Seat box on 16 delaminating

J

Jackie

New member
While fishing this weekend I threw some water in the boat to wash out blood and noticed that there was a crack running down the floor between the seat boxes. After a fast few seconds of total panic I inspected closely and saw it was at the edge of the port seat box where it is attached to the floor. The seat boxes in my Cruiser sit up a bit and are open in front (completely irritating, but that's another topic) and the crack is from where the box attaches toward the bow heading almost all the way to the stern end. I didn't have a camera or phone with me, but will get photos.

We bounced around some during the day and the crack really got more pronounced....the seat is coming up! I'm not sure if I'm asking for advice, or just venting right now. The boat is an '08 but only had 10 hours on it when I bought it. The kids used it this summer while I was gone but not too much, and even if it was used daily it seems crazy that the seat would be coming up already! What do you think?

As for advice....I guess I'm going to have to address the crack but not till I take it out of the water in a month or so. I've been very seriously contemplating putting side gas tanks in the gunnel like you can see in the album 'Navicula'. That was an Angler, but it should work in the Cruiser if I get the smaller tanks. I wish I could get even smaller ones - like 15 gal - but I think the 18 will work. The point is, if I do that install I will have to pull out the sides of the boat which will necessitate pulling the seat boxes as well, so I might as well wait to fix it then.

Does that seem reasonable? I haven't actually crawled around to really nail down what all needs to come up in order to get behind the side walls to install the tanks. On the angler that area is open so it is easier. If I can't/don't do the tanks then I will need to repair the lamination of seat box and floor. I'll ask for lots of advice once I get to that. My daughter and her husband just bought a house with a fabulous double garage. The house is OK, but I'm in love with the garage and they've said I can put the boat in there this winter and do all the modifications I want!

Thoughts, advice or comments are always welcome.

Jackie
 
I don't know how the seats on the 16 C are set in place, but several things come to mind--and I don't believe that you have a serious problem. In much of the wood/to hull attachments are "L" brackets, screwed into the core and the Decraguard or fiberglass. A proper attachment would be to "tab" the wood/glass into the bottom using fiberglass tape--at the time of build using polyester resin--later epoxy resin. Any screws which are in the bottom of these boats--especially if water gets in there , should be removed. The screw hole, filled, with thickened epoxy, and then either the screw put into the epoxy plug, or better yet, the seat secured with fiberglass tape.

Is there any chance that the boat was run hard, where you were not aboard? This might cause some flex of the bottom, and tend to separate the seats from the hull floor.
 
Hey,

I have a 2007 cruiser and I'm not very impressed with the way the seat boxes are installed. Especially since they are open in the front allowing water to get into the box when you wash down or if it ranis and everyone sits in the cabin making it bow heavy.

If you look under the boxes you'll notice it doesn't appear to be sealed with anything. This might possibly allow water to get in under the fiberglass and eventually lift it.

I used pvc lumber and sealant and closed off the openings in front of the boxes.

Good luck and be safe.
Spuncopper
 
If I understand correctly your openings face forward. I have an 09 and the openings face each other. Is mine different? They also have lower lip that thus has kept water out, but I did have a problem with water running under the cuddy where we store a lot of gear and at the same time there was not enough water in the cockpit to prime the bilge pump. Last winter I added a fiberglass barrier about 2 1/2 inches high at the back of the boxes to keep the water in the cockpit and allow the pump to get rid of it. Of course since I added the barrier I have not taken enough water to know how well it will work.
 
Hey Jackie Kiefer,

The access openings do face inboard so as to stow whatever you want/need, etc. with a lip to prevent water from entering.

I'm talking about the approx. 1/2" to 2 1/2" opening that faces forward at the base of the seat box that makes up a slightly raised area where you place your feet.

From what I can see the seat boxes were fiber glassed in place from the outside but were not sealed from the inside leaving an open seam for water intrusion.

I always carry a heavy duty absorbent sponge to dry the interior of the box whenever it rained while we were out or whenever I washed down the interior. Even after closing off that opening.

