Rules of the Road!

T

Tug

New member
Here is a question, today i was almost in a collision with a big boat operated by some guy with girls in bathing suits and would of been if i hadn't turned to avoid the near head-on collision. I am 100% sure in was in the right ( thats why i am asking here..) . I was returning to the marina . headed up-river with the red can on my right, at this particular spot there are two green cans and one red can. My understanding is that when headed downriver leaving the marina the boater stays on his left, that means to me the extreme left which would be to the right of the second green can from the red can.This boater ( see diagrams ) proceeded to navigate to the right of the first green can from the red can. One other thing of importance is that the distance between the red can and the first green can is marginal, there is really isn't alot of room.
I tried to illustrate what occurred in the two diagrams, i think the other boater was incorrect . Tug

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Guy got lost eyeballing the girls instead of oncoming traffic...happens every weekend 'round here...just part of the game...once, I can let it go..same guy twice..i get ugly. looks like he should have passed between the two greenies. Be grateful that you were on your gaurd yourself. I would rather be safe and damage free than right anyway. Evryone blows it once in a while...hey, he could be just one discourteous Fck. Get more of those every year. Newbies who know nothing of tradition and manners.Hey, ya got home safe..a successful voyage on any day.
 
One of the more important rules of the road is the "rule of tonnage". Its not in the Navigation Rules/Collision Regs. but it is important nonetheless. It means, basically that regardless of who is in the right, littler boats need to get away from bigger boats. Just like on the highway, that semi may be in the wrong but you're most unlikely to play chicken with him. It is endlessly frustrating to encounter incompetent and unsafe boaters but it is a fact of life. I just shrug and give them lots of room. (By the way the only time my props ever touched bottom was dodging a large Bayliner in a very narrow passage. Cost me two new props but cheap at the price.)
 
I don't know for sure, but seems strange to have a green can in the middle of a channel, and between a red and green pair. If I was heading out of the marina and saw that arrangement, I would probably stay between the red and green and disregard the second green to stbd.

Also, I am a firm believer in the rule Barry mentioned, called "Tonnage Rules" and it is also on the books as "Must do everything possible to avoid a collision, even if you are in the right"

Hate to break it to you, but this probably won't be the last breach of piloting etiquette you will ever be presented with.

:shock: :roll: :wink: :) :) :)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Ah yes, "Must do everything possible to avoid a collision, even if you are in the right" rule. Had one like that Wednesday. A 24 foot Grady was crossing from my port to starboard bow. "Holding Course" as per rules, I waited for him to change course or speed. He did nothing to alter either. Finally I cut all speed and he crossed about 30 feet in front of me. As he passed to my Starboard side he waved from the stern, no one was at the helm, and said sorry, "Autopilot."

Rather than let it spoil my day, I accepted the apology and realized here was a case were insisting on right of way would have resulted in a collision since Mr. Autopilot probably had limited knowledge of the rules and was also clearly in complete command. At least the owner apologized for the bad behavior of his Autopilot.

Ron
 
Harvey.......i think the idea behind the red can ,green can and another green can is to channel returning / upriver boat traffic to the extreme Starboard side of the river before the shipping channel narrow upriver to prevent undue boat traffic congestion. Tug
 
Yes, there are times when one just has to get out of the way because all the alternatives are much worse.

Worst case for us was on our return to Prince Rupert, BC via Venn Passage during our Canada-Southeast Alaska cruise in 2004. That passage can be confusing at the best of times & we entered it just as more than 50 fishing boats were coming the other way. It is several miles through with a lot of turns & markers and all through the passage the fishing boats we met were abreast, passing one another or in most ways imaginable taking all the room between the markers. So was forced numerous times to go completely out of the red & green marked route let alone the correct side. This was one or actually one of many in a very short period of time where just getting out of the way was the only alternative & it actually didn't even upset me all that much. Encountering that many wakes in close quarters after a very long rough crossing of the Dixon Entrance combined with smoke pouring out from one of the motors due to a charge coil burning out during the encounter with the fishing boats was much worse.

Jay
 
This is a very instructive thread. There is a reason, of course, that starboard running light is green, because the vessel approaching from the right has a green light. The port light is red which means of course, stop. But, as you point out, the "Sancho Panza Rule" takes precedence. 'Whether the stone hits the pitcher, or the pitcher hits the stone, it's bound to be bad for the pitcher.'
Thanks for posting.
 
That "Rule of Tonnage" can be explained easily: BIG boat eats little boat. You should see what I see everyday from the cruiseboats: I have been hit by other boats... while still tied to the dock! Kayaks and canoes pull right in front of us. Small powerboats have no clue and will cut right across our bow in an attempt to get to our port side, obviously thinking they are still driving their cars! :roll:

I use neutral and reverse a LOT while maneuvering through the marina, around the MANY rental boats, and getting out past the no wake buoys. I smile and wave a lot.

