Pre Purchase Questions?

S

sailedaway

New member
I am considering buying a Ranger 25 tug - have never owned a powerboat - only sailboats. Last boat was a Cape Dory 31 cutter. VERY uninformed about power boating but taken with the Ranger 25 design. Have many questions - here are some:

Why is there only 30 gal fresh water on board? Isn't that a problem for anyone cruising - on an anchor or a mooring? Doesn't it inhibit self-sufficiency? I am more used to 100 gal water. The tank is sealed in under the sole. What if there was a leak or broken tank or line? Freezing? Can you increase the amount of water to be used in the pressurized system. Is there room in there for a larger or additional tank?

I am a complete novice to cost of fuel consumption. What is the use of fuel at 6, 10 and 15 kts from experienced users - in a form that I can compute - like gallons/hour or miles/gallon at different speeds?

Noticed there was no propane tank for the stove. Same questions as for the water - how long do those little butane tanks last. How many would you have to carry for cruising for about 2 weeks if you used it twice/day? Is it a problem or is it even an improvement over a regular propane setup. My CD31 had alcohol. Anything is an imoprovement in convenience over that.

Our main cruising ground is Long Island Sound and out to Block Island. Any views on stability in 4-6 ft seas? Is it a problem?
Any experience in either hiring someone to transport the traillered vessel a few hundred miles, or a thousand miles. Or ability to rent a vehicle that will do the job. My Honda Element will not suffice and buying a new car for this purpose is not in the overall game plan.

How necessary is the heat pump with air conditioning?

Can you tow a dinghy like I used to on my sailboat?

I apologize for the lengthy message, but I do not know where else to ask these questions other than a salesperson. Any help in addressing any of these questions or even one would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
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Welcome to the C-Brats. As a former resident of NJ I had never heard of Lincoln Harbor. A search revealed a community of shops and a marina just east of the Lincoln Tunnel entrance. 50 or so years ago my inlaws had a house on the cliff just above there. The view of NYC was magnificent. I think the area now developed was Sealand container terminal at that time. Again, welcome aboard.
 
Welcome aboard Sailedaway,

I don't have a Ranger Tug, but a C-Dory 25. While the boats are different in concept, the cruising aspects are pretty similar. We also came to this from a sailing background. Powercruising is a whole 'nother animal, but one we have truly come to enjoy.

Regarding the water: if you intend to be out for extended times, you can learn to conserve. We recently returned home after 5 months out, and found that we had no problem keeping our water usage to around 20-25 gallons per week... with a couple onboard; cleaning, hair washing, shaving, washing dishes. A year ago, I wouldn't have believed we could do this comfortably. We did carry additional 5 gallon tanks of water, but rarely used them. We can get at our water tank on the CD-25, but haven't needed to.

Regarding fuel consumption - if you are willing to go slow (less than 5 or 6 knots), you will find the fuel consumption to be at least 4 mpg (probably better in the tug). As you increase speed, obviously you will burn more fuel. In visiting with a Ranger Tug owner who had gone to Alaska this summer, he said he planned for 2 mpg at around 10 knots. I don't think you'll see 15 knots with the tug fully loaded for cruising - but I may be way off base.

In the CD-25, the hot water tank is electric only. With the tug, you can warm the water with the engine. The tank will keep the water warm most of the day once it's hot. Many of us have a Wallas stove/heater that runs on diesel; there is a small tank under the galley. With very regular use, we find that we burn around a gallon per month at most. We also carry a portable single burner butane cooktop that we can use on the dock or in the cockpit as well as in the galley. We use our butane cooktop infrequently 2 canisters in a year.

Ride comfort in 4 - 6 foot seas depends as much on the period as the wave height. If they're close together, it's gonna be lumpy on our boat - the tug may be different with that hull configuration, but it isn't going to ride like a sailboat.

We tow our CD-25 with a 3/4 diesel pickup. I'm sure it would handle the tug as well. We helped (well, more like "watched") a Ranger Tug owner at the Bellingham gathering, and he had no problem launching the boat at a typical ramp with his truck. Towing it on its trailer would certainly give you more options in getting the boat to you or moving it to different cruising waters. Many car/truck rental places don't allow boat towing... but you'd have to check locally. In our area, most marinas have some kind of vehicle for moving boats.

You can tow your dinghy, but we've seen several owners who put theirs on the swim step. Clip one side of it and hoist it up against the transom.

I'm sure you'll hear from Ranger Tug owners who will can speak from hands-on experience.

The C-Dory was our first powerboat... it's been a good transition for us. Good luck with your decisions.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Hi Sailedaway- welcome to C-Brats.

Good comments from James TXSD. Worth taking note of because of his wealth of experience.

