He has posted a compilation of his excellent videos that are very informative.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l59f-OjWoq0
Click to expand...

Two take aways from reviewing these videos again:
1: Genuine anchors are far better than imitations.

2. The Bruce is not as reliable as some of the other anchors. I realize that some folks have had very good luck with the Bruce. (especially in the PNW) I only tested it once--with a 22# Genuine Bruce, (which came off a sailboat which had drug onto a beach off S. Mexico, and was a total loss) in coral sand--using # 50 ST Cockpit winches, trying to pull a 65,000 lb motor sailor off a dock with a beam wind of about 20 knots--and I winched the Bruce anchor home 3 times--never set, even with a scope of over 10:1. I put out a 12# genuine HT Danforth at 7:1 scope, and winched the boat right off the dock, with only a few feet of drag before the initial full set.
 
Anchoring is somewhere between a science and art. So is selecting an anchor. Here are my thoughts about the anchors I've had, not all on a C-Dory.

Plow anchors: Well, they're called plow for a reason, shaped like a plow. And they do in mud or sand. I've had a CQR plow in both, fortunately I caught it first both times. In rocks, seaweed or grass once set, they hold.

Manson anchors: The latest and in the right place they work. With the sharp point and thin cross-section, they penetrate. I use mine in kelp and some rocks. Should work well in grass. They drag in pure sand or mud.

Bruce claw anchor: My general anchor, unless there's kelp or grass; then I go to a Manson or Danforth. Holds well in sand or mud, when the boat swings it resets.

Danforth anchor: The best anchor for holding and it's cheap. Holds in sand and mud, penetrates kelp and grass and snags rocks. Developed during WWII and still around. Hard to stow and not "modern". Got one and use it.

Fortress anchor: Aluminum version of Danforth which is it's blessing and downfall. An anchor needs weight to sink and set. I have one and it floated down and didn't set. Available to good home. Has mud paws to better set in mud by giving the flukes a bigger angle with the stock.

And now on to SCOPE. First, I have 50' of chain and 150' of rope. I never let out more then 60' of rode UNLESS the anchor refuses to set. Then I'll let out another 50' or so and try again. Anchor with 3-1 scope as a general rule which means I have to bring in some rode once its set. I used 5-1 scope once up in the North Channel during 35 mph winds, did a good job of holding.

The 3 things I look for in setting an anchor is 1) the water depth for 3-1 scope, 2) the type of bottom for the anchor type and 3) any junk on the bottom. I use enough chain and rope to give a good angle to setting the anchor (may be more than 3-1 but not often.) Oh, and I make Judy happy with the set.

As for anchor tests, they always seem to test them in sand. My feeling is that any anchor will hold in sand, try them in real anchorages with the wind blowing and the waves breaking. Try them in different bottoms: grass, kelp, mud and rock. Then tell me which is best.

Boris
 
Back
Top