Seasport rumor

I heard a rumor similar to what Harvey mentioned while at the boat show, also from a trusted source. However, it applied to Ranger vs. C-Dory boats - not Sea Sport vs. C-Dory. That is, that a Ranger R25 takes significantly less man-hours to build than a C-Dory 22/25.

And...let's just say, the source was pretty familiar with both brands. :mrgreen:
 
sjboysen":2dhrt280 said:
Harvey,

Whom ever your confidential source is they are unfortunately incorrect, the average time a 24' XL Seasport takes us to build is approximately 675 man hours, the equivilant 25' cruiser takes approximately 500 man hours to build. The main build difference is how we construct the internal components, each Sea Sport interior is stick built in our woodshop prior to lamination even beginning, then the parts are encapsulated in binderless chop, installed in the hull and finally at every contact point on the hull they are glassed into place, while a C-Dory at this present time is a molded interior.

Now, there seems to be a lot of conjecture going on right now which isn't good for anybody, all we are doing is consolidating business's and opening a parent company that will harbor and protect all companies involved. This will make for better brand management, allowing us to maintain each brands individual charateristics that make them unique, and offer better service to both customers and dealers alike. Those that have spent the time to interact with us here know that we are and will continue to build each line stronger and better than before, utilizing cutting edge techniques like resin infusion and more durable materials like Divinicyl cores. This will enhance the value of existing product, and provide new customers with a stronger more durable product, no matter what brand you are looking at.

I appreciate everybody's questions and comments and please don't hesitate to send whatever thoughts that you might have directly to me.

Scott Boysen
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Scott, thanks for the clarification. We sure would like to hear more (and more often) from you folks at the factory...
 
in Harveys defence, it seems to be a lot tougher to get reliable information from sources since waterboarding has gone out of style :)
 
Scott,
Not to be combative but as a few have mentioned on other threads the factory could provide a little more in the way of news with the facts as changes or news worthy events occuring concerning the brand. This might help combat the conjecture. Just thinking that keeping the C-brats a little more in the loop might be good for your business. I mean if your not selling that many boats you certainly have the time for a little P.R. You would not have to do this directly but thru the dealers or Harvey. Just a thought!
D.D.
 
Dave,

I appreciate your input, thank you. Please bear in mind that even though there may not be lots of sales, we are not just sitting around, we have scaled back accordingly and are just as busy now as we were 4 years ago.

As you get to know us, you will find first and foremost that we are boatbuilders and the majority of our time and energy is on the betterment of the product lines, that is what makes the C-brats site so invaluable. Not necessarily from our daily, weekly or monthly input, but more importantly from the new and past input from owners like yourself that I read weekly.
I will do my best to input more often, but please have patience as we tie up our loose ends so that we can progress forward.

Thanks again Dave for your input and don't hesitate to contact me at anytime.

Sincerely,


Scott Boysen
 
First and foremost:

Scott, Thanks you for your post correcting my continuation of the Sea Sport Rumor. Your visit here and informational posts are most welcome, and I for one, look forward to them. My most sincere apology for not having more correct facts. AT any rate, I'm most interested in that you and your crew succeed in your craft, building and selling boats. I believe we will benefit from what benefits you. I may have not had the right numbers, but the message is still the same. We (C-Brats) need to support you the manufacture, and the dealers, in order to keep C-Dory successful. :hug :hug2

Dave, Is my time out up yet? Glad I could foul up the "Rumor" thread and get some actual facts out into the open. :crook

DaNag, Hey, Isn't that the name of the Rumor Game? Sorry if I didn't play right. WOW, Ranger, really? :embarrased

Ken, There is still sodium pentothal isn't there :twisted: :thup

C-Brats, let's shake hands and come out smiling :) :D :lol:

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
I'm not going to try rumors, which will be a change, but lets look at the hours to build a boat, which fascinates me.

We have two items we can count on: It takes 675 hrs to build a SeaSport abd 500 hrs to build a C-Dory. That's 35% more for fairly similar boats, so why?. Not sure of all the differences, but:
C-Dory is a flat hull, SeaSport is a v-hull
C-Dory is an outboard (no motor,) SeaSport is an inboard.
My guess is that interiors are similar, with SeaSport having a slightly better interior finish.

2000 hrs is a man-year. So we're talking about 3-4 months of work, so 35% is a man month. which is not insignificant.

Ranger vs C-Dory:
Ranger has a displacement hull, which may be somewhat similar to C-Dory
Ranger is an inboard boat, with a diesel.
Ranger has a great interior, a lot fancier than C-Dory.
The deck and cabin for Ranger is fancier than C-Dory, i.e., more complex.

Both SeaSport and Ranger are good at manufacturing boats. Both have a lot of background. So manufacturing techniques can't be that much different.

So without having a "knowledgeable source" my question is: why would Ranger take less manhours? Could it be outsourced parts vs in-house manufacture? Bookkeeping?

Labor is money. How can Ranger cost twice as much, and take less labor? the weight difference isn't that much, so materials can't cost twice as much.