Of course the "best" rule is the one that states: avoid a collision. Even if the other guy is in the wrong, it's still up to you to avoid the collision.

And the best part of the day: you're on the water. 8)

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
hardee":2havksr6 said:
I don't know for sure, but seems strange to have a green can in the middle of a channel, and between a red and green pair. If I was heading out of the marina and saw that arrangement, I would probably stay between the red and green and disregard the second green to stbd.

:shock: :roll: :wink: :) :) :)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
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We have two green cans in our harbor...it they mark a split in the channel..east channel and west channel....or, South Norwalk and East Norwalk.
 
I agree that the 2nd Green can is confusing (although it sounds that "local" knowledge of its' reasoning is thought to be known...an "outsider" might not understand it).

I too would be more likely to pass between the red and middle green can thinking that it is certainly the desired channel and not willing to risk the confusion of the outer green can.

One other aspect that has not been discussed is "Rule 14 that power vessels proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i),as appropriate".
 
David is correct that Rule 14 applies:



Unless otherwise agreed [Inld] When two power-driven vessels are meeting on reciprocal or nearly reciprocal courses so as to involve risk of collision each shall alter her course to starboard so that each shall pass on the port side of the other.
(b) Such a situation shall be deemed to exist when a vessel sees the other ahead or nearly ahead and by night she could see the masthead lights of the other in a line or nearly in a line and/ [Intl] or both sidelights and by day she observes the corresponding aspect of the other vessel.

(c) When a vessel is in any doubt as to whether such a situation exists she shall assume that it does exist and act accordingly.

(d) Notwithstanding paragraph (a) of this Rule, a power-driven vessel operating on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. [Inld]


I assume that where you are located is one of the "Western Rivers". Generally vessels approaching head on, each goes to the Stb. so as to pass port to port.

Generally if an alternate passage is indicated there will be a buoy with red over green over red, or green over red green--the top color indicating the Preferred channel.

F. Junction Buoy (RED OVER GREEN): means two channels are coming together and you pass to the left of the buoy as you travel upstream.

G. Junction Buoy (GREEN OVER RED): means two channels are coming together and you should pass to the right of the buoy as you travel upstream.
 
Dave H":tyhca7xx said:
Some rights are worth dying for, the "right of way" isn't one of them!
Click to expand...

Absolutely! That is why Rule 17 states...."When for any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision"...."This Rule does not relieve the give-way vessel of her obligation to keep out of the way."

In lay terms.....it is the absolute responsibility of all skippers to operate their vessels in a manner to avoid collision, regardless of who is right or wrong. :wink
 
This isn't exacly on topic but it's about a bad boater that met a guy who wouldn't put up with it anymore. My latest BoatUS magazine has a great story about a guy who got waked in a no-wake zone. He got in his car and went to the next bridge in the bad boater's path, and parked in the middle until the bridge tender agreed to call the marine police.
 
bad boater are the reason for paint ball guns. I carried one last year for seals. Washington state law allows you to shoot seals with non penetrating projectiles if they are chasing your fish. its a big problem around the state. but I am going to start using mine in the marinas, fuel docks and boat ramps. Does no permanent damage and gets their attention right away.
 
Tom,
The paint ball gun was something I had considered when racing or against PWC's (or even one of those cans of fluroscent spray paint to mark the hull where there was a near collision....) But then I started considering the liability issues, and decided against it. You never know when some jerk will claim an injury or damage to his vessel..
 
I've a reputation for being able to put a razor edge on any knife.
I was talking kayaking with a fella and he was telling me how fun it would be to buzz me at high speed with his PWC. Told him go ahead but he should know that my paddle edges have been sharpened. His expression was priceless. :lol:
 
In NYC harbor waters and western LI Sound we get our fair share of rule situations and local, international,transient vessels of all sizes. I follow the rules as long as I am able. I learned quite a while back that on the water as well as in life you can be DEAD right. Although I am a firm, and I mean firm believer and one who practices maintaining course and speed as the stand on vessel, I will always yield if I wind up being DEAD right and common sense gives me a safe path. This includes boating as well as crossing a street as a pedestrian when I have legal right of way vs a vehicle. When I am threatened with a choice, maneuvering around the idiots I'd like to run off the road, crash my boat or car into or shoot, I will always arrest my impulses or annoyance. Abandoning a DEAD right confrontation where I am following the rule always trumps the rule if I can protect my skin, my family, and my property by yielding in the end.
 
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