Sea Sport Acquisition

Face it, Marvin. A warranty - any warranty - is basically an insurance policy. Whether the factory carries it and builds it into the price or it's an aftermarket item, it is a way to share the cost of fixing a problem, and the aftermarket warranties and extended warranties are pretty expensive. They have major fine print cop out clauses, and by their very nature have large built in profit margins the consumer must pay.

So analyze the big picture. In the last 6 years only one C-Dory on this site had major warranty issues. Boat replacement size issues! He was the exception to the rule and what percentage does he represent? What are the odds that you'll face the same problem? Or any problem that cost more than the warranty would cost?

Not having a warranty on a new C-Dory wouldn't scare me away one bit. Remember, it's a simple boat. A thorough pre-purchase inspection by a knowledgable C-Dory owner would likely uncover anything I need to worry about. Remember, the engine, electronics, stove and trailer are covered separately. It's only the hull that is really "covered" by the manufacturer.

Don
 
Don I agree with everything you are saying but I just can't see a first time buyer paying $50,000 or more for a new boat without a hull warranty. I hope I'm wrong.
 
I was part of a long discussion on warranties earlier this year. Jeff's only reply to me was that they bought the future boats but would do nothing for those of us who bought from the original owners. I still think it is poor business but there is no changing his mind on that one. It is a shame since it puts the brand in doubt.

I will tell a story though that relates to Diamond Sea Glaze, the company that made the windows on my C. After getting back to the dock one day about a month ago, I closed the window on the port side and the handle fell in the water. For about a week I tried to fish it out but no luck on that one.

I looked up Diamond Sea Glaze on the internet and emailed them with a photo of the handle and asking where I could get a replacement. The sales manager emailed me back and said he would send me two replacements. He did and I put the one on and have a spare if I have another problem.

That was customer service and showed they really care for customers. Jeff is looking out for his company and that is good but what about the dealers that are left with product. He isn't helping them at all. I spoke my piece a few times and got no where but at least I had a good experience with the window company.

My opinion, don't hold your breath until they build a C-Dory. If ever it will be a long time. I would want to see how they do before I would go there again and the same for any other boats they build.
 
I essentially bought a new 07 C-dory 22 with no warranty; the boat had just 30 hours on the motor. I would do it again without hesitation on a brand new one especially if there’s significant savings on last year’s modals.
But that’s just me; I can totally understand someone’s hesitation in purchasing a mid to upper 5 figure boat with no factory warranty on the hull.
 
What's interesting Hank is your exact opposit experience with Diamond SeaGlaze from ours- We are replacing three windows on a 2009 boat that they weren't interested in looking at to see if they are manufacturing defects.

It is possible that the windows were damaged at the plant- it happens. But we aren't window experts, and can't make that call. I had hoped that Diamond would be willing to step up and offer some help. No such luck. And with Fluid gone, there is no one to fall back on, so our dealership is eating the cost of the repair. We sold it, we stand behind it.

Your boat is now 3-4 years old. If you haven't had a warranty issue on your hull, I would venture that you never will have.

But for those that must have a warranty, we will gladly order a 2010 Sea Sport built boat for them. Just don't expect to buy it for the same price that's posted on our remaining 2009's.
 
I'm not sure where this thread is going. For months now, it's been discussed that Sea Sport will not warranty hulls they haven't built. In two threads. We can keep discussing it until everyone is through, but there is still no warranty, except what the dealer will do. No-one seems to have a specific problem with hull issues though.

Matt's right: you can get one with a warranty. It'll just cost more. Want to discuss that?

As for Diamond Glaze, I've had a bunch of handles fall off. And Diamond Glaze will sell me all I can use, complete with shipping and tariff. And they still can't tell me what's going wrong, or how to fix it.

Boris
 
Two actually, Uncle Don - Fishtales Roger and the late CatyMae...not that it changes your point.


Sneaks":1ex02xgs said:
In the last 6 years only one C-Dory on this site had major warranty issues. Boat replacement size issues!
Don
 
journey on":19mt9txb said:
I'm not sure where this thread is going. For months now, it's been discussed that Sea Sport will not warranty hulls they haven't built....

Hi Boris,
It's a bit of a rehash because the original poster asked about our feelings with Sea Sport acquiring C-Dory; feelings are mixed as a result of the warranty decision.
 
Hi Boris

Regarding your question on keeping the handles from falling off, I asked them how to do that. They said that I should get clear silicone caulk and put that in any place where their adhesive strip wasn't. I did that and it is on firm and tight. Hope that helps.
 
Back to sales. The depression of boat sales, often lasts much longer than the actual recession (which officially is "over"--tell that to folks who have lost their jobs). The 1982 recession in boat building, was a hang over from the mid to late 70's recession, which hit Calif. boat building perticularly hard. Also the stock market remained relitatively flat, and interest rates were very high. This current market was partly fueled by phantom wealth (houses inflated values, other investments and even income which was beyond the curve) The loose credit allowed many people to get into boats, who might not have even tried to buy a boat of that value in different times--and today. Many of these boats are on the auction block as repos, or being sold as short sales. Because of that, C Dory is probably positioned to do well. However, if there is really $5,000 to $15,000 price increase in each boat (translation to 10%) with stable oil prices (raw materials) and a relitatively open job market--that maybe beyond what people are willing to pay for the product.

