Pure Watercraft Outboard

[johnbenj]

A Seattle company is working on electric outboards up to 40 HP. They've raised nearly $5M already and have sold-out pre-order slots for their first production. I don't know the range or the battery / weight requirements are but with lower emissions and noise I'd be a buyer of this tech.

How bad is the pollution caused by creating lithium ion batteries? Is this trading one bad for another? Are electric car drivers finding it more acceptable because they're quieter and the consumer isn't an active participant in the fossil fuel chain by not pumping or burning gas?

https://www.purewatercraft.com/pure-outboard/

 

[ssobol]

Problem is going to be that same as with cars. Where do you charge it up and charging time is going to be a least a few hours compared to minutes to refuel with gas (or diesel).

 

[johnbenj]

Problem is going to be that same as with cars. Where do you charge it up and charging time is going to be a least a few hours compared to minutes to refuel with gas (or diesel).

The majority of boating trips start and end at the same location and nearly 100% end at a location which has electricity so getting plugged in should be easy enough. You can't say that nearly 100% of marina's have gas for sale.

You're right about the time-to-recharge being an issue - I am sure this is one of the items being worked on for outboards as it is for automobiles.

 

[BTDT]

Check out the Torqeedo web site. They have a number of electric models and have been around for quite some time. I have a 1003 that I like but it is too small for your requirements.

https://www.torqeedo.com/us/en-us

………...and be prepared for sticker shock :shock:

 

[thataway]

Where does the power to recharge that big battery pack come from? 63% of US power is from fossil fuels. (Lots still from coal) 20% from Nuclear and only 17% from renewable.

What is the range--that is just as much as a problem. Do all marinas have the 220V or high capacity 110 V to charge those batteries in 7 hours? What about voltage--I find many marinas, are poorly wired, and may have voltages as low as 90 volts. OH, what about those of us who anchor out and cruise long distances?

I am a fairly early adopter of electric outboads---with the Torqeedo 1003. I have been using it about 6 years--works fine. But it is for short trips to shore etc. Recently I put in a Lithium ion battery for the freezer/refrigeration. It requires a different profile and there are a number of safety issues.

40 hp--on a C Dory 22--if it is really 40 hp--you will be going at displacement speeds.

Not ready for prime time! What is the cost of motor, and battery packs. The Torqeedo "Deep Blue"--40 and 80 hp, costs a lot more than the boats cost--add in the battery pack. The 40 Deep Blue is $24,000, the battery pack is also expensive. My recollection is that to outfit a C Dory 22 with an 80 and batteries for significant boating--is going to be close to $100,000 for just the propulsion system. I doubt that the US technology will be much cheaper.

 

[jkidd]

Of course with cars your have gearing to help out. With the outboard at wide open is going to impact the range severely. Maybe if you tow a barge full of solar panels behind you. Please try this and let us know how it works out.

 

[Saxe Point]

Where does the power to recharge that big battery pack come from? 63% of US power is from fossil fuels. (Lots still from coal) 20% from Nuclear and only 17% from renewable.

What is the range--that is just as much as a problem. Do all marinas have the 220V or high capacity 110 V to charge those batteries in 7 hours? What about voltage--I find many marinas, are poorly wired, and may have voltages as low as 90 volts. OH, what about those of us who anchor out and cruise long distances?

I am a fairly early adopter of electric outboads---with the Torqeedo 1003. I have been using it about 6 years--works fine. But it is for short trips to shore etc. Recently I put in a Lithium ion battery for the freezer/refrigeration. It requires a different profile and there are a number of safety issues.

40 hp--on a C Dory 22--if it is really 40 hp--you will be going at displacement speeds.

Not ready for prime time! What is the cost of motor, and battery packs. The Torqeedo "Deep Blue"--40 and 80 hp, costs a lot more than the boats cost--add in the battery pack. The 40 Deep Blue is $24,000, the battery pack is also expensive. My recollection is that to outfit a C Dory 22 with an 80 and batteries for significant boating--is going to be close to $100,000 for just the propulsion system. I doubt that the US technology will be much cheaper.

In Canada, it is reversed. Over 63% of our electricity come from hydro or other renewable non polluting sources. In BC it’s 95%.

 

[andyrebele]

The power to recharge can come from anywhere. Even if you live where the power comes exclusively from coal, this outboard cuts your carbon footprint in half. The reason is that it's so much more efficient than a gas outboard. Gas outboards are typically 8% efficient (8% of the energy in the gasoline goes into pushing the boat, 75% into heat, 17% into turbulence/noise), while the Pure Outboard is up to 69% efficient.

As johnbenj pointed out, most people start and end at the same place, so installing a network of charging stations isn't the same priority as it is for cars.

