Rough Ride?

[skiptowns98033]

I had similar concerns before buying Plan C a year ago. The determining factor for me was taking a ride in one. Barry and Patty took us out on C Cakes for an hour and showed us how the boat handled.

End of discussion -

If you're near the north end of Whidbey and want to go out, let me know.

Dan & Lori
Plan C

 

[swag]

I've been so impressed by you all...your knowledge, willingness to share experiences. Certain words and phrases have popped out and stayed with me...
...This has made my wife love boating....Sometimes a big boat is more a hindrance than a help. The nod has always gone to the skipper who can assess conditions and not ask for more than the dory was designed to do. Fuel economy is a major consideration, too.

And to those who said, 'It all depends on how you plan to use the boat,'"
We are 2 women north of 50, who have been boating since 1995 in Long Island Sound. Our boats were Sea Ray 33 and Blue Star 37. Lovely boats, but our shallow harbor was merciless on the props. We managed, though, losing half of each day waiting for tide to come in. NOW we want a much smaller, easier boat, the flatter bottom the better, allowing us to go out in good weather, watch sunsets and fireworks, cruise up rivers that have been closed to our bigger boats. Except for the lack of a head, the 22' dory would be perfect. We do like creature comforts!

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I finally got to do some actual sea trials with my new-to-me CD 16, and I can see the "they ride rough" argument. But it's really a "they can be made to ride rough" argument. Travelling at any speed and loading that presents the flat dory bottom to an oncoming wave, it's going to whack. WOT into whitecaps is going to shake loose screws out (I know), besides being really uncomfortable. You can slow down, you can trim the bow down, or you can shift weight forward, or all three.

On a 16, shifting the weight was interesting to test. My brother curled up into the V berth as far as possible and that shift of 160 pounds allowed increased speeds and comfort (within reason). Simple. I'm in the process of moving batteries forward and I'm looking into a permanent gas tank towards the bow. I know that it's possible to get too much weight forward in a boat, but I haven't read any posts yet where Brats have had that problem.

As others have noted, it all depends on what you want in a boat. In chop, I have to slow to 3,500 rpm (which also happens to be close to my best mpg). That doesn't appeal to those who equate boat performance with boat speed. For people who talk about their "hole shot" (a term that I just learned), the C-Dory simply isn't what they are looking for.

Mark
Limpet (I got a name, I got a name)

 

[Foggy]

SNIP I know that it's possible to get too much weight forward in a boat, but I haven't read any posts yet where Brats have had that problem. SNIP

What you want with weight distribution is balance so you can trim the boat to
conditions from the helm. Lower the V'd bow with tabs into seas to present a
shape conducive to parting waves rather than having them slam under the hull.
Raise the bow in larger following seas to avoid the bow digging in down the face
of a wave perhaps starting to broach. In between, trim to comfort.

SNIP For people who talk about their "hole shot" (a term that I just learned), the C-Dory simply isn't what they are looking for.

Au contraire mon ami. My C-Dory (C'est C Bon, 26' Venture, twin 90hp) comes out
of the hole like a scared rabbit going in a hole - something my deep V Saber (twin
V8 415hp) couldn't approach.

Aye.

 

[rogerbum]

<stuff clipped> Except for the lack of a head, the 22' dory would be perfect. We do like creature comforts!

Well with a CD25 or 26 you will still get most of the advantages of shallow draft and you get the head. You'll pay more for the boat and more in fuel and need a bigger tow vehicle. However, you gain room inside, a little better ride in chop and an enclosed pottie. It's really hard to find a boat under 24-25' that has an enclosed head so in general, if that's important, you're usually looking at a slightly larger boat.

 

[Marco Flamingo]

I just found that if I trimmed the boat by balancing the weight, I didn't need to trim as much using the motor or see any need for trim tabs. Yes, tabs can be used to correct a boat that is horribly out of balance, but at a cost. Not just the installation cost, but tabs correct improper balance by creating lift in the stern. Lifting the stern takes horsepower. HP takes gasoline. Trim tabs can increase economy over a boat that is out of balance and doesn't have tabs. I'm not sure that they can improve economy and performance over a boat that doesn't need tabs.

I also felt that shifting more weight to the front gave a better ride than trimming using the OB (I don't have tabs, although I think that some CD 16s do). My OB could be trimmed to hold the nose down and make for a better ride into chop, but adding some weight in the front seemed to work even better. More experimenting is required, although top speed into nasty seas isn't really my goal. As between speed and comfort, I now tend towards the latter.