I have a Ranger 25 tug - hull number 15. It is the second powerboat we've owned and the first trailerable. Like you, we started sailing but switched to power when the first mate grew tired of "pulling on ropes", the Captain got tired of being wet and cold and we both realized that in the PNW when the boating is best the sailing is worst.

I'll take a shot at some of your questions but others will probably have better answers.

First of all, if I was you, I'd go to the C-Brats Forum on the C-Ranger and read everything. Recognize that this is a new boat and there have been problems and there are some grouchy comments but for the most part, the comments by the owners are very positive. Some of the issues that bothered early owners and needed fixing have long since been resolved by the factory but if anything particularly concerns you, ask them about it.

30 gallons of fresh water doesn't sound like a lot but as James TXSD said, it's adequate. If I remember correctly, the hot water heater holds an additional six gallons. The fuel tank only has 75 gallons so the secret to cruising with boats like these is to top off when you get a chance. The inside passage from Washington State to Alaska has been successfully done with this boat. We did the same trip a few years ago with a different but similar style boat and just filled the tanks at every opportunity. We do travel with bottled water on board and use it for drinking and making coffee so that reduces water consumption. Eventually I'll get an adequate filter system set up and we'll use more water from the tank.

Not being able to get to the water tank is a bummer from my point of view, but only because I would like to put a gauge in or on it. To winterize, you'll need to drain it anyway so being able to get to it is not a big deal. If I was ordering a boat today, I'd insist on having the best tank gauge I could find installed while it was accessible. Live and learn.

If you go to the Yanmar website, you'll find a chart that shows fuel consumption at various RPM's and another illustrating HP at various RPM's. The first gives you an answer directly in gallons per hour and the second can be used to verify the numbers based on the generic formula that diesel engines burn about one gallon of fuel for every 18 HP used.

We like to cruise between 8 and 10 knots. The way we have our boat loaded, that takes 2400 to 2600 RPM. At that speed, the charts say we are burning about 2.5 to 3 gallons per hour. Roughly speaking that's 3 miles per gallon. There are others that may have better information but that's a starting point for you. By the way, that charts also say it's buring about 6 gallons per hour at top speed (for us about 14.5 knots).

Most of these boats are being sold with Wallas cook stoves / heaters. We like ours. See the C-Brat site for more information on the Wallas stove than you will ever want to know.

I'll defer to others on the handling in rough seas. Our experience is still relatively limited with this boat. Several hours in 4 to 6 foot wind driven seas with most of it quartering into the wind. The roll you experience in a smallish powerboat is, in my opinion, different than with sailboats and is quite disconcerting the first few times. However, the fact that all the tanks and the engine on the R-25 are low and on the centerline is a good thing - again, in my opinion.

I tow my R-25 with a Dodge 2500. It weighs about 9300 pounds on the trailer with full fuel tanks, full water tank and loaded for cruising. The Dodge handles it just fine. Your Honda Element would not. Some of the R-25 owners - at least a goodly percentage - do not tow their boats. It is not uncommon in this area, for boat owners who normally keep and use their boats in the Columbia River to have them trucked up to Puget Sound for a vacation rather than venture over the Columbia bar and up the Pacific. That might be an option for you.

Air conditioning is not a requrement here in the PNW so we don't have one.

As James TXSD said, you could certainly tow a dinghy behind the R-25 but I think most owners are transporting them on the swim platform. Again - there has been a lot of discussion on this issue on the C-Ranger forum on the C-Brats site.

This is a great forum for getting answers so just keep asking.

Again - welcome.
 
Welcome aboard "Sailedaway"--many of us are ex sailors. I grew up cruising on a sailboat whose water supply was one gallon "chlorox" bottles. As Jim says, you can learn to use very little water. We once did a Transpac (about 2500 miles LA to Hawaii)--with 10 men aboard and 50 gallons of water--we had some water left when we arrived. I cruised Baja Califorinia in the 60's on a Columbia 29 with 20 gallons of water and 20 gallons of gas. You learn to do one gallon or less showers--we also used to do salt water showers.--drink the fresh water, and at times cook with salt water. Wash dishes with salt water, maybe a wrinse with fresh.

I don't know if the Ranger 26 folks would put in a larger tank or not. We have a 35 gallon bladder tank which we can put in our C D 25--and we are going to put in an extra 30 gallon water tank in our Tom Cat 255. So there are always ways of adding water.

I agree that one wants to be able to access water tanks--as well as holding and fuel tanks. If they have to be replaced--the floor is cut, and then relaid. I have taken 300 gallon tanks out of cruising sailboats at the end of their useful lifespan and replaced them--by cutting up the floor and rebuilding it.

I don't see a lot of use for the 6 gallon water heaters--except when you are at a marina--but that is the way they build them. I would like to find a 110 volt very low flow, low element current draw water heater to replace them.