A typical outing will use half the charge in the batteries. Charging from a 240V outlet will fill the battery back up in < 2 hours, and from a 120V outlet in about 6 hours. This will be faster than most people need. If you talk with Tesla owners, they're very concerned about charging speed until they own one. Then they're not concerned any more, because they typically charge overnight.

The cost of the Pure Outboard system is less than half that of competitors, because we built our own components, so we own the designs. We're not paying BMW for their very special battery pack technology and then marking it up; we're hiring battery pack experts out of places like Tesla and designing our own pack. The result is more energy per lb than any other system, at a system cost that's much lower.

As thataway says, the cost of some competitors can be astronomical. That's not what we're about. Our system will cost ~ $15,000 for ~ 40 HP equivalent. The range at 9-13 MPH in our test hull is about 24 miles. Longer range will require more batteries and cost more.

We're designing this system to be the best choice for people who have a choice. It seemed that every other electric propulsion provider was designing for people who were forced to buy electric.

See specs here:

https://www.purewatercraft.com/pure-outboard/

See it in action:

https://www.facebook.com/PureWC/videos/ ... 432523801/

 

[thataway]

Our system will cost ~ $15,000 for ~ 40 HP equivalent. The range at 9-13 MPH in our test hull is about 24 miles. Longer range will require more batteries and cost more.

What is your test hull? How does that relate to a 4500# weight C Dory 22, which would require two of your 40 hp units? How about the 25 at about 6500#, which would require 4 of the 40 hp units?

In many of us go far more than 24 miles a day--for example one of our cruises next month will average 50 miles a day, and one day is in excess of 80 miles.

What about those who fish--for example from my house to the pass to the Gulf of Mexico is 15 miles. Not enough range to get any of my boats even to the pass or back. (Might work for the 10' inflatable, which does fine with the Torqeedo 1003.)

The only of the C Dory line which might find this of interest are the 16 owners, who go limited distances.

Hydro has its detractors. For example there are many who want to tear out the old hydro stations, as was done in the Olympic Peninsula, for environmental reasons. The cost of hydro power construction is very high. It is often subsidized. Don't get me wrong. I am an advocate for hydro power, but am well aware of the issues.

 

[ssobol]

... equivalent. The range at 9-13 MPH in our test hull is about 24 miles. Longer range will require more batteries and cost more.
...

Minimum distance we go in our 22 is ~22 miles each way.

To get close to 90 hp that is equivalent to what is on my 22 would cost close to $40K just for the power plant. That is close to what I paid for the whole boat, motor, and trailer.

The weight of 90hp equivalent is likely around 700# (although there is not a direct 90hp set up, only 80hp). This is comparable to a 90hp engine and a full load of fuel on a 22. However, the gas version has much longer range. The weight of a 90hp motor and the gas for 13 miles range is significantly less.

 

[andyrebele]

What is your test hull? How does that relate to a 4500# weight C Dory 22, which would require two of your 40 hp units? How about the 25 at about 6500#, which would require 4 of the 40 hp units?

In many of us go far more than 24 miles a day--for example one of our cruises next month will average 50 miles a day, and one day is in excess of 80 miles.

What about those who fish--for example from my house to the pass to the Gulf of Mexico is 15 miles. Not enough range to get any of my boats even to the pass or back. (Might work for the 10' inflatable, which does fine with the Torqeedo 1003.)

The only of the C Dory line which might find this of interest are the 16 owners, who go limited distances.

Our test hull is a lightweight 27' catamaran. Admittedly, it's a hyper-efficient boat, but moving to electric propulsion should probably cause people to re-think their hull choices. Weight becomes much more of an issue, and because batteries are intrinsically heavy, you don't need as heavy a hull for stability.

Our battery packs can be chained together to provide the range needed; however, I don't think our system is the right choice for anyone doing an occasional long trip. For those doing a long trip regularly, we cut the operating cost so much that it pays for itself. Personally, I wouldn't use two of our motors in tandem. For that purpose, the right electric system doesn't exist yet (in my view). Or maybe a lighter hull with just one of our motors would achieve the actual performance goals.

I can't provide any detailed feedback on how our system would perform with the C Dory. I can just provide general information on how many batteries it takes to put out the HP equivalent of a gas outboard. For example, someone who would be using a 25 HP outboard running at 80% power (burning 2 gallons/hr) would use about 8 kW and require one of our battery packs per hour of range.

As you've noted, there are applications for which this fits, and applications for which it doesn't. The best applications are those with frequent and regular range requirements. And even in some applications where it will end up costing more than gas, some people may choose it because of the improvement in experience (quietness, lack of maintenance, reliability, low-speed control).

Thanks,

Andy