Pot heads and C-Dory?
- Thread starter localboy
- Start date
AstoriaDave
New member
Kushtaka's scan on the illegal/legal markets seems to jive with what people here tall me. Couple longtime friends, solid citizens with apparently responsible lifestyles revealed to me their longtime, measured use. I also know of likely a double handful of people, not friends, but folks I know well enough to greet on the street, who seem to be loaded most of the time, and seem impaired to me. The latter group seem parallel to the alcoholics I know who still use alcohol to the point of abuse.
I do not have a crystal ball clear enough to see how this will all shake out. I am hoping we get a better grasp on monitoring and reducing the number of impaired drivers by legalizing marijuana and making it easier for LEOs to enforce the laws on driving while under the innfluence. Better, cheaper technology for assessing impairment, and per se standards for determining impairment will go a long ways in that direction. We have all witnessed the change in attitudes towards DUII, and the improved technology to assist law enforcement in that arena.
I do not have a crystal ball clear enough to see how this will all shake out. I am hoping we get a better grasp on monitoring and reducing the number of impaired drivers by legalizing marijuana and making it easier for LEOs to enforce the laws on driving while under the innfluence. Better, cheaper technology for assessing impairment, and per se standards for determining impairment will go a long ways in that direction. We have all witnessed the change in attitudes towards DUII, and the improved technology to assist law enforcement in that arena.
cmetzenberg
New member
Kushtaka":1rti7jmp said:
^Yeah! What he said!
What has become clearer to me on this topic is that
*smoking anything is unhealthy long term
*there is variation in how MJ affects people short and long term
*smoking MJ is still smoking and therefore cannot be good on that basis
*using MJ is controversial personally and politically
*young heavy users of MJ may be at most risk (smoke + cannabis) long term
*there is a LARGE drug problem in the US (yes ETOH is a large part of the problem
but we're not discussing ETOH here)
*use of MJ is a choice compounding the drug problem on top of ETOH and other
*the choice to use MJ makes users part of the problem, not part of the solution
Personally, I don't see the benefit of dulling my senses with what some call "dope".
Aye.
*smoking anything is unhealthy long term
*there is variation in how MJ affects people short and long term
*smoking MJ is still smoking and therefore cannot be good on that basis
*using MJ is controversial personally and politically
*young heavy users of MJ may be at most risk (smoke + cannabis) long term
*there is a LARGE drug problem in the US (yes ETOH is a large part of the problem
but we're not discussing ETOH here)
*use of MJ is a choice compounding the drug problem on top of ETOH and other
*the choice to use MJ makes users part of the problem, not part of the solution
Personally, I don't see the benefit of dulling my senses with what some call "dope".
Aye.
Lollygaggin
New member
Not just dulling your senses but your whole respiratory system too. It was suggested for me to try the stuff as an alternative to narcotic pain meds and I can personally testify that the stuff has a major affect on one's lungs,,,, not to mention the affect it has on the brain. It appears to me that this medical MJ stuff is far more potent than even the strongest narcotic analgesic they've prescribed to me so far. I don't mean for this statement to get anyone's nose out of joint but I am interested in other opinions. So far I think that they'll eventually find out that MJ is going to have some serious long term health affects on the respiratory systems,,,, kind of like smoking cigarettes or cigars I bet. I wish it were possible to function without ANY meds,,,,,, that would be the ideal scenario.
Lollygaggin":17841mhq said:
Like I said, "it's still smoking"; maybe 5X worse (see below).
You mean like this?
HEALTH RISKS: "3-4 Cannabis cigarettes a day are associated with the same
evidence of acute and chronic bronchitis and the same degree of damage to the
bronchial mucosa as 20 or more tobacco cigarettes a day.
Cannabis smoking is likely to weaken the immune system. Infections of the
lung are due to a combination of smoking-related damage to the cells lining
the bronchial passage and impairment of the principal immune cells in the
small air sacs caused by cannabis."
-- British Lung Foundation
"Smoking Gun: The Impact of Cannabis Smoking on Respiratory Health,"
Aye.
For the past 10 years I have been vaporizing pot, this method brings the pot to 250 to 275F
and slowly releases the THC much like a dehydrator. The temp is very mild and the savings is just incredible, You will extract the THC 7 to 8 times before you throw it out. A hand held unit that I use is "The Magic Launch Box" found on Amazon and runs off of a AA battrie, The sent left