Rebuilding of a Honda BF40

B

bshillam

Member
Well I noticed some oil what looked like some lower end fluid leaking from one of the Hondas. Took it into the dealer where days later after my call he has informed me that the whole motor needs a rebuild. In the factory the rings were all lined up. They have promised me that no machining work is going to be done and the engine will be better than when it was new. Why now though? We've put over 100 reliable hours on this engine and I was surprised to hear this repair needs to be done. Anyone hear of such a thing or experienced this themselves?
:disgust
 
Nope! My two have over 800 hours each with only a carb rebuild due to bad fuel and some water pump replacements. the only way they would be better than new is if you could convert the hard, cold starting %$#^&% to fuel injection! Fluid from the lower unit is usually a sign of a leaking lower unit seal. Often that's due to fishing line being wound in there and not removed. Your guy's diagnosis sounds a little fishy to me.
 
If, as thay say the piston rings were installed with the end gaps lined up with each other about the only thing you would experiance is a lower compression in that cylinder and maybe a little more blowby. I dont know if Honda piston ring grooves are indexed so the rings will be staggered or not. But if they are it would be next to impossible to install rings wrong and still get the pistons in their bores. With higher crankcase pressure caused by the more blowby that could be motor oil being forced out of the crankcase vent.
Chuck
 
If My Heaven is a 2007, one can assume the engine is the same vintage. Isn't the engine under warranty? If they're blaming a factory screw up, tell em to go ahead, as long as it's free. If not call Honda.

I don't know what "no machining" means, but make sure they hone the cylinders when they put in new rings.

Boris
 
I have rebuilt dozens of engines and the whole ring lined up thing without taking it apart is very questionable. I am not here to slander your shop or mechanic, but I would get a second opinion if I were you to verify that you need is what they say you need.

From my experience, ring problems in all engines result in the engine making little power since they have lost their sealing power, have high oil consuption, and smoke a LOT. They also foul spark plugs and leak everywhere if they get bad enough due to the increased crankcase pressures. A compression test with leakdown will eliminate your powerhead and you could do it yourself if you bought the right tools.
 
Very difficult to say when not directly involved, but I would go for a second opinion. The condition you are describing would not likely come from the factory. If it did, I would fully expect warranty. I have not seen a Honda service bulletin describing basic powerhead assembly issues on any of their engines.

Good luck,

Randy
 
Rings move during normal service.... not uncommon.. and if all the ring grooves did line up, it just might burn some oil... all I think I would do is do an oil change... maybe add a bit of oil additive and run it.... the rings will move ....

You can monitor the movement of the rings by doing compression tests ..

When an engine has blow by (lining up of the rings would cause some)..the oil gets diluted some...so I sure would change the oil more often until the compression comes back up...

Joel Rapose
SEA3PO
30 year Auto Shop Teacher (ASE Master Mechanic)
Oxnard College
 
I agree with the prior posts, this sounds like total baloney to me. Take your motor to another shop and get their opinion. Have the next shop check the lower unit first to ensure there is no leak there. If there is no leak from the lower unit then have them remove the spark plugs and show them to you. If there is excessive blowby the plugs will look quite oily, have the shop run a compression check and tell us in the forum what the compression is in each cylinder. I suspect it is highly unlikely you have any powerhead, piston or ring problem. How many hours are on these motors? Does anybody know if you can do a leak down test on these engines?
 
Each engine has about 170 hours on them. And yes they are still covered under the extended Honda 5 year warranty. The shop hasn't told me there would be any cost involved so I am assuming that it is fully covered under the warranty. It's taken them three weeks to get in parts from Honda so I am a bit concerned. After all, if I took a Ford into the dealership it wouldn't take that long, even in the event of having to replace/rebuild the motor.
I'll be making some more calls next week to discuss their progress and ask to inspect the old parts. I'd like to think they know what they are doing and wouldn't want to do any unnecessary repairs just to bill Honda.
 
Bryrick,

I am assuming that you took this in to Sportcraft, and got the diagnosis there. I have only had good experience with their maintenance and credibility. That said, the description of the problem sounds a bit off. I would ask Ryan or Larry for a little more explanation of the what's wrong, why is it wrong, and why the leak appeared in the lower unit. My suspicion is that they are 100% accurate, but have not done a good job explaining the issue.


Steve
 
Take nothing for granted, make sure you understand everything before commiting. Then make them prove that the problem (if there really is one) has been taken care of properly.
My repair experiences with Sportcraft were not satisfactory at all.
 
I would guess that the dealer is right on, different senario but when Datsun came out with the two seater copy-cat of the MG after a few thousand miles idling at a light a cloud of blue smoke when i took off, but run fine other wise ... took it in and ask to have it check it out, fixed ... well!!

complete rebuild got it back carb's not in sync local dealer. Datsun's were not that poplar out this way run it in to a large dealer-ship told him to fix it would pay for the damn thing

big dealer in Van. told me to take it back to Abby well when the dust settled another complete rebuild from the dealer in Van. run like a charm

a little stretched but my point I'm beginning to think newer motors with low hours that have ring problems also have much deeper problems .. glad to hear its a complete rebuild ... wc
 
I agree with getting a second opinion. :shock:
At work, we got a rebuilt engine that had 3 of 8 cylinders with aligning rings. It ran fine but, it smoked a lot after a summer of service. There was no way to hone the cylinders with no machining. Years ago I bought the 1st Sea Beagle from my neighbor who had rebuilt the outdrive. It always left an oily rainbow on the water and got water in the lower unit. I tightened all of the bolts I could find and fixed the problem. Yours could be that simple as well. Also, as far as rings go, I used to own a couple of '70s Honda bikes and the pistons had pins to prevent the rings from spinning and provided fool-proof installation. Not sure how the marine engines are made but, that would seem to be still a good manufacturing process. Out where you live there are a lot of C-Brats, maybe you can find one who has some good knowledge to take a look at you motor.
 
Well, Seabeagle, those '70 Hondas were 2 strokes, and those pins were there to keep the ring ends from getting caught in the ports. And 2 strokes still use them, though I don't think Honda builds 2-strokes anymore.

Never found one of those pins in a 4-stroke though. I will admit I've never rebuilt an Oriental 4-stroke, and never plan to.

Boris
 
I have seen those indexing pins in the ring grooves on 4 stroke engines before. Cant recall what make of motors they were though. And dont know if Honda uses them.
Chuck
 
Hmmm... I had a 1969 Honda CD350, and it was a 4-stroke. As I recall, Yamaha and Suzuki made 2 strokes. Heck, I even had a '65 Honda 150 Dream before that... my 350 was "big iron." :wink:
 
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