Question About Electrical Use

Solesurfer

New member
Greetings everyone,
We are planning our first trip to Catalina for a couple days. I was wondering how everyone treats their power when they aren't on shore power. My worst nightmare would be to drain the battery and not be able to start the engines. We have six cabin lights, plus the running lights(red, green and a white light on top). Would it be safe to use the cabin lights for a couple hours at night? I've also heard to not use the refrigerator when the engine is off as it is a big energy hog.

And if anybody has been to Catalina, any tips would be more than welcome.

Thank you.
 
Sorry you missed the group outing at Two Harbors ....it was really fun, somehow every year seems better than the last.

What lots of folks are doing it changing the lighting to LED bulbs...they don't draw but a fraction of the juice a bulb does.. I bought mine from EBAY...came from China and cost about $4 each...all set up to replace the bulb..... there are some sold on the internet but they sell for about $40 each...

Joel (SEA3PO)
it's in Camarillo and we are in Reno for weeks and weeks. (I think)
 
You said "battery", as in singular...do you only have one battery? In our previous boats that size, I always just switched to #2 battery only when on the hook, so #1 would still be fresh in the morning. But we have never had a boat with a refrigerator (blocks of ice keeps everything cold for a few nights). We mainly just used a couple of cabin lights and the stereo for an hour or two, plus the anchor light all night. You only want to use the running lights when you are running (thus no battery depletion), and use the anchor light (white light on top) when on the hook.

Enjoy your first trip to Catalina, that sounds like a fun cruise!
 
lots of questions but I hve a few more that you need to answer before we can answer.
1) how many batteries and what is the amp hours for each one
2) How do you monitor your batteries?
3) What is the power draw of your frig?
4) What is the out put of your engines alt?
5) what is the power draw of your lights?
6) Are you able to turn one battery to off to save for starting?

These are things that you just need to think about and understand more. You batteries have X hours of power. Your usage is X hours of power. From there its just math. If you are on the anchor for a few days your biggest power draw will be the fridge, not really that big of a draw, because it is on a lot. If you are not trying to keep something frozen then turning it to low seems to work for most stuff. Also making sure the door closes tight. And its not like you don't have a power source. Just start your motor and let it idle for a hour. Four strokes are so quite you will not notice it on.
 
Also...Your 25 should have a 3rd battery that is for the refrigerator and yes it will drain a battery plenty quickly....

You won't use your navigation lights when you are not running at night ...and when you are running you have lots of power...so keep bulbs in those....

The only place where I felt I needed the mast light all night was in San Diego where I was anchored near a waterway.... I think marinas with buoys have different rules, but LED mast head lights are great and I would sure use one....West Marine sells those..
 
I'm a paranoid baby on this stuff, and I think if you take Tom's points into consideration you can come up with a hard answer but when I'm on anchor I pretty much kill all battery consumption with the exception of cell phone chargers. I have battery powered LED lighting in the cabin and a battery powered blue tooth speaker system so I get lights, music, and the only consumption is keeping the cell phone charged. I dont use a fridge either, just coolers.

sorry thats not much help, just what we do! lol
 
Hello Cheers. I saw you yesterday afternoon cruising around Channel Islands Harbor, good looking boat.
Addressing your battery question; I'm going to assume you have three batteries aboard. One dedicated to the refrigerator and the other two for starting and other miscellaneous electrical stuff. I am also going to assume you have a battery selector switch labeled 1-2 and ALL or BOTH. All suggestions have been spot on.

Following are my "two-cents":
First and foremost: I would first make sure all batteries are less than 24 months-old, and they are deep-cycle marine quality. There are many brands available. I prefer the ones sold by Costco, because of pricing, convenience, and my relatively infrequent over-night adventures.
Secondly: Make sure your battery selector is in the ALL of BOTH position during your 4-5 hour trip from Channel Islands Harbor to Catalina.
Third: Most important, when you get Catalina, switch your battery selector switch to 1 or 2.
Enjoy the trip...!!!
 
This somewhat echoes what Tom said, but I know when I query the group, I like to get plenty of feedback, so here is mine.

Right now you have asked a question that is somewhat impossible to answer accurately. It would be like either of these questions:

1) How much food can we eat each day and still not use it all up?