As to problems with C Dories over the last 6 years (which covers the transition from the long time owners)--there have been far more serious problems that Don (Sneaks) notes. Some of those are chronicled in the forum; many are not, because owners had fear of de-valuing their boats. Problems included core replacement, bulkhead replacement, tabbing replacement, as well as the multiple issues with systems. True that the system components are waranteed, but take some of the problems with my Tom Cat 255 for example: The shower sump would not work--because someone had joined a #16 wire with # 10 wire, using a # 10/12 instead of a proper reducing crimp fitting. Some one disconnected the shower drain, so it drained into the bilge (maybe that was the "solution" for the non functioning shower sump). A number of the threaded fittings were put together with "Bostic"--a sealant not intended for this purpose, and thus leaked. Some threads were miss matched--again--workmanship issues--which should have been factory warantee--not a problem with a secondary manufacturers pump etc. Other areas which should have been properly sealed were not. The failure of the hyraulic steering--may have been due to air in the line--improper installation, or a defective pump--but the dealer sent out the technician to bleed the lines and install the new pump--I suspect that C Dory paid for that--and I know was instrumental in getting the repair done in a very timely manor. The leaking foreward hatch (too big a cutout, and improper sealant application, again was a workmanship defect--not a hatch problem. Since I fixed many of the problems of that boat myself, (due to the 30 mile voyage to a ramp, and then a 5 hour drive to the dealer each way)--that would not show up in the warantee claims--but how many of the owners have the skill sets to repair all of the problems which come along? I still have a problem with not being able to fill the stb fuel tank fully--I suspect that the vent tube is inserted too far into the tank. C Dory said to contact the tank builder--who denied that they had any liability with this issue. To remove the tank is major surgery, and I elect to live with the problem of somewhat reduced fuel capacity.

I don't know about the 2009 boats--and have not heard of any problems with them. But I know of at least one 2007 boat which had some very serious problems--and went back to the factory for many months--for major reconstruction--and it was not discussed on the forum.

How many boats had serious problems?--I know of at least several dozen in the last 6 years--and I am sure that there are more than that. It may well be normal for any builder to have these types of problems. I have several friends who purchased Nordhaven 47's--and had hundreds of hours of repairs done on 1.2 millon dollar boats. Maybe you can buy an extended warantee, like for a car RV or even a camera, but I suspect that it will not cover many of the problems which I have outlined.

It would go a long way for dealers selling the 2009 boats to step up and say that they will repair any problems which are found. If there aren't any problems, then there is no risk! I don't know how much leverage the dealers have with Sea Sport--but I suspect that it some, since the dealers must move the boats. If there is a badly defective boat--I would hope that the dealer and Sea Sport could at least work out a scheme for reasonable resolution of the problem.

I also understand that the dealers have a very considerable sum of money "invested" in the flooring of the boats and that they are at risk. Flooring has both dried up, and become more expensive, so the dealer faces a major problem. This is compounded by many almost new boats for sale at substantial reductions.
 
I would think SeaSport would have every motivation to assist with hull warranty issues, if for no other reason than to maintain goodwill and value of the property they just purchased. They didn't just buy molds, tooling, and intellectual property; they bought an icon that's based on honesty, simplicity and durability. They're not so foolish as to mishandle the C-Dory lineage and thereby upset the C-Brats. Like Bob says, if there are no real problems with the existing unsold inventory, then it should be a small thing to offer warranty assistance to purchasers. Cheers, Mike.
 
After the excellent long term service I had with my 1983 22' Classic I had no problem buying my present 26' C-dory.

It is a repossessed 2005 ProAngler C-Dory that I purchased in April off of E-Bay in Fla. with 139 hrs., no factory warranty, no dealer warranty and certainly no E-Bay warranty. It had a few "warts" on it but I have the ability and desire to repair things myself. To me that is part of owning a boat and a fun part. I started with a good boat that I had marine surveyed and just went for it. I had no manuals or paperwork for the boat or motor or electronics but have located quite a bit off of the net.
So far..............so good. I love that boat.
 
westward":3hbvr480 said:
I would think SeaSport would have every motivation to assist with hull warranty issues, if for no other reason than to maintain goodwill and value of the property they just purchased. They didn't just buy molds, tooling, and intellectual property; they bought an icon that's based on honesty, simplicity and durability. They're not so foolish as to mishandle the C-Dory lineage and thereby upset the C-Brats. Like Bob says, if there are no real problems with the existing unsold inventory, then it should be a small thing to offer warranty assistance to purchasers. Cheers, Mike.

Ha ha - one would think!

Sea Sport made it clear in an email response to another C-Brat that the factory warranties disappeared with the previous owners. This includes boats sitting in showrooms at dealerships.

