Ranger Tug 21ec - My Observation!

IdleUp

New member
I went to the Norfolk boat show to tie-up a deal on the Ranger 21ec but after spending around 45 minutes in the boat, I decided to pass up the opportunity to own one of these little tugs – here’s a few reasons:
1) Small Cabin - The cabin is too small for anyone – I seldom go out by myself and with two people in the cabin, it’s too small and confining. Bring a McDonalds Hamburger and drink with you and leave the goofy stove and sink out of the boat. No one is going to cook and wash dishes in this boat – it’s a joke! Put a good second seat in the boat so a guy can convince his wife the 60 grand was well spent and she doesn’t have to sit on the stove while under way.
2) Seating problems – the helm seat is totally wrong for the boat – Ranger should have come up with a better device for folding the seat down – you have to almost touch you toes to grab the rod to erect the seat - then while bent completely over, you have to plug the support in – I can’t imagine doing this with any type of seas going on so generally speaking the seat is either up or down most of the time.
3) Knee Problem - When I finally got perched in the helm seat – my knee’s were jammed right up against the wheel – to make matters worse – when I looked down I found my wet dirty shoes (it was raining) sitting right on the birth cushion, put a damn foot rest on the boat.
4) Passenger seat - The passenger seat is a joke - unless you’re bringing a 75 lb teenager with you - the seat is almost un-useable. You have to babysit the seat bottom when lowering it to prevent a 250 lb person from crushing your stove. In addition, the foot-rest is entirely too high.
5) Poor Egress - You can’t get in the cabin – the helm seat almost closes off the entrance of the cabin – luckily, I’m pretty thin and I had to turn sideways and the seat still was up against me. The majority of people in the US cannot fit by that seat. To make matters worse – they used bent sharp stainless steel hinge - so now you have sharp metal edges up against your body and clothes!
6) Beam too narrow – make the damn boat with a 7ft beam – it would handle better, roll less (use the same trailer) and this would give you another foot of space in the cabin and allow a normal person to enter the cabin without doing bodily damage trying to get by the seat. In addition, this would open up the aft walk-around’s by the engine.
7) Engine totally wrong – Hey, this is the 20th century - people have places to go and a schedule even when they are out in the boat. Even if you have all day, you still would like to get where you’re going so you could sit in the boat and enjoy it. The slow speed severely limits your distance from port – I assure you, you’re going to get real tired of only going on short trips and seeing the same exact scenery because of the slow speed. Another problem is you have wind up the little engine to 2500-3000 rpm to even cruise – all the while listening to the racket while the little engine is busting it’s butt to maintain 8 mph. Most small trawlers can idle the engine and do 8 knots. I had a Mainship 30 with a 150 hp Cummins and it used less fuel at the same speed that the Ranger tug does and it was almost silent at high idle. Bottom line, the engine is WAY TO SMALL for the boat. Take those damn batteries out of the engine compartment and put a decent motor in the boat. There is no reason why any boat can’t do at least 15-20 mph. What if you have an emergency or a storm coming? Put a 50-75 hp engine in the boat and instead of turning 3000 rpm you can turn 1000-1500 use less fuel, and have less noise and a big smile on your face as you actually see the shore moving by you. For you guys who like to go slow, you can still do that and save even more fuel.
8) Bow Thruster – Thrusters are dirt cheap now – Ranger should leave some of the standard items off - like the sink & stove and others and put a thruster in every boat they sell - even if you have to charge more for it – I guarantee they would sell twice the boats. I would gladly sacrifice even my refrigerator for a thruster. While I’m sure all the expert seaman can dock the boat without a thruster, the majority of the people who by the 21 are not and trying to back that boat in a cross wind or current is a handful for even a seasoned pilot. The 21 is a boat with a glitter of options make a thruster standard equipment.
Anyhow – I hope I didn’t offend any of you guys on the forum - please don’t get me wrong – I love the Ranger Tug concept and design – what could be more fun than a little trawler. Bottom line, facts are facts, Ranger needs to address these problems -not everyone weighs 100 lbs and happy to go 8 mph and spend 65K to do it.
 
Idle up,
The boat is not for you. You were forewarned about the speed when you asked about it several days ago. The company has a niche and does well with it, but don't knock it because it does not suit your specific expectations.

I disagree with several of your statements--including that a small trawler idles at 8 knots--that would be top speed for many trawlers up to in the 45 foot range. As far as a 30 footer with a 150 Cummins using less fuel than the 21 tug--nonsense--and I have experience with a 30 foot boat with a 140 volvo.