But..... we don't know how much food you are bringing along, how many people you have, how much they will eat, etc. So the answer could be just about anything.

2) How much can I drive each day and not run out of gas?

But... we don't know the vehicle/mileage, how hard/far you plan to drive, the size of the gas tank, or how much fuel you have in it.

The short answer for me would be that if you don't know much about your system, it's likely that it's a fairly minimal one (a "good" one takes time/money/effort, so you would tend to know more about it). Most boats come with a fairly minimal system. You also (apparently) have no direct way to measure what you have and what you are taking out (that would be a battery monitor such as the Victron BMV 700S or similar). You can still approximate it by figuring out the numbers, as Tom said.

First of all, what is your battery setup? How many batteries do you have, and how are they allocated? What are your options for isolating one to start your engine (i.e. it is sacred and untouched while you are at anchor)?

Next, going with the food analogy, you first need to figure out "what is in the pantry." That is, what size/capacity are your batteries? There are a certain number of amp hours (food) in every battery. One thing about batteries that is different than food, is that if you drain them completely you either kill them or drastically reduce their life span. So what you want to do is only ever drain them to 50% at most. So right away, if you have a 100 amp hour battery, and even if it is full (it probably will not be), you have only 50 amp hours or less. Just for example, a small refrigerator may draw 3 amps when it is running. It doesn't run 24/7, but say it has a 50% duty cycle. That is 36 amp hours in a 24 hour period.

So okay, say you have two moderately sized batteries and each has around 85 amp hours when full. Okay and say they are full when you arrive (outboard engine alternators don't always charge to full, but let's say you were plugged in and charged up that way before leaving). So now you have one 85 amp hour battery to work with, and you can discharge it 50%, which leaves you 43 amp hours to use. Right away you can see that the refrigerator is going to devastate your "pantry."

If you have incandescent light bulbs they may draw an amp or two each hour when on, so limit those (LED draw less). Everything you own that is electrical has a specific draw that you can figure out (look at the appliance; you may have to convert to amp hours from something else, but that is easily done online). The two big "eaters" are things that run for long periods of time (cabin lights, refrigerator, anchor light, computer), or things that just draw a huge amount (things that produce heat often draw a lot). On the other hand, for example, my horn draws 5 amps, but who is going to use that for more than five seconds?

Okay, now to simplify: Presuming you don't have anything "special" in the battery/charging department (i.e. you or a previous owner have not purposely gone out and put in a spiffy/expensive/modern system), then you probably have minimal amp hours in your "pantry," and you likely have light bulbs and other things that are "hogs." You also likely have no way of knowing what is IN the pantry to start with, or how much "food" is left as you go. So you are somewhat working blind (you can calculate usage, but you can never see exactly what you have used or what you have left).

In this situation, I would go completely "camping" or "sailboat in the old days" mode. Headlamps or battery powered lights for daily use (LED battery lantern on table). Very minimal charging of cell phones, etc. And probably a cooler with ice and not the refrigerator.

When I was on Powell last year, I had one 105 amp hour house battery (this is a bit larger than typical house battery), an isolated (different) start battery, and a battery monitor. I used mostly headlamps and battery powered lanterns, carried a cooler with ice, and really the only battery power I used while at anchor was for an LED anchor light, and to occasionally charge my laptop or my buddy's phone or tablet. Otherwise we just didn't use power. We didn't have that much to spare. I did have the battery monitor so was able to see how it was going. I was able to keep it above 60%, so that was good. But I don't think I could have run a refrigerator without either a huge battery bank, or a means to re-charge it while on the hook (solar panels, etc.). The engine does charge when underway, but at least mine doesn't have a very big alternator, and it is not very good at charging the "top" 15% of the battery (so it's very possible to stop for the day without the battery being up to 100%).

If you can get back to use with more details on your setup, we can be more specific.

On the other hand, my short simple answer (heh), if you don't want to go to a lot of trouble figuring things out right now, is to assume you have a minimal battery/charging setup, and go with headlamps, battery powered lanterns, and a cooler. Then you can still charge up electronics, and use the occasional cabin light, plus your anchor light, and you probably won't "kill" or adversely affect your battery (presuming you are not going to be at anchor longer than a couple of days).
 