Boris
 
the cost of anything has very little to do with what it cost to make. yeah you have to cover your build cost but it does not drive the price. the market has always driven the price and the price is what every the market will bear. does not matter if its houses or coffee. a local builder was selling a house two years ago for 400k, he went under and the remaining lots where sold to another builder who is now selling the same house for 200k. Why? because that is all the market will bear now.( real numbers of a local listing just rounded off)

It cost all most the same to build the house now as it did then. just less profit now because the market will not allow for more. Same goes for coffee. starbucks sells coffee for 5.00 a cup, and people pay it. they have a 400% mark up. mc donalds sells it for a buck. if you ( i dont drink the devils brew) would stop lining up for 5 dollar coffee the price would drop.

Same goes for boats. cost of materials plus what the market will allow.
 
And, Tom, as you have pointed out here several times, SeaSport is perceived as a premium brand, and as such the factory can justifiably charge (and get) more -- just like Starbucks, Nordic Tug, BMW, etc.

Warren
 
Hardee,
Just taking advantage or your situation for some humor at your expense. You can come out of the corner now. I have to commend you for bustin Scott out of the box. We're good, I know you only meant the best for S.S.
Scott,
I in no way meant to imply you folks we're twiddling your thumbs, but without the factory input gossip sometimes feeds on itself. It would be great if information about changes in marketing and to your products could be available to the dealers and to the C-Brats. I'm sure you have you hands full, but it doesn't take much to feed us. I don't think the C-Brat Nation wants the factory to bow down to us but more to take advantage of the sales and positive public relations machine we can all represent. We get comments, compliments and questions from bystanders at docks and launch ramps all the time. Keeping us informed only makes things better for the brand. I know some us (me) can be a little; shall I say overbearing but we mean well. Keeping us informed in a positive way empowers us to help you. It's winter time and most are cooped up with cabin fever and I was trying to add some of my own brand of east coast humor which can seem hurtful or harsh at times. I do apologize if I offended anyone. I can't speak for everyone but I appreciate the factory caring about what we can do and keeping us informed so we can help the brand survive the economic meltdown the country is currently experiencing. Keep up us in the loop, we will try to sell some boats for you.
D.D.
 
starcrafttom":28ea7kyh said:
. . . the cost of anything has very little to do with what it cost to make. . . the price is what every the market will bear . . .
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True enough in the short haul. Over time, however, price is tied to cost, just as stock is tied to value. (Remember the "new economy" where the Dow was headed to 40K?) If price doesn't cover cost over time, the business will fail. On the other hand, if price exceeds cost by more than whatever the investment market dictates, dollars will flow to producing things that make a lot of money, and away from things that don't. The attendant increase in supply of high-profit margin items will, of course, tend to drive the price and the profit margin down until some sort of equilibrium is reached again.

I haven't a clue what it costs to build these boats in comparative or absolute terms. I know even less about what logistical, marketing or financial challenges SS may be facing.

Let's wish SS the best of luck over the short and long haul and continue to spread the word about some pretty cool boats.
 
Perhaps folks should check out "rumors" with the horses mouth before posting them on the web site. It would have been too easy to call Sea Sport and ask the question(s). What's going on with your business? I've heard rumors???? I'm certain they would have gladly answered any and all questions.
Ken aka: Wood Duck
 
I got a phone call with some questions, so I want to be very clear here:

C-Dory boats WILL NOT be available factory direct. There is an existing dealer network available for this product line, and Sea Sport intends to continue working through the dealers.

I hope this clears up any confusion or misunderstanding.
 
starcrafttom":1oma7pg1 said:
the cost of anything has very little to do with what it cost to make. yeah you have to cover your build cost but it does not drive the price. the market has always driven the price and the price is what every the market will bear. does not matter if its houses or coffee. <stuff clipped>
Same goes for boats. cost of materials plus what the market will allow.
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True to some extent but it really depends on how competitive the market is. In truly competitive markets, price is usually very tightly coupled to cost to produce + a small profit. When one looks at the price for a C-Dory 25 hull and considers that there's 500 man hours in it + materials + factory costs + marketing + management + incidentals AND one thinks about what a skilled laborer should cost (remember to include the cost of Soc. Sec., insurance, L&I etc - a skilled worker actually costs me 1.5 - 1.9x their actual gross salary), it seems to me that the price is about right. E.g. enough to cover costs + a reasonable profit.
 
Scott,
I would love to give you a call, however the phone number listed on both web sites is no longer in service. Do you have a contact number that works?
 
Dave, again makes a very valid observation: The best salesmen for your product (C Dory) is the owners. We are all frequently asked about the boats. I believe that the owner network and getting these boats on the road and water is worth more than any other form of advertising.

There isn't any boat builder getting "rich" in todays world! Quality is there because of good workmanship and materials. This costs more. I don't believe that there is much "hype" factor in boats--even Nordhavn's or Grand Banks (consider their advertising and staffing budget). Many of the premium builders have gone out of business.
 
Matt Gurnsey":rlgkoe34 said:
Go to the Sea Sport web site. Contact numbers are there.
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The number at the Sea Sport site is new, since yesterday - it also lists "Triton Marine Industries" below it, which was not there previously.

The number turtleblues presumably tried, was 360-733-3380 - the number previously used by SeaSport, that was on their web site yesterday. That number is still listed at the C-Dory web site as of now, and is indeed disconnected.
 
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