I personally don't like the cartege stoves. There is some risk of seals giving way and leaking of LPG. I personally prefer the Wallas diesel stove for these boats--but some of the C Dory owners have built in propane stoves, and a tank container elsewhere on the boat.--maybe this would be a very good use for the "stack" on the Ranger 26--you want propane to "drain" overboard. Of course with a built in propane system, you want a selenoid valve on the tank, and sniffers in the bilge.

Figure that you will get 20 hp per gallon of diesel fuel. If you are running this boat full out, it will be buring about 5 gallons an hour. But at displacement speeds (basically 7 knots or less) a gallon or two an hour. The semi displacement speeds are not quite as effecient as a displacement or planing speed--so you can consider that you may getting worse mileage. I prefer to consider miles per gallon--that is what counts--not gallons an hour. At lower speeds you will probably get 4 to 5 miles a gallon--at top speed 13 or so knots--you probably will be getting 2 miles a gallon...give or take.

A heat pump is a reverse cycle air conditioning--that is it can air condition or it can heat. They are not all that effecient at heating when the water temp gets down about 40 to 50 degrees, so many put in a heat strip. I would prefer a diesel heater--more effecient and quieter.

In 4 to 6 foot beam seas, I suspect that the Ranger 26 will roll considerably--but that is just a guess--hopefully someone who has run in these conditions will give an opinion. A 4 to 6 food sea in an enclosed body of water is not inconsequential--and would represent a good blow.
 
Sailedaway,

One item that I don't believe has been mentioned in the above posts.....the Wallas Stove also "doubles" as a cabin heater. When the lid of the stove is lowered while the stove is on, a fan kicks in and blows hot air across the cook top into the cabin. Admittedly, this would most likely not produce enough heat to warm up the Ranger 25 in its' entirety, but it certainly is a nice adjunct.
 
I can't comment on any of the R-25 specific questions, but I often cruise to Block Island. Next year I will be cruising out there on my new Tomcat. I would certainly recognize another C-Dory!

I took a look at the Rangers at the dealership. Those are nice boats!

I'm researching tow vehicle options as well. I plan to purchase a used truck just for towing. Nothing fancy...just something that runs and can tow my boat 8 times a year or so. It appears there are F250's and F350's with the tow capacity for the Tomcat/Ranger.

Good luck with your purchase. I bought my Tomcat in Long Island. What dealer did you use?
 
Sailedaway,
I keep my Ranger Tug 25 (hull #4) in Stratford, Ct. My wife and I have cruised Long Is Sound this past season to Block Is, Montauk, E. Hampton, Lower Connecticut River, Port Jefferson, Blackrock Harbor with no major incidents. No complaints, generally the boat handled well in the varying conditions, the Race & Plum Gut. Currently I have the boat at Old Lyme Marina the dealer I purchased it from. They are working with the factory to fix some problems with the fuel fill, fuel gauge and are looking to see what can be done to get a little more speed out of the craft. So far this year we have traveled appx 900 miles in 115 hours and burned 280 gal of fuel. No problem with 30 gal water tank nor 30 gal holding tank.
 
Sailedaway,

An important thing to consider about the Wallas stove is that it can easily be used for many hours at anchor, quietly heating away, acting as furnace and/or stove. The heat pumps will require a hefty genset running or shorepower.

For my TomCat, I use the Wallas for heat, with a small ceramic heater for dockside use, and a De Longhi portable room A/C unit which has two hoses for outside air in/out and needs no condensate drain, or thru-hull fittings, and can be used on the trailer. Really nice for doing projects on the boat, or roadside camping while enroute to new cruising grounds. I have a Honda i2000 genset on the swimstep in an aluminum box if I need power offshore.

Although I do have a Ford 250 Super Duty which can handle the towing well, my current marina has a service that takes the boat out of the water on a sling, places it on the trailer, and takes it to service location, or where ever you want within reason. Hiring a tow can be expensive in most cases.

John
 
I am really grateful for all of the helpful information offerred. Of course affording the Ranger 25 is also a consideration. The Long Island Sound answers are particularly helpful. All of those spots mentioned are our preferred cruising grounds. The Race is always an experience.

Reading all of your answers has also opened my eyes to the CDory cruisers - another line of options that I knew nothing about. Is the CDory 25 an outboard motor driven boat? How about the Tomcat? What is that vessel exactly?

In answer to the dealer question - we took a test cruise with the owner of Coeymans Landing Marina on the Hudson River in NY State last weekend. Very nice people.

I will keep reading. Thank you so much for participating with us.

Michael
 
Michael, go back to the home page down to the very bottom on the left and click on the C-Dory Factory Link. That will show you what all those boats are and how they look.

Charlie
 
Michael, on each post, to the left on the bottom under the poster's name is the photo album link to that guy's/gal's boat. Just click on the blue link and browse each poster's boat pics.

