My foam is the poured in type, totally bonded to the hull. I have removed about 3 cubic feet on the port side so far, the easy(er) stuff under the hatch I installed. To get much more I would have to install another hatch and work from there. Might do that if I totally run out of other things to do.
PROJECT-A-PALOOZA!! - V-Berth Access and Mods
- Thread starter Ray
- Start date
I hear you on that. I was thrilled to "just" see loose styrofoam blocks after I cut out the lid holes (it was like watching a casino wheel spin as I made the cut and lifted up the first piece to reveal the contents). However, by the end of the day I was cursing like a sailor trying to get them out! It was still much, MUCH easier than the bonded foam like you have, but what made it hard was a devilishly small detail: They had laid strips of masking tape sticky side up on the hull in a grid pattern, then lowered these gargantuan, custom-cut blocks of foam onto them. Of course I didn't know that at first. So I was sawing down through these really deep foam blocks (with improvised "saws," such as my big square, since I don't have any saws with blades that long, my hands were not thanking me), and yet they would not lift out! Of course I could not grip them very well. Once I figured out the tape was there, it was still ridiculously hard to defeat, given it was just wimpy little masking tape (but in such a hard position to "do anything to").
At any rate, the good part was that once I had the blocks out the hull was clean as a whistle, but getting them out turned out to be a bit more of a battle than I thought it would be for "simply" loose blocks...
Although that night as I drifted off to sleep - and even though I had taken them to the dump, in bags - I was still having to convince myself that no, those little white balls of foam could NOT come back again. Man, keeping those corralled as I worked was a task.
I guess it just made the clean, empty space look that much nicer in the end. I should really get busy and write up that project. After all, there are plenty of "non daylight" hours these days in which to do so.
Sunbeam
PS: One clue folks can use -- the v-berth flat in my boat had absolutely none of those ~1" cover plugs that I believe typically fill the holes that were used to shoot in the spray foam. And the main foam was not spray foam - so that makes sense, and one could make a reasonable guess that their main foam is not spray foam if there are no plugs in the v-berth flat.
(My boat has a small amount of pour-in-place type "hard" foam supporting the footwell where the porta potti sits - between that and the hull; but not in the main space under the berth.)
At any rate, the good part was that once I had the blocks out the hull was clean as a whistle, but getting them out turned out to be a bit more of a battle than I thought it would be for "simply" loose blocks...
Although that night as I drifted off to sleep - and even though I had taken them to the dump, in bags - I was still having to convince myself that no, those little white balls of foam could NOT come back again. Man, keeping those corralled as I worked was a task.
I guess it just made the clean, empty space look that much nicer in the end. I should really get busy and write up that project. After all, there are plenty of "non daylight" hours these days in which to do so.
Sunbeam
PS: One clue folks can use -- the v-berth flat in my boat had absolutely none of those ~1" cover plugs that I believe typically fill the holes that were used to shoot in the spray foam. And the main foam was not spray foam - so that makes sense, and one could make a reasonable guess that their main foam is not spray foam if there are no plugs in the v-berth flat.
(My boat has a small amount of pour-in-place type "hard" foam supporting the footwell where the porta potti sits - between that and the hull; but not in the main space under the berth.)
nordicstallion
New member
Boy, I guess they are all different. Under my portapotty footwell I found a block of foam about 2" thick. If it was attached to anything I'd guess it was adhered on the top side to the footwell as there was a space between it & the hull. That's where I found water.
I tore out most of the poured in foam on our 19 and it was worth the added storage and space to move the batteries. Barely :wink:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Greg
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _photo.php
Greg
Can those of you that removed "poured in" foam confirm Sunbeam's observation of the 1" plugs being there opposed to no plugs indicating the existence of "loose foam blocks"? I definitely have the poured in foam under the portapotty space but no plugs int he flats under the mattress. Just like to know what I might be facing before making the first cut.
Moxieabs":86upu7ag said:
If I had to bet, I'd say you're going to get lucky
My boat is just one year older (2002) and I, too, had the "foamed in" foam under the porta potti foot area. In case this gives you something to go on, my boat has a ~6" round, white plastic inspection plate right under where the Porta Potti sits. I couldn't even get the lid to turn! So I removed the screws holding the flange in place and pulled it up. Filled with spray in type foam, and the top of the foam was "engraved" with the exact details of the underside of the top. That had "stuck" the lid so I couldn't unscrew it. This foam basically supports the "well" of the potti area of the v-berth flat.No plugs at all, so I was not expecting foamed-in foam (but still glad to find out for sure). Now that I have taken all the big blocks out, I can see how they put it together....