Take care and be safe.
Spuncopper
 
Jack, Spuncopper explained it pretty well. I will get a photo. It is completely mystifying to me why the boxes have that opening forward. I can stick my hand in it quite easily. It is like the actual seat boxes are placed on top of a very short three sided box to raise them a bit, but that box is completely open at the front. Water that gets up to the bow flows back under the seat into the storage compartment. (Though I don't think it is open there. I'm not sure how it gets in...) There is a small hole at the rear inside corner of those compartments, but they are set about a half inch higher than the floor of the compartment so they don't fully drain it. The sponge is a definite necessity.

Closing the front up is a great idea, Spuncopper. Is 'Trex' a plastic wood like you're speaking of? As for the dam you built Jack, my son and I discussed doing just that as we were mopping water out. He thought it would get in the way, but I think you'd get used to stepping over it. If it fit right between the seat boxes at the stern it wouldn't really be too long and would stop that forward water movement pretty well. How have you liked it? Any problem adapting to it being there? What did you make it out of?

Thanks,

Jackie
 
I stopped at the storage area and looked at the our seat boxes. C-Dory must have changed the configuration before ours was built. We have no openings at the front of them and it appears they were molded into the foot rests on each side as they have no seams inside or out. They did have the drain holes at the inside of the rear corners and I plugged them when we put the barrier in to hold the water that can come over the sides in the cockpit. I don't ever recall having any water in the boxes. It all ran down the center aisle and under the bunk.
Guess we were lucky on this one.
 
Hey Jackie,

I used pvc lumber purchased from Lowe's. They have it in 1X2, 1X4, 1X6 & 1X8 Same dimensions as wood.

I don't have any drain holes at all.

Spuncopper
 
Hey Jack Keifer and Jackie,

I apologize for my brief answer last night but I was having computer issues. For whatever reason it took twenty minutes to write that answer!

Any who, I used pvc lumber purchased from Lowe's. I first heard about it on This Old House. It can be worked like wood and glued using the pvc primer and glue used for plumbing.

To install and seal the "dams" I used Locktite PL Marine Adhesive Sealant, again purchased at Lowe's. It works like the 3M products, it's cheaper and readily available. It adheres to fiberglass, wood, aluminum, stainless steel and pvc. It's fast curing. So far it's worked and it's stayed dry inside the seat boxes.

And just for general FYI-isms, I have used Locktite's Marine Epoxy, once again, purchased at Lowe's. I carry a kit in my toolbox as it can be used underwater (so they say).

Jackie, I'm glad C Dory must have closed off that opening. It was a pain in the rear.

Take care and be safe.
Spuncopper
 
The PVC lumber at Lowes is Azec brand. I've used it a lot. You can buy Azec brand glue, which I would recommend. No primer required and makes an almost invisible bond if your cuts are accurate. I used it for my battery shelf inside the seat boxes and wanted to make sure it was solid and would hold 140#. I built a mock up, waited for the glue to dry, and whacked it with a hammer. Even though there were no mechanical fastenings, the glue area held and I split apart the PVC board.

I still don't have a clear understanding of your seat boxes. Mine have the openings facing each other. The cockpit coaming/seat boxes originally had a dribble of sealant along the bottom that could hold water inside the box. When I removed the boxes I cleaned up the remains of the sealant so that the water would drain out. I don't have any problem with water getting in, but if I did, I think that I would simply make an Azec shelf to fit the box. That would provide a PVC "liner" on the bottom of the seat boxes that would be at least an inch off the cockpit floor.

I made something similar as a shelf inside the captain's seat box.

Mark

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album2491/102_0714.jpg
 
I use the same PVC lumber as Mark and it works great for many projects on the boat with worries about moisture.

Good luck on the seat box improvements,

Greg
 
Hey Marco Flamingo

I used the pvc lumber the same way, as a battery shelf under my port seat and as a 'dam' to stop water from getting into the seat boxes.

My seat boxes have the access opening on the inboard sides and about a two inch lip. At the forward part of the seat box where it drops down and makes up the raised deck where your feet rest; I have (had) an opening that tapers with the hull toward the center line to the inboard edge of the seat box.