I have to assume this was a business decision based management's assessment that the cost of abandoning current owners was less than the cost of honoring warranty claims. If Sea Sport really just bought the molds then they would be building boats with the Sea Sport logo. To be sure, one of the most valuable assets they bought was the brand equity that comes with C-Dory. My purchase of the flagship product (at the time) and my vocal presence online and on the dock contributes to that brand equity as it does with every other owner.

I was shocked there was not a unanimous response of disapproval.

Ha - I need to relax as I'm heading to the dentist for a cleaning...this topic hits a nerve with me as I worked hard to get a real warranty as a condition of my purchase.
 
If Sea Sport really just bought the molds then they would be building boats with the Sea Sport logo. To be sure, one of the most valuable assets they bought was the brand equity that comes with C-Dory

Exactly!! Very weak argument from Sea Sport.
 
I just got through reading "Boating Industry". This is a magazine oriented mostly toward dealers. They give sales stastics, profit margins, name the top 100 dealers each year; even give some customer satisfaction ratings etc. Much of the focus is making the dealership more effective.

Focal points were a brief comment from 22 industry leaders--from builders like Brunswick and Gemar, to large dealers, and even finance. The concesnsis is that the boating industry is in for at least another year of hard times. There was an interview with the new CEO of Navico--and he admitted that customer service was the weak point--there have been multiple posts on poor customer service (from especially Lowrance products), and that was changing, but with the down turn of sales, they had to cut support as well as other sectors.

The most interesting was a pannel discussion at the end. The essence was that a dealer needed to have enough money put aside to run the bare bones business (rent, flooring costs and minimal payrolls) for the next 12 months. This is hard if not almost impossible for many small dealers. Another interesting point was that before the late 60's there was always a turnover of boats because of the decay of wooden boats. Now there are still hundreds of thousands of boats built in the 70's which are still functional and being used (fiberglass and aluminum). This has decreased the demand for new boats. Finally, the moderator suggested that each segment of the industry draw up 3 scenerios: Best case, expected case and worse case--then throw away the first two and plan for worst case.

Another issue which came up several times, is that boat builders had been "pushing" boats on the dealers. We have certainly seen this with C Dory in the last 6 years. The "new reality" is that dealers have to lead and pull on the builders. That flooring costs, low sales, and high overhead does not allow the dealers to keep multiple boats in stock. However the suggestion was made, that each dealer (especially if they were involved in boat shows)--have a 2010 model of each series at the boat show. So can the dealers "pull" on Sea Sport? Along with this suggestion was that there will be more "made to order" boats. That a boat will not be started until there is an order and deposit in hand. However demo boats do have to be at the dealers for this to be effective.

The other question I have is how effective C Dory (generically used) has been in advertising? There were some nice pieces on "mini trawler" cruising--but that was about it. Each one of us is a salesman for the C Dory line--and it is unusual that we are not asked about the boats. I suspect that this is still one of the most effective sales tools available. The gatherings are also very effective tools--and to invite non C Dory owners to them is a good strategy.
 
Hi,
I'm sure Sea Sports sales are in the toliet with everyone elses. Sea Sports cost more than C-Dory's did. They are a different type of hull and being a deep v they require more horsepower and that in turn means more fuel, higher insurance, bigger tow vehicle, it's a vicious cycle. Sea Sport bought the C-Dory line because it's a cheaper boat, it's cheaper to power and run altogether. You can pull it with a mid size pickup or a mid size suv. It's a trailerable boat that doubles as a camper when on the road. It sells altogether different market of people looking to enjoy boating with out having to buy and feed a couple two hundred horse power engines. I have heard people go on about the the purchase and how Sea Sport doesn't owe anybody anything and I guess they don't. I don't owe Sea Sport anything either. I'm with the others that think it was a bone head move not provide a hull warranty on a product that according to most rarely had any problems. I think the one thing that Sea Sport does to build a better boat is to empoly a vacuum bagging process when they there build boats. I think they see more of a future building a C-Dory type marketing to aging baby boomers who have the money but are not looking for deep v go fast boats in general. I think they sold the C-Brats short by just blowing off the warranty issue altogether. I thought it was odd that the C-Brats were divided on this subject. I'll buy an east coast boat next time, something built in Maine. Did anyone ever notice east coast C-Dory's almost never show up on the random pic's on the home page. We must not be living right. :o
D.D.
 
Greetings,
Seems like some folks are trying to brow beat the fine management of Sea Sport into honoring warranties on boats they didn't build. Not honoring warranties on boats they didn't build seems very logical to me. Sea Sport has been manufacturing fine boats for decades and they will build fine C Dorys, too. They know how to build excellent products and make effective management decisions that are not stupid. Honoring warranties on products they had no control over during the manufacturing process would be stupid and that's not what the Sea Sport people are about. Taking responsibility for some one else's mistakes in the business world is a short cut to disaster. This topic has been discussed over & over. Time to bark up another tree?
Ken
 
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