>My C-Dory (C'est C Bon, 26' Venture, twin 90hp) comes out
of the hole like a scared rabbit going in a hole<

I understand the concept when starting out pulling a water skier. I've owned a lot of boats (all displacement hulls) so I hadn't even heard of the term.

Enclosed head - what's that?

Mark
Limpet

 

[colbysmith]

Regarding the head, the CD-22 does not come with an "enclosed" head. None the less, it does come with a Porta Potti, that most find sufficient. It is tucked away under the V-berth, but by day you can remove the center cushion for easy access. At night, we have curtains on our cabin, so we just move the potti back to by the entry door for those nature calls in the middle of the night.... As I mentioned earlier, I had a Searay 268 Sundancer. (26' cabin cruiser.) Yes, that boat had more room, and even an enclosed head (still fairly tight..), but weighed a lot more to tow (10,000 lbs) (The C-22 I have on an aluminum twin axle trailer weights 4800 lbs with the trailer). However, I find the Cdory much much more versatile and feel safer in it in big water/bad weather than I did in the SeaRay. I've had the C-dory in 18" water, and 6 foot waves. (not at the same time...lol). And there are others here that have experienced much more in the weather department. Now if I had the means and funds, I'd go for a Catamaran. But for me, someone that likes to travel to different bodies of water with my boat, and solo handle a lot, along with traveling with my wife, I have been quite pleased with the C-dory. Colby

 

[thataway]

On the subject of the head or portipotty--my first 1993 C D 22 had the head just a few inches back from the forward bulkhead. The 2006, which I now own, has it about 10" further forward--and this allows better privacy. Most all of the boats come with some curtain which gives privacy when using the head. We just throw a towel over the center part of the console, but have the curtain somewhere at home. What you gain in the 25, 26, Tom Cat 255, is a place to stand up, when you pull your pants back on…. vs having to do it in a sitting position. We don't find it that big of an inconvenience. We rarely if ever showered in our 25--just too cramped for Marie and myself. The Tom Cat 255 was just a few inches larger, and so it was possible.

We put the potty in the middle of the cabin vs the cockpit Mainly because we usually have a gear box, a freezer, a generator, and a ice chest in the cockpit (some of which double as seats, plus we don't always carry the camper back with us.

 

[rogerbum]

On my previous 22, I had an enclosure made in the cockpit that consisted of a piece of wrap around sunbrella that hung from the bottom of the camper back canvas. It zipped in on the starboard side and connected to the outside edge with snaps, it hung from the center rail in for the portion that ran port-to-starboard and velcro'd to the bulkhead on the port side (just starboard of the starboard edge of the cabin door). I piece of black screen fabric snapped over the starboard side window on the cabin bulkhead to prevent those from within the cabin from seeing in (but provided enough light so one could do their business). I liked this arrangement as I never wanted guys attempting to pee near where I put my head to sleep at night! Also, it served as an outside changing room if one needed more space to change and you could shower in it with a solar shower or similar. It's the second photo in my album.

 

[thataway]

Marck,
The issue is in getting too much weight in the bow--where when going down wind/seas, you put the bow down too much, and can experience bow steering or broaching--both of which can be serious, or even dangerous, if you cannot raise the bow.

Planing boats are far more susceptible to weight distribution and trim. However, on any boat, one prefers to keep weight out of the ends of the boat, since it will effect the ride and safety….

 

[johnr]

People are trying to convince us not to buy a 2008 C-Dory 2' Angler because they are claiming the ride will be too rough? Any advice from the forum? swag :?

I agree that a 2-foot C-dory would be a rough ride in any but the calmest of waters. :wink:

Seriously, I've had several people comment to me about the rough ride on C-dorys but not a single one of them had actually ever been on a C-dory.

 

[hardee]

First you have to figure out what purpose your boat is going to need to fill.... most of the time. Then find a boat that fits that need. It has been well covered here.

I have been in 8 - 10 foot aft quartering, following seas, (Glad I remembered how to surf), in Georgia Strait. I have crossed Juan de Fuca in 4-6 foot forward quartering seas, and I have crossed it in 3-5 foot beam seas. Was it rough? No, because I adapted the speed to the conditions. Was it fun? Let's just say it was challenging. Did I ever feel unsafe? No. Would I generally chose to be out in those conditions? Not really, but it was one of those situations like George mentioned, It was a schedule thing, it was doable, and the C-Dory could handle it. It is what I call a "Boat Ride". It was not boring, and it was not unsafe, but I have been on less challenging, and more peaceful crossings.

