Prepping to Buy... Advice?

T

thechadmiller

New member
Hi everybody, my name is Chad and I'm in Portland, OR.

Mentally gearing up to buy a new C22 Cruiser from the dealer here in town.
The one they have in stock is pretty bare bones in terms of of options and I'm really looking for advice on what to add at time of purchase (and while the cost is getting wrapped into a loan.)

Mostly using it for day trips and relaxing for a few days out on the water. Looking for more comfort and livability options than fishing or... I dunno anything else.

Even the basics will be pushing my budget, so I need to be pretty picky.

Basic navigation electronics? Anchoring stuff? Stove/heater (these seem crazy expensive)? Back porch canvas enclosure?

Thanks in advance for the feedback. And if anybody in the Portland area wants to take me out for a ride on the Columbia, I'd love to kick in some gas money for the experience and picking your brain.
 
If it's not already part of the basics, electric windshield wipers, grab rails (inside and outside on the roof), and for comfort the wallas stove. It is expensive, but not much cheaper if you have to add something later, and the heater will extend your boating season comfortably. But if you need to cut a cost, there are cheaper ways to stay warm. (I did not have a heater on my boat the first few years, but now that I have added a Webasto, I wouldn't be with out it. Of course I've also been on the boat in 18 degree weather!) A windless is very nice also for lifting your anchor, which you should also have. For electronics, at least a chartplotter and a VHF radio. That would be the must have stuff in my book. Shore power would probably be a good thing to have on the boat also, which includes an onboard battery charger. As for a bimini or camper enclosure, unless you really want the back of the boat under cover, that's just a nice accessory. Radar is nice also if you are going to be doing any boating offshore or in adverse weather like fog. OH yes, a decent trailer would come under necessity in my book, but I travel a lot. Lastly one thing I'd add, especially if you will be leaving or storing your boat outside, is a full cover. It's worth its cost alone in the protection it will provide your new boat. Colby
 
I would say basics would include a good Chart plotter and depth sounder. I happen to like Garmin--and there are some great bargains on sets which are being superseded currently--like the 740, or 840sx (450 without $250 transducer). If you are going to do a lot of anchoring, a windlass. But they are not that hard to add later.

I agree that a good radio--best is one that shows AIS (Automatic Identification System)--which will show the commercial ships on the river/offshore--. For example the Icom 506 with AIS, or the Standard Horizon GX2200 (has a good radio, hailer and AIS receiver for $300, with another $100 for antenna. You can interface this with the Garmin chart plotter. Be sure and get an MMSI number, put it in the radio (low cost (free if you join Boat US for $25 a year). You should be pretty well set up with radio and chart plotter for slightly over $1000. The question is can you get a good deal price from the dealer, as you can buying from places like GPS store, or Garmin outlet store? See if you can work a deal with the installation (It is not rocket science--even though some of our rocket scientists would tell you it is!
 
Welcome aboard! Lots of C-Brats in the Portland area, and I've only heard great things about Sportcraft, so you can't go wrong buying new!

I ordered my 22 new from the factory as bare-bones as possible, with the intent of outfitting it over time to suit my needs, as determined only by spending time on the boat, and spread out some of the expenses. I use it only for year-round cruising (not fishing) and sounds like your plans are similar.

To get started from day-1, the minimal electronics included a AIS-capable VHF and 9" chartplotter/depth sounder. Also a kicker is a must for me on any boat, but this wasn't an extra expense since I already had one from the previous boat. Basic safety gear (fire extinguishers, PFDs, throwable, flares, etc), dock gear (fenders, lines), and anchor/chain/rhode, all add up. At first I just bought a relatively inexpensive Fortress anchor but that's now the backup and a Rocna is the primary, another example of how you can spread-out the expenses over time. I also bought a full cover and trailer from the get-go but ended up not using either one since the boat ended up in a heated / covered drystack marina about a month after purchase. (BTW my practically new trailer is available).

Later in the first year, I added a second VHF, a second GPS (I like redundancies in everything on a boat for solo cruising), a Permatrim, and a roof rack for storing inflatable dinghies/kayaks up top (until then I kept them deflated in the cuddy). Shorepower was also added for the first winter of cruising, it's so nice to plug in an electric heater when at a marina.

Then this year (second year), I added a camperback enclosure and a kerosene cabin heater (no stove, since I prefer to use portable butane for cooking on the dock, in the cockpit, or in the cabin). Both are really nice for year-round cruising in the PNW. In the winter it rains almost all the time, and it's nice to step out back to a dry cockpit, and also keeps the salt spray off everything while cruising in a breeze.