1) Start with a bare v-berth.
2) Lay down a grid of 2" masking tape, sticky side up.
3) Place pre-cut (and marked) blocks of styrofoam (massive blocks that totally filled the space) onto the tape, so they are held in place.
4) Lower v-berth molding in on top.
5) Tab v-berth to hull on top side of v-berth.
The blocks were way too large to have been put in after things were glassed in up there. I'll write it up soon with photos. Be interesting to see what you have!
Sunbeam
Pat Anderson
New member
Well, this is definitely a project for some winter weekend with Daydream in the garage! I have to go do some inspection to see what I can find out about what I am going to be facing, but I am imaging shot-in foam, not loose blocks, but I really don't know yet of course.
After seeing the big, cut-to-fit blocks that were in my boat, and envisioning the process to get them in place before putting the v-berth top on, I imagine it was a lot easier/faster to drill a few holes and shoot (or pour) in the expanding type, and then pop plastic plugs into the holes). So I can imagine the progression to the latter type.
Roy & Dixie
New member
I was wondering about the water you uncovered. Any further insights as to how or why the water got in there? There's the anchor locker drain theory and the long screws securing the brass keel strip and penetrating the hull theory.
I had a problem with water oozing out from behind one of the snaps that was screwed into the lower side of the portapotty area to hold the privacy curtain. It had a terrible smell. I drilled a small hole as close to the deck level as possible so the water would drain into the main cabin floor after I raised the bow as much as possible with the boat on the trailer, and with the floor carpet removed. What drained out had that terrible smell and was thick and dark in color. I removed the lower snaps for the privacy curtain so the enclosed area could breath. This slimy, smelly water slowly drained out over several days. It was obvious to me that I had foam installed and it had absorbed this liquid over a long period of time. Finally all the liquid seemed to be gone. I would estimate a pint of water had been wiped up over this time period. I replaced the snaps and used a sheet metal screw to seal the hole I had drilled. I cleaned the cabin sole area with a strong mixture of water, detergent and bleach to disinfect area and eliminate the smell. I checked the chain locker and could see no signs that water had ever leaked into that area, but I sealed the area with a spray-on rubber sealant. After a year I have had no indication of any additional water build up, but would need to remove the sheet metal screw and raise the bow to be sure.
I am convinced that this moisture occurred over a period of several years due to condensation. I have a 1999 22CD which would have allowed 14-15 years to accumulate. The liquid that drained out was truly old, smelly stuff. I'm sure we have all experienced how wet the interior walls and overhead can become under certain weather conditions. If even a small amount of condensation occurs in the enclosed area which has no air circulation to dry it out, over time a noticeable amount of water can accumulate.
I had a problem with water oozing out from behind one of the snaps that was screwed into the lower side of the portapotty area to hold the privacy curtain. It had a terrible smell. I drilled a small hole as close to the deck level as possible so the water would drain into the main cabin floor after I raised the bow as much as possible with the boat on the trailer, and with the floor carpet removed. What drained out had that terrible smell and was thick and dark in color. I removed the lower snaps for the privacy curtain so the enclosed area could breath. This slimy, smelly water slowly drained out over several days. It was obvious to me that I had foam installed and it had absorbed this liquid over a long period of time. Finally all the liquid seemed to be gone. I would estimate a pint of water had been wiped up over this time period. I replaced the snaps and used a sheet metal screw to seal the hole I had drilled. I cleaned the cabin sole area with a strong mixture of water, detergent and bleach to disinfect area and eliminate the smell. I checked the chain locker and could see no signs that water had ever leaked into that area, but I sealed the area with a spray-on rubber sealant. After a year I have had no indication of any additional water build up, but would need to remove the sheet metal screw and raise the bow to be sure.
I am convinced that this moisture occurred over a period of several years due to condensation. I have a 1999 22CD which would have allowed 14-15 years to accumulate. The liquid that drained out was truly old, smelly stuff. I'm sure we have all experienced how wet the interior walls and overhead can become under certain weather conditions. If even a small amount of condensation occurs in the enclosed area which has no air circulation to dry it out, over time a noticeable amount of water can accumulate.
localboy":108a1686 said:
My 08 had factory hatches and no foam. They are low profile hatches. I replaced them with larger ones, the factory hatches are way too small compared to the size of the compartment. We sleep on the factory berth cushion and a sleeping bag. Never felt the hatches.