We do as most others have suggested--and often go over a month without going to a dock. But if we do that, we either are running the engine at least 3 to 4 hours a day, or use a generator.

For a Freezer or Refer, we have a single Group 31 (larger than the usual 24 or 27 on the C Dory) battery dedicated to the freezer/refer. It will do well for 24 hours, and then 30 amps charging, over 2 hours should bring the battery back up. We use a specific separate 30 amp charger for this battery, and have a built in charger for the house/engine start battery also. The Honda E U 1000 Generator, will run both a 30 and a 20 amp battery charger--plus charge the i phone etc.

Never drop a resting voltage of the battery to less than 12.2 volts. You can get a very simple volt meter (digital) either on E-bay, Amazon, or WalMart, which will give you some idea of the status of your battery.

Determine which battery is the engine start battery--and never use it when you are on anchor or a mooring. There is no place to charge a battery (unless you want pay $$ at the outboard shop at the Isthmus/Two Harbors)

Solar panels can help.

Before LED, we tried to only use one or two bulbs in the cabin at a time. Now with all LED's we don't have to worry. I do much of my nighttime reading on a Kindle, and use a small LED lamp which clips onto the Kindle--batteries last 6 months or more worth of reading.

Catalina was my second home for many years. It still is a part of S. Calif. little changed over the last 150 years, if you walk away from the fleshpots of Avalon or 2 harbors!… :smiled

It is a great place--and you will really enjoy it. Stay on the "string line" at 2 harbors. Call the Harbor Patrol when you get there (Chanel 9 I believe) and ask for the "String line". You can take the water taxi shore boat ashore (also call on VHF), but it gets pricey--so a dinghy expands both the horizon and saves $$. I take a cable with a lock for weekends--make sure that the cable is over 15 feet long, so the dinghy can be pushed back away from the dinghy dock. Some dinghies have been known to take a walk in the nights….
 
Sorry for not posting more information, we actually have three batteries. I'm still trying to figure out what is going on electrically in terms of setup.
I do have a battery switcher, that can go both, 1, 2, or off. However I do have two separate battery switchers. Here are what they look like:

http://imgur.com/a/xhUr5#1
http://imgur.com/a/xhUr5#2

I found these corresponding product pages:

http://www.bluesea.com/products/old/9006
http://www.bluesea.com/products/6006

I can see that two batteries are connected to the two battery switcher. The other battery seems to be hooked up to the PN 9006, then there's a wire that goes to other single battery switcher(6006) and then there's wires from there to the dual battery switcher.
I was thinking the third battery powers the fridge as it works all the time, but turning off the single battery switchers didn't do anything. Does anybody have any guesses about the third battery and the two single battery switches.

I found out that we do have LED cabin lights, so that makes me feel better. Thank you for everyone's response, it definitely has helped me in solving this mystery.

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When I first bought our boat with a refrigerator, I thought the previous owner had spent all his time at dock and almost pulled the refer out to throw it away. Instead I ran a test in my driveway during a heat wave. With the refer half full I disconnected the "shore" power and put the switch on the "house" battery only. Ever few hours I checked the voltage. Battery started at 13.2 volts. It took 24 hours to drop to 12.3, and 40 hours to drop to 11.9 (see thataways note above). No change in voltage of the "starting" or reserve battery.

Since then when I've been at anchor in one place more than a day I run the outboard at "moderate" idle for 45 min or so and it has always take me back up to 13.+ volts. In short, being reasonable with the light drain, it's much ado about nothing. You have plenty of capacity. My batteries are small, type 24.

The real concern, in my opinion, is that if something else fails it will be a major problem and the "living" use of the battery won't amount to much. For example, a few years ago I had a "non-start" when I returned to the boat after a day checking out a town on the Eire Canal on a hot August day. No start or even a "click" from the motor on either battery. After a lot of fussing over 24 hours we found a lead had come off of a stud in the electronics area of the motor. I and others (volunteer "outboard mechanics" passers-by) had taken the cover off and looked, but none of saw that one of several wires had vibrated loose, was detached and was sitting there without making a connection. It took a professional mechanic to find it. Meanwhile, the refer did keep my beer cool which kept me cool to survive to boat again.

Chuck
 
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