As far adding 4" (6'8" is the current beam--you suggest 7 feet) it would make no significant difference in the interior. The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".

Ranger builds what seems to sell--and they are successful. You will have to look elsewhere. But amazingly you are not the only person who thinks the boat should go faster--that defeats the purpose of this boat....
 
Idleup,
I am glad for your sake that you took the time to realize the 21EC does not meet your needs for a boat. I would hate to see anyone spend 60k and find out later it was not for them.
I did respone to your earlier post about the speed and admit it is an issue that one must get used to. At the same time your remarks are stated as though you speak for everyone (to small for anyone)etc. You are looking through your needs and wishes and should not be speaking as though you are voiceing all of our thoughts. The boat meets many of our needs and Ranger would not be successful if they did not.
I wish you luck in finding the boat of your needs and keep us posted on what it is. A c-dory 22' addresses most of the things I heard you say and it may be the boat for you. Ron
 
My mistake - I meant to say 7'8" on the beam (another foot).

Both my Mainship 30 & 34 would cruise 8 knots at a high idle, that's were i ran most of the time. While I could have lived with the slow speed - one of the main problems is the cabin, Ranger has totally screwed that up. The entrance to the helm and that nightmare seat is totally un-acceptable. Remember, you going to spend a lot of time at the helm because of the slow speed, so it has to be somewhat comfortable for the Captain & mate.

Sorry, I didn't mean to offend anyone here you guys have been great - maybe I'm a little pissed because I really wanted one of the tugs. The items I mentioned, are real - I didn't make anything up. I read almost every post on the R21 and many of the members of this forum agree with many of my points. If you just want the boat to show off - then it's perfect, but in a real world situation, the points I brought up are factual.

If your looking for a little tug / trawler like the 21 - then you'll need to mortgage your house $$$ and go for the R-25 now that's a real little tug with comfort.
 
One of the things we have to be here is nice and I will try to do my best
I think my CR21EC has a lot of stuff packed into 21 feet. I have to agree
one one thing but do not know a better way to put in a second seat. I
run the boat by myself so I just took the seat out. I hope you find just
that boat your looking for. The little tug is just perfect for me and when
I see something I don't like I don't whine about it I just change it. I made
few changes!
Good Luck to you on your quest.
 
thataway":20zq1rcj said:
The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".
It's a $2,500 factory option.

Idle Up, I'm a little confused. You said you usually idle along at 8 knots in the Mainship, but 8 knots is too slow. May I suggest keeping the Mainship and throttling up? ;)
 
Idleup,
All of your points may be factual about the item itself. But not necessarily a problem or negative to all boaters.
For many of us there is a lot of boat packed in 21' and worth a lot more than to "show off". I for one could not afford a 30' or 34' boat. I bet you are a better captain than requiring a thurster to move a 21' boat around.
A 25' Ranger would be a great boat to have but $150k is a lot to pay for simple boating enjoyment. The 21' does not meet your needs so pay the bucks to get one that meet them.
Why not get off belittling things that don't meet your needs but do the needs of others. Ron
 
I hope this doesn't come across as not being nice, but... why would anyone head somewhere to "tie up" a deal if you haven't done your homework??? You want faster, more room, a bigger cabin? Well, you just described a C-Dory 22. Oh, you won't have a diesel in it.

Just because this boat doesn't work for you is no reason that Ranger should change their design. You buy a boat for what it does and how you will use it... and it sounds like this boat should not have been on your consideration list to start with. We did have a guy who came on here several months ago with many of the same concerns you have AND a similar attitude... I'm speaking of that "Come on, Ranger, get with it..." stuff. You get to vote with your dollars, but that doesn't mean you get to control what they build. Check into a custom builder - see if they can come up with a marine architect who will design you just what you want. Frankly, I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with all that you want, keep it to 21 feet, and still have that inboard diesel.

Just out of curiosity, what other other boats are on your consideration list?

Jim B.
 
TomRay":22m9ndwu said:
thataway":22m9ndwu said:
The smallest thruster would cost about $1500--but the installation, even in a new build would be almost as much as the cost of the thruster--so that is not "dirt cheap".
It's a $2,500 factory option.

Idle Up, I'm a little confused. You said you usually idle along at 8 knots in the Mainship, but 8 knots is too slow. May I suggest keeping the Mainship and throttling up? ;)

When considering the price of the boat with a few options is 60K + and the thruster is only a $2500 option - their cost must be 50% of that. Ranger would be ahead of the game if they just made it standard equipment.