With those additions I can't really think of anything else major that I want to add at this point. Since I spend most cruising around the San Juans where public buoys are abundant, I don't anchor that much and I don't consider a windlass as necessary as others might. Many will consider a Radar a must for boating in these parts, and they are probably right, but in 30 years boating this area I've only got caught out in the fog a couple of times, instead I just try to watch the forecast and avoid it. My preference is to keep the rooftop clear of radars and radar arch because where I store my boat those would add an over-height fee.

Best of luck on your pending purchase! The 22 really is an ideal cruising boat. Every boat is a compromise, but after a dozen previous boats I'm pretty conviced that the 22' Cruiser is about as perfect boat as there can be for solo or couples cruising in the PNW.

-Mike
 
Hey Chad I’m over here in Tigard and keep my boat on trailer/covered in an outdoor storage facility. I’ll be headed to water but not for a month or two or when the weather gets really nice. Glad to take you out for a ride when I do head out. John.
 
Just say no to a Wallas . Some guys like them but pages and pages have been written about Wallas trouble. I think there are better less complex heaters.....and that's if your think you want a heater at all.

It should be noted that I'm basing my clear prejudice on this forum and history of guys being disgusted with them. Fighting a boat heaters eludes my list of things I want do when trying to have fun.

"Friends don't let friends buy a Wallas"

:wink:

Good Hunting!
 
I’m running a 2008 22’ Cruiser that I bought new from Sportcraft. Great dealership, and couldn’t be happier with the boat. Since you live in Portland, I would skip the camper canvas, because you can always have Bentley’s install that when you have the funds. An anchor windlass is nice, but it’s not that difficult to handle a 14 pound anchor by hand. I would certainly have some source of heat in the boat. My Wallas stove has been in the boat since it was new, and it’s been flawless. We use it almost every day we run the boat (which is a lot of days). Just run diesel fuel and follow the instructions in the manual, and it will keep you warm and cook your meals. A good gps chart plotter and vhf radio, and you’re in business.
 
Well, I am a minimalist, so let me offer an alternative view (not facts, just a different viewpoint!!):

If you have an iPad or Android tablet there are nice gps based nav apps that will work fine for navigation. I navigated for 500 miles up the east coast with one. A chartplotter is a luxury IMO, albeit a nice one.

Heat is easily accomplished with a $150 kerosene heater. I wouldn't sleep with one going at night, but to warm up the cabin in the morning they work fine.

As noted above an anchor windlass is not absolutely necessary unless you are getting up into years. For me at 71 YO I can still pull up a 20# anchor with 50' of chain, although I would prefer a windlass if I could afford one.

Radar depends on where you boat. I don't know the PNW, but on the east coast it really isn't needed except for Maine. If fog ever socks you in, just hang out at anchor another day.

I would add 120V shorepower as it will be almost essential when you resell.

David
 
Lots in the above...my $.02.

Best autodeploy PFDs you can buy; they are useless if you don't wear them.
I wear mine all the time - even when kayaking in 2' of water. Double down on that when solo. Did I mention wear your PFD?

Backup handheld radio for the "Oh poop bag".

A good "Oh poop bag " - I keep 2 autodeploy PFDs, handheld radio, hand gps, gun and flares, horn...ready to go. Build as you see fit. Plenty of recommendations.

And from the museum of what it's worth...had a Coast Guard guy tell me more guys go overboard when peeing than any other reason. Dunno if it's true but annually we have plenty of ghost boats (no one on board) over here in FL. When solo whiz in a bucket - throw overboard.

EBay has plenty of used equip that you can save a ton of $ on. Haven't been burned yet, but the deals are out there.

Other than that - get out as often as possible. Boats are like women, if you ignore them they will let you know - generally at the worst possible time.
 
thechadmiller":2vt5vneq said:
Hi everybody, my name is Chad and I'm in Portland, OR.

Mentally gearing up to buy a new C22 Cruiser from the dealer here in town.
The one they have in stock is pretty bare bones in terms of of options and I'm really looking for advice on what to add at time of purchase (and while the cost is getting wrapped into a loan.)

Mostly using it for day trips and relaxing for a few days out on the water. Looking for more comfort and livability options than fishing or... I dunno anything else.

Even the basics will be pushing my budget, so I need to be pretty picky.

Basic navigation electronics? Anchoring stuff? Stove/heater (these seem crazy expensive)? Back porch canvas enclosure?

Thanks in advance for the feedback. And if anybody in the Portland area wants to take me out for a ride on the Columbia, I'd love to kick in some gas money for the experience and picking your brain.
Click to expand...

Chad, for starters, you could go with a chart plotter/depth sounder combination in the Nav department. A VHF + handheld isn’t a big hit on the budget. An iPad with a Nav app is a good backup. Do have a depth sounder!!!

Yes on the camperback, and make sure it has zippers that will allow you to open it and step down into the boat from the dock (it isn’t fun to get down on your knees to crawl in). A back porch in the rain is nice. A mooring cover is nice as well, but not an immediate need. If you are handy with a sewing machine, the interior curtains are easy.

I don’t know what to say about the heater/stove. A Wallas is expensive and some people have had problems with them. An alcohol or portable propane stove might be a better budget option. I think there are boats using Buddy Heaters as well. Have a good CO alarm to be safe.

For anchors, a good Danforth/Fortress type, a plow, rode and chain for both are wise. Extra line, chain and carabiners for tying off to rocks, trees, etc.. we carry at least three anchors when cruising.

As mentioned above, good PFDs are important.

I’m in Canby, but the boat is in covered storage now. Give me a pm if you want to chat.

Steve
 
Journey On is 25' C-Dory that Judy and I have used for 12 years. So here is my list of things to consider.

1. Get a remote anchor windlass. It makes both setting and retrieving the anchor simpler. It's not just hauling up the weight of the anchor, it's positioning the boat correctly to anchor, setting the anchor, breaking it out, etc, etc. And no one has to climb out on the bow to release or pull in the anchor. This can be supplied by the dealer and self installed, or not, but get an anchor windlass. $700, not installed.

2 VHF. A must buy, $200, not installed

3. Buy canvass. Include window coverings. We bought the bimini and cockpit enclosures, not the window coverings and that was a mistake. The dealer will see that everything is installed correctly. I'm not sure of the price, you can get local quotes.

4. Have a Webasto forced air heater installed instead of the Wallis. The Wallis stove uses a fan in the cooktop to blow warm air out, and it only goes sideways. The Webasto is ducted and presumably you can get the heat to go where you are. The dealer can install the Webasto or supply it and you can install. $1200 not installed

5. Use a single burner butane stove for cooking. They're cheap, as are the cartridges and require no installation. The Wallis takes a long time to heat up and cool down. Buy the butane stove on the internet for <$25, no installation needed.

6. Get the largest navigation screen you can afford. I'm happy with 7", others need 9''. Or you can use a PC, download free OpenCpn and NOAA charts, buy a $35 GPS and you have a "big Screen". But get a dedicated chartplotter, especially if you're going to cruise. Lowrance 7" display with maps, <$900.

7. Radar and AIS. Your choice. I need it for the Pacific Ocean and LA Harbour, but for a casual cruiser don't get them. Radar: Lowrance $1300, not installed. AIS: upgrade VHF radio $100.

Boris
 
After reading thru the previous posts, I'd like to edit mine somewhat. Considering you are probably trying to write necessity kind of stuff in with your loan, you really want stuff that probably takes care of the basics, and in the aviation world, those are Aviate, Navigate & Communicate. For on the water, not sure what word would best replace aviate, but that would be know how to operate your boat. And have all safety gear that is required! (PFD's, Warning devices, Fire Extinguishers, Fire and CO2 detectors, etc. I even throw the ceiling and roof hand rails and electric windshield wipers in this category.) Anchors would also fall into this category.

Navigate. Chartplotter with transducer. This will provide charting and location along with depth. (iPads and such are used by many, but I assume you have to pay for a data signal for them to work. And that data signal may not be available everywhere. GPS signals for Chartplotters are free!)

Communicate. A properly installed VHF radio with AIS and DSC. (Handhelds can work, but they won't have the same distance coverage as a regular unit.)

The two items above can probably be added cheaper thru online discount stores, but if you can't afford them separately, then have the dealer include them and get them in your loan.

So all above would be the basic necessities to safely operate your boat.

Next I consider items that are necessary to move and protect your boat investment.

If you plan on taking your boat to various waters, then you need a decent trailer. I would opt for one with tandem axle. Since you will probably be launching in salt water, Electric over Hydraulic Stainless Steel Disc brakes are probably your best bet.

A full cover really is going to protect your investment if you don't have covered storage.

And finally, things that are nice to have in the order I would rank them.

Shore Power
Radar (for offshore and/or inclement weather use, or even inland to help see others boats.)
Anchor Windless.
Bimini and full camper enclosure
 
I’m going to repeat what Colby said about the trailer. A twin axle gives you a safety factor if you have a flat, and I sure wish I had electric over hydraulic brakes. With surge brakes, I’ve had overheating issues on long steep descents.
 
I like journey on's list. The only thing that I would change is #5. The single burner butane stoves work, but I have been amazed with my simple induction burner ($50-60 and never buy a canister). Even the really fancy two burner ones for gourmet cooking are affordable.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01JC ... tag1947-20

These do require a pure sine wave power inverter to get 120V power, but that's another thing I would might add to your list (assuming that the dealer doesn't only offer a really big expensive inverter). You should be able to get something in the $150-$200 range that will do just fine. And make sure that your battery bank can handle a little extra. I don't know what batteries your model will come with, but batteries might be a worthwhile upgrade. Nice big batteries are definitely a safety item.

It sure is fun spending somebody else's money.

Mark
 
Thoughts about some of the excellent above suggestions. With an I pad (I assume Android also) the excellent Navionics program is downloaded ahead for time, and there is no dependance on cellular reception. You have to either have a GPS chip in the pad (best) or have a external GPS which communicates with the i pad via bluetooth or dongle. We have navigated many miles out of the range of cell coverage using this as a back up, and second "opinion". On on the water data source needed.

Mark suggests an induction stove--we use a single burner. I have been looking for a "cheap inverter"--but cannot find a real true sine wave inverter which runs the induction stove. Mark--what inverter are you using? (Many stories of failed supposedly pure sine wave inverters and induction loads, which don't work).
The expensive Magnum does work, and we have used it in the RV. I have been considering the induction burner you linked--and it uses 1800 watts. Are you using that one? Also using an induction burner on batteries, takes a lot of high quality battery power and a way to charge. We run ours directly off a Honda EU 1000 on be careful not to use more than about 700 watts.

For moderate use the surge brakes on the trailer are fine, unless you have a small tow vehicle, or do a lot of grades. If just traveling a short distance, or from a storage to a ramp on the same property, a single axle trailer works--the tandem is better.
 
Chad, with you stating even the basics will be pushing your budget & how you described your planned boat usage, I suggest to start out, you consider just using a IPad for navigation, especially if you already own one. We carry two Garmin chart plotters & a handheld gps & in 2010 started using the IPad with either Garmin blue charts or Navionics. During the first several years it was good only for quick adjusting views with boat placement on the chart very inaccurate even with the built in gps. In the last 4 years it has improved, so much it is now the primary chart I use & the other chart plotters the back ups.

Jay
 
Ok, looking at options from my dealer, I'm seeing "single engine battery distribution closer w/VSR".... Huh? Can somebody explain what this is pretty please?
 
thechadmiller":r7k1o6lv said:
Ok, looking at options from my dealer, I'm seeing "single engine battery distribution closer w/VSR".... Huh? Can somebody explain what this is pretty please?
Click to expand...

To the best of my knowledge it’s fancy battery switching. We went with a simple switch setup.
 
My suggested list would be: Chartplotter w/ sonar, radar capable, holding on the radome for now. (Garmin with as large a screen as you can afford, compatible with newest generation of radar). I would have NMEA 2000 installed and an AIS VHF fixed-mount radio installed. These are navigational safety tools and you shouldn't be without sonar in shallow waters. Anchor with proper ground tackle, holding on windlass for now. Tandem trailer unless you know you'll store in rack/launch storage. Could be purchased used later. Hold on Wallas or avoid altogether: If your actual usage requires a stove install that later. If you just want heat a Webasto unit is far superior but expensive and can be added later. Dual electric wipers for safe visibility. Full coast guard safety gear and 4 high quality 1/2" braided dock lines (2-15' and 2-25', upgrade the 15' stern lines to 5/8" if you're anal like me). Telescoping boat hook. Dual batteries with isolator switch, (and I'd personally upgrade to AGM if they haven't already installed batteries). Spares kit including: fuel filters/wrench, props/prop wrench/thrust bearing/nuts/cotter pins, spare wiper blades, etc. 12V "cigarette lighter" power point for hand-held light, charging phones, etc. Some mention shore power which would be very important to include if you thought you'd actually use it. I never have so it seems like an overly expensive option up front. This list is based on our use and personal priorities and yours should be based on yours. To me, safety goes to the top of the list.
All the best with your new adventure!!
Mike
 
Back
Top