If you put too much padding in the berth you are going to reduce the already limited headroom.
Doug & Fran
New member
We have a 2007 25', which has been stored for the last 2 years or so on its trailer.
I just crawled into the v-berth and pulled out the cushions. We have a 5" (?) round inspection access towards the bow - I pulled it and there are several inches of water inside. (no foam).
We also have damage to the fibreglas in the ?? funny-little-space-at-cabin-end-of-vberth-where-put-our-shoes-etc.-when-sleeping ??.
I think it's because water was high enough in the space under the v-berth that when it froze during the last couple of winters, it expanded and pushed the 'floor' of the 'funny-little-space' upwards, causing some cracking.
I've sent a note to C-Dory regards installing the additional storage access hatches, and am planning on putting in the same round inspection access as shown in the first item of this thread. And having a fibreglas knowledgeable buddy come over and advise as to the damage.
If you live in similar refreshingly cool climes, considering adding that inspection access.
I just crawled into the v-berth and pulled out the cushions. We have a 5" (?) round inspection access towards the bow - I pulled it and there are several inches of water inside. (no foam).
We also have damage to the fibreglas in the ?? funny-little-space-at-cabin-end-of-vberth-where-put-our-shoes-etc.-when-sleeping ??.
I think it's because water was high enough in the space under the v-berth that when it froze during the last couple of winters, it expanded and pushed the 'floor' of the 'funny-little-space' upwards, causing some cracking.
I've sent a note to C-Dory regards installing the additional storage access hatches, and am planning on putting in the same round inspection access as shown in the first item of this thread. And having a fibreglas knowledgeable buddy come over and advise as to the damage.
If you live in similar refreshingly cool climes, considering adding that inspection access.
Doug and Fran, do you have the fiberglass interior or wooden interior? My last C Dory was "Seaweed" as mentioned in the first post of this thread. I had the impression that there may have been foam in the area under the bunk at one time. However I am not certain.
I suspect it was the first or one of the first several boats with fiberglass "furniture". I think I documented that the boat finished prior to that boat had the wooden interior. However the boats were not always "finished" in the numerical order that they were tagged with. (Some dealers ordered several boats, so the numbers got out of order.). This was the end of the time when the C Dory factory was prolific, selling many boats a year.
Where did the water you found there come from? Brass strip, anchor locker not properly drained, or running forward and some how getting under the tabbing for the forward V berth platform.
In any case, that bow storage is great. We put a spare anchor, anchor rode forward. Two 100 amp hour liFePO4 batteries, and a Victron Multiplus 2000/80/50 inverter charger in the closer areas on each side.
I would be concerned with freeze thaw cycles that there could be some delimitation and water intrusion into the core, if there was water, unsealed core (such as screws to hold cabinets--thus the question about wood vs fiberglass interior). If you can check the tabbing and see if it is holding water back on each side of the fuel tank (access thru the steps on each side of the cockpit.). Also check the core where water pump, bilge pump and hydraulic pump and reservoir for the trim tabs are screwed into the bottom of the boat. There may also be cleats for holding the water tank in place.
I suspect it was the first or one of the first several boats with fiberglass "furniture". I think I documented that the boat finished prior to that boat had the wooden interior. However the boats were not always "finished" in the numerical order that they were tagged with. (Some dealers ordered several boats, so the numbers got out of order.). This was the end of the time when the C Dory factory was prolific, selling many boats a year.
Where did the water you found there come from? Brass strip, anchor locker not properly drained, or running forward and some how getting under the tabbing for the forward V berth platform.
In any case, that bow storage is great. We put a spare anchor, anchor rode forward. Two 100 amp hour liFePO4 batteries, and a Victron Multiplus 2000/80/50 inverter charger in the closer areas on each side.
I would be concerned with freeze thaw cycles that there could be some delimitation and water intrusion into the core, if there was water, unsealed core (such as screws to hold cabinets--thus the question about wood vs fiberglass interior). If you can check the tabbing and see if it is holding water back on each side of the fuel tank (access thru the steps on each side of the cockpit.). Also check the core where water pump, bilge pump and hydraulic pump and reservoir for the trim tabs are screwed into the bottom of the boat. There may also be cleats for holding the water tank in place.