When we are anchored out and it rains and with two people sitting up in the cabin my boat is bow heavy. Rain water will run up under the bunk and into the seat boxes through that opening. There are no drain holes in my seat boxes. I closed off that opening with the pvc lumber. Hope my explanation helps. Apparently not all the 16 cruisers have this.

My boat is a 2007 and I've found several indicators that pretty much tells me my boat was built by one of the manufacturers that was attempting to mass produce these like Bayliners. This would include finding galvanized washers used on the aft cleats instead of stainless steel, the inside starboard side of the cabin is 3/4 inch higher than the port side and the port seat box is aft by 3/4 inch compared to the starboard side.

I can't make a pattern and expect it to fit in the same place on the opposite side on the inside of the boat. Not to mention finding dirty hand prints where the worker wasn't wearing gloves when the seam sealants were applied. (I wonder if he/she was wearing a respirator or other protective gear?) I could lift his/her prints if I needed to. There are a few more indicators that the boat was built as fast as possible with no quality assurance. I'm working through these and learning. It is a fun economical boat and it is overall rugged.

I'm impressed with your albums! You have given me many good ideas! My wife cringes when I show her one of your projects.

Take care and be safe.
Spuncopper
 
Hey Guys,

I've posted a picture of the port side CD 16 seat box dam. I would post it here, but... don't see the add attachments icon... so have a look at my albums.

Spuncopper
 
My seat boxes have the same forward facing opening under the footrests. It hasn't been a problem. In fact, having them open is useful. The prior owner had two canoe paddles on board. He slipped the paddles forward under the V berth and then put the handles back under the footrest. It held nice long canoe paddles very securely and completely out of the way. I do the same, except my paddle is also my fishing net. https://www.amazon.com/Frabill-3599-Hiber-Net-Accessory-Paddle/dp/B0084EESQQ. Everything on a 16 has to have a dual purpose (or more).

I've used that area for fishing poles. The poles might end up underfoot, but I've modified my footrests (using leftover Azec) so that isn't a problem. Because my new suspension seats are three inches higher than stock, I made a raised sloped footrest and can no longer stick my feet down into that area. No photos of that modification yet.

Mark
 
Hey Marco Flamingo,

I use to carry a paddle stowed that same way. However, whenever I washed down the interior or if we got caught in a heavy rain I ended up with water under the seat box. This required me pulling out everything and sponging it out each time. Since I've added another battery under the port seat I sure didn't want to have to pull it out with every rain. And since I can't be sure water isn't infiltrating under the seams I put the 'dams' in.

We've sat through a number of heavy summer rain storms here in SC and I had one where we had water an ankle deep in the cabin area. Once the rain stopped I waded aft so the bilge pump would kick in. This was with the Bimini top up. The rain was heavy enough that all you could see was the bow and the stern, everything else was rain; straight, hard pounding rain (warm though).

Be safe, Spuncopper
 
Thanks everyone for the info on the PVC wood. I'll have to see what our one local hardware store carries, but they are good about ordering if they don't have it.

I love the seat box dam, Spuncopper. Mine is open like yours was and that is what I need. But if I remove everything to add the side gas tanks I could fabricate a fiberglass flap on the front - like the sides are - and make it waterproof then. I'm also a bit concerned about the flotation I'd be removing with the tank addition and thought I could use some of it to fill the under-footrest voids before closing them. It would really be a nearly negligible amount, but it can't hurt!

Here is a photo of the crack from the front showing the opening also. I put more photos in my album if anyone cares to see what it looks like all round the seatbox. I think because it isn't sealed on the inside at all that, as someone else mentioned, that let the water weaken the bond. And, yes, my kids very likely rode it hard and put it away wet (as we say on the farm). I can see them bouncing enough to work it loose, especially when you note how badly it was put together.
crack_from_front.thumb.jpg
 
Hey Jackie,

Check out Marco Flamingo's, Limpet album and his gas tank installation. Plenty of gas and located on the centerline. Neat installation!

Spuncopper
 
I'll bother you one more time Jackie, just an additional thought here.

I would've had heart palpitations if I had that. Being in Alaska, if water had infiltrated into the seams there might have also been freeze heaving at work.

Spuncopper
 
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