Watching conditions, and knowing your local waters make a huge difference in what you can and will do, and tolerate to accomplish your daily goal.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

 

[Kushtaka]

You get the picture, I think, that a CD22 will ride more slowly in chop than a deep v. That is the sole advantage of a deep v to me.

I boat in water that is nothing but chop, and sometimes that chop is on top of some nasty waves. I still did not choose a deep v. The CD22 is, pound for pound, the most seaworthy production boat available.

When things are very nasty you will find this boat to be vastly more controllable, responsive, and forgiving than any deep v boat out there. There is only a very small speed window where the boat wallows, it stays nicely at displacement up to about 7 knots, and only wallows up to about 10 knots when it begins to plane and is also quite stable. Most deep v boats are not super controllable at displacement speeds (twin engines can be), but wallow sometimes from 5 knots to 20 knots (generalizing!).

This means everything when you are in the worst conditions. I cannot tell you how much better it is to be in bad weather and be able to run on step at 10 knots. Most deep v hulls can't use speeds between 5 and 15 knots in very bad conditions, so they must go 5 knots or less.

These boats are very simple to operate, and are phenomenally seaworthy and easy on your pocket. If you can tolerate a little slower cruising speed you will gain a lot.

 

[T.R. Bauer]

I boat the same place you do and I couldn't agree more.....

You get the picture, I think, that a CD22 will ride more slowly in chop than a deep v. That is the sole advantage of a deep v to me.

I boat in water that is nothing but chop, and sometimes that chop is on top of some nasty waves. I still did not choose a deep v. The CD22 is, pound for pound, the most seaworthy production boat available.

When things are very nasty you will find this boat to be vastly more controllable, responsive, and forgiving than any deep v boat out there. There is only a very small speed window where the boat wallows, it stays nicely at displacement up to about 7 knots, and only wallows up to about 10 knots when it begins to plane and is also quite stable. Most deep v boats are not super controllable at displacement speeds (twin engines can be), but wallow sometimes from 5 knots to 20 knots (generalizing!).

This means everything when you are in the worst conditions. I cannot tell you how much better it is to be in bad weather and be able to run on step at 10 knots. Most deep v hulls can't use speeds between 5 and 15 knots in very bad conditions, so they must go 5 knots or less.

These boats are very simple to operate, and are phenomenally seaworthy and easy on your pocket. If you can tolerate a little slower cruising speed you will gain a lot.

 

[Jake]

You get the picture, I think, that a CD22 will ride more slowly in chop than a deep v. That is the sole advantage of a deep v to me.

I boat in water that is nothing but chop, and sometimes that chop is on top of some nasty waves. I still did not choose a deep v. The CD22 is, pound for pound, the most seaworthy production boat available.

When things are very nasty you will find this boat to be vastly more controllable, responsive, and forgiving than any deep v boat out there. There is only a very small speed window where the boat wallows, it stays nicely at displacement up to about 7 knots, and only wallows up to about 10 knots when it begins to plane and is also quite stable. Most deep v boats are not super controllable at displacement speeds (twin engines can be), but wallow sometimes from 5 knots to 20 knots (generalizing!).

This means everything when you are in the worst conditions. I cannot tell you how much better it is to be in bad weather and be able to run on step at 10 knots. Most deep v hulls can't use speeds between 5 and 15 knots in very bad conditions, so they must go 5 knots or less.

These boats are very simple to operate, and are phenomenally seaworthy and easy on your pocket. If you can tolerate a little slower cruising speed you will gain a lot.

Okay, so I have never been on a C Dory (or similar boat) but have read a lot on this forum and, in my opinion, the above post is the best comparison I have read. I think one conclusion you can draw is, if you normally boat at WOT, a C Dory will ride much rougher than a deep V. But if you boat at water/wave/wind conditional speeds, the C Dory rides quite well. And since my experience is with a deep V, I can attest to the statement that they do not do well between 5 and 15 knots in rough conditions. Thanks for posting Kushtaka.

 

[Kushtaka]

I might add one downside, albeit a very limited one, to a CD22.

If conditions dictate that you MUST run at a speed where the boat wallows (e.g. if you are in a heavy following sea and are trying to stay on the back of a wave that is moving at 8.5 knots) the CD is leading with a very flat portion of the hull and is going to pound like crazy. A deep V wallowing at this speed will likely have it's bow pointed higher, but will have plenty of bow deadrise (angle) to cut into the water.

Keep in mind that the CD22 only wallows over about a 3 knot range, and most deep Vs wallow for about a 10-15knot range, but if you simply must run in that 3 knot wallow window, you are in for some work in your CD22 that might be avoided in a deep v.