John
 
Michael, on each post, to the left on the bottom under the poster's name is the photo album link to that guy's/gal's boat. Just click on the blue link and browse each poster's boat pics.

John
 
So what are the differences between the Ranger 25 and the CDory 25 or the 255. Most specifically what atre the implifcations of using outboards (gas I presume) vs inboard diesel. How about a single outboard vs double outboard? Does it impact the other features that might run off of a diesel like a heater ot hot water tabnk or charging a bank of batteries?
 
Oh, Lordy! Here we go again! Maybe somebody can search out the prior threads and just post links! But clearly the CD25 is the best combination of boat and value (ducking, as I say this!) :lol:
sailedaway":vsou7uh1 said:
So what are the differences between the Ranger 25 and the CDory 25 or the 255. Most specifically what atre the implifcations of using outboards (gas I presume) vs inboard diesel. How about a single outboard vs double outboard? Does it impact the other features that might run off of a diesel like a heater ot hot water tabnk or charging a bank of batteries?
Click to expand...
 
Ha ha - yeah - there are lot's of discussions from prospective owners about the differences between the various vessels. Mine were among the many as I signed papers on my Tomcat a little over a month ago (take delivery in March).

Soooo....to summarize my impression....(never cruised on the Ranger...have only seen them. I have test driven a C-25 and a Tomcat).

In terms of any diesel powered boat...most reliable engine period...slower...better on fuel consumption...offers heat via engine...with age worst fumes...most expensive to purchase...inboard will likely have deepest draft. From my quick observation, the Rangers have the best finish/trim of the lot.

Gas twin engine Tomcat...fastest ride of the lot (high 40's)...biggest berth...highest fuel consumption...best ride due to catamaran hull/air cushion...most difficult to trailer...close to 7000lbs with engines...requires larger tow vehicle...most expensive trailer...more expensive boat and engines than C25...largest cockpit (45 sq feet)...coolest name...only boat suitable for fire graphic down the side. Not possible to own the Cat with a single engine of course.

C25...can own with single or twin...easiest to trailer...best on fuel...flat monohull combined with lightest weight means the worst pounding in seas of the lot above...smaller forward berth (compared to Tomcat)...easier to trailer...cheaper trailer/engines....requires less of a tow vehicle...most inexpensive of the lot...I believe more cockpit space than R25 but I'm not certain of that.

That's the quick summary off the top of my head...trying to be as objective as possible.
 
I agree with Matt's comments for the most part re the CD25. My usable or standing area cockpit space is only 36 sq ft (7' 9"W x 4' 8"L), but ample for 4 fisherman or 2-3 scuba divers. I have slept 3 adults in the V-berth (they knew each other...) and 2 children/1 adult on the dinnette, 1 on the floor.

As for pounding, why? If the wave height/conditions get me airborne and I pound ONCE, I either a) Drop the speed a knot or two, b) Drop the bow a bit with the trim tabs, or c) Change directions slightly to not be directly into the waves. I won't put up with pounding, too hard on the passengers and boat! My sweet spot speed is 15-18 knots on average, although last weekend I went 22 knots for hours coming back from the Santa Barbara Festival.

Never been on a Ranger 25 so can't comment, the Tom Cat 25 is nice, all of what Matt said, more of choice of speed while maintaining comfort -- but you do pay a price...
 
If you are not in a hurry you might want to wait until the factory makes the 26 out of the CC molds. You would be surprized and impressed.
Forrest
 
sailedaway":2i1qnl7h said:
So what are the differences between the Ranger 25 and the CDory 25 or the 255. Most specifically what atre the implifcations of using outboards (gas I presume) vs inboard diesel. How about a single outboard vs double outboard? Does it impact the other features that might run off of a diesel like a heater ot hot water tabnk or charging a bank of batteries?
Click to expand...

Another factor differentiating the Ranger 25 from the two C-Dories is that the Ranger is finished off with lots of nice teak interior woodwork. The C-Dories are all about exposed wiring and simplicity. If you never intend to make modifications, then that won't be an issue on the Ranger, but if you like all the cool improvements that C-Dory owners have documented in their photo albums, etc., then you would probably be better off with a C-Dory.

I believe the Ranger is aimed at the guy who can't afford (or want the size of) a Nordic Tug. The C-Dory, OTOH, is aimed at a group of people that pride themselves on being individualists.

I think the real difference between the C-25 and the Tom Cat is how much money you are willing and able to spend. Or, to put it another way, how much value for your dollar you insist on. I think there is no doubt that the C-25 delivers a higher value for the dollar, but if you want what the Tom Cat offers, you're going to pay the premium. My wife wanted the stability and we both wanted the huge queen berth, so we paid the premium. The speed was not a major consideration.

Warren
 
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