Regarding the slow speed - as I mentioned, it severely limits your activities to visit different and new locations if you're going out for the day. Also let's not lose sight of the fact if you're bucking a head wind, current, and some sea's you could easily find yourself in trouble. Like I mentioned, I'm a trawler type person I like going slow but there are times I would like to have the speed. Even though my truck could do 100+ mph I still travel only 55 mph. There is no reason in the world why that boat should only go 10 knots. It simply needs a bigger motor.
 
m2cw
Ranger made several changes and improvements when they came out with 21 EC. Be interested to know, if Ranger is planning new features and revisions.
 
JamesTXSD":3kx59k1s said:
I hope this doesn't come across as not being nice, but... why would anyone head somewhere to "tie up" a deal if you haven't done your homework??? You want faster, more room, a bigger cabin? Well, you just described a C-Dory 22. Oh, you won't have a diesel in it.

Just because this boat doesn't work for you is no reason that Ranger should change their design. You buy a boat for what it does and how you will use it... and it sounds like this boat should not have been on your consideration list to start with. We did have a guy who came on here several months ago with many of the same concerns you have AND a similar attitude... I'm speaking of that "Come on, Ranger, get with it..." stuff. You get to vote with your dollars, but that doesn't mean you get to control what they build. Check into a custom builder - see if they can come up with a marine architect who will design you just what you want. Frankly, I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with all that you want, keep it to 21 feet, and still have that inboard diesel.

Just out of curiosity, what other other boats are on your consideration list?

Jim B.

It's funny you mentioned this but everyone that climbed aboard the 21 while I was there had the same exact comments . . . The cabin is too cramped, I don't think I could live with the 10 knots, and the price was too high.
 
Well I weigh in at 275 and I do not seem to have the problems you have.
I do have some wear on the wood trim where I plant my feet but I seem
to get in and out with no hassles. The nice folks at the Ranger factory
listen to the owners and change their boats to make them better. I
myself would have no use for a thruster but for those who want one its
a option. If the price is too high they will not have a waiting list, I think
right now you have to wait for both the 21 and 25. I think you are asking
a awful lot out of a 21 foot boat no matter what the cost is. Bayliners
cost a lot less and local dealer is going into receivership so maybe a
deal could be had and should go a lot faster and with the fold down
seats you could sleep two. Might be a good time to end this thread eh!
Bob Heselberg Eatonville Wa Hull #10 of the CR21
 
IdleUp":mocdcukb said:
JamesTXSD":mocdcukb said:
I hope this doesn't come across as not being nice, but... why would anyone head somewhere to "tie up" a deal if you haven't done your homework??? You want faster, more room, a bigger cabin? Well, you just described a C-Dory 22. Oh, you won't have a diesel in it.

Just because this boat doesn't work for you is no reason that Ranger should change their design. You buy a boat for what it does and how you will use it... and it sounds like this boat should not have been on your consideration list to start with. We did have a guy who came on here several months ago with many of the same concerns you have AND a similar attitude... I'm speaking of that "Come on, Ranger, get with it..." stuff. You get to vote with your dollars, but that doesn't mean you get to control what they build. Check into a custom builder - see if they can come up with a marine architect who will design you just what you want. Frankly, I think you'll be hard pressed to come up with all that you want, keep it to 21 feet, and still have that inboard diesel.

Just out of curiosity, what other other boats are on your consideration list?

Jim B.

It's funny you mentioned this but everyone that climbed aboard the 21 while I was there had the same exact comments . . . The cabin is too cramped, I don't think I could live with the 10 knots, and the price was too high.

Did you know any of that before you went up there to "tie up" the deal??? The R-21 is a great looking boat that is going to attract a lot of attention. There will be plenty of people who have no idea what the cost will be nor how fast it will go. These folks will say the same things you (and others) said. I hear scads of people picking apart boats at boat shows who have no intention of actually buying the boat. However, if you have done your homework, realistically know what the boat does and what it sells for, you should not be disappointed. We eliminated LOTS of boats while we were in the discovery stage; not once did I tell a manufacturer "Come on, everybody wants..." I kept looking until I found the right boat for the way we use it. And when we came to tie up the deal, we were ready to write the check. The fact that you were so surprised about what the 21 is and what it sells for tells me that you either did no homework or you were just entertaining yourself with the premise of going to buy a boat. Truly, that's your business... I just find it somewhat surprising that someone would get on a forum like this and admit that they were on their way to "tie up" a deal without knowing anything about the boat. :?:

We have lots of people ask about our boat. For some reason, many of them seem to think it should sell for less than half of the actual price. I don't consider any of those folks serious buyers or are so early into the discovery stage that they don't yet understand the difference between these boats and the mass produced cheapies.

I hope this isn't offensive to you; that's really not my intent. It just seems to me that your head was turned by a pretty boat, and you're surprised that a 21 foot boat with a displacement type hull won't go faster and have more room in the small cabin and cost less. There is no linear scale for boat costs... especially with something like the 21, it is built by hand in small quantities for a specific use. And that comes at a price. If you punch out the beam, give it a different hull shape that would allow it to plane, put in a bigger motor, and make the cabin bigger... well, you no longer have the same boat!

That's why I suggested you take your money and visit with a custom builder and a marine architect to get exactly what you want. If you think there is a large market for it, you could even jump into the boat building industry and make a fortune. Are you that sure the others who feel the same as you will pull out their wallet?

And most respectfully, I'd still be interested in what other boats are on your short list of prospects? Anything else out there that does all you want and has all you want at the price you want to pay?
 
IdleUp,
As an owner of an 06 Ranger 21EC, I also disagree with all of your comments. The Rub N Tug has almost 320 hours on her hour meter, 7 trips to Catalina Island and a trip north to the Channel Islands under her belt. You said that you spent 45 minutes on the boat. I have used every system in that boat and I can say that I am happy to have every single one of them. With the addition of my new fridg I can stay on a mooring or anchored at the Island for days at a time only to leave for fresh food. Keep in mind that this a 21 foot boat and not this mainship that you are accustomed to. The beam of the boat is factored into its design to maximize the ratio of inside volume and its ability to pass through the water. To add beam and not length will cause the boat to be even slower and require even more engine to move at the same speeds. Displacement hulls have a specific hull speed at wich they will run with the greatest efficientcy. Without changing the hull design completely, an unrealistic amount of power is required to push past this speed barrier. A 50 or 75 horse motor does not suit this boat! This is the 21st century which is even more of a reason for people to slow down and relax and enjoy their time on a boat. In my multiple trips over to Catalina Island, which takes almost 5 hours, I have noticed 1 distinct difference from friends of mine that have faster boats, Fuel. On my last trip earlier this week It cost me $26 for the crossing and an hour long booze cruise that night. With fuel prices in the high 5's and low 6's at the fuel dock over there the last thing on my mind is a larger motor. As far as cooking and doing dishes in the cabin, please refer to my pictures. I am 6' 1" and weigh in at 240 lbs and find no problem getting in or out of the bed, cabin door or helm seat. After a little practice this boat is very maneuverable and after learning how to use the thrust of its motor one will discover that his boat does not need a bow thruster. This boat suits not only my desires in a boat but also my pocket book. I can afford to run this boat without breaking the bank. This boat definitely doesn't suit you but for those it does, we fall in love with it. My advice to you is to do a little more research the next time you feel like spending this kind of money. When you discover that this boat is not for you take the time you spent writing this post and use it to look deeper into the boat on the list.
 
Hello Everyone,
As someone who just did "tie-up" a deal on an R21ec (Thursday in Toronto; ya-baby!), I would like to offer my 2 cents on this. Idelup, I can identify with some of the things you said in your post. Some of that thinking came into mind during our process of determining if this boat was for us. The smaller cabin for example, ( we have 2 young daughters and a dog and are we all going to fit in there when it rains?) And the speed was a consideration, too. At the end of the deliberation, we concluded that this boat in essence is like no other that we have found. Its obvious merits outweigh the few (if any) shortcomings that I'm sure , in short order, will be forgotten. It's a 21 foot trailerable enclosed cabin cruiser with sleeping quarters, stove, head and tons of space for relaxing and fishing. And did I mention its 21 feet long? Here in this market, I know of nothing similar that is less 25 feet and costing twice as much and not too happy being trailered.
This is clearly not a boat for everyone, I suppose. But it is for us. Someone on an other posting said it right though; 'it is what it is and it's great'. That's the way we feel.
Anyway, that's my thoughts. We can hardly wait to next year!

Cheers

Gregg
 
Maybe it's a good thing there's more than one boat manufacturer.

If you can't appreciate the sheer economy of the R21-EC with regard to fuel consumption and space planning, keep looking. We appreciate our little tug more every time we take her out. Filled up for the first time yesterday since the 4th of July (only missed two weekends since then) and the bill was $38.00.

As for speed, either you enjoy the trip or you don't. We're looking forward to more extended trips this fall and winter in hopes of learning more about her capabilities. So far we've been substantially more impressed than disappointed.

Still... to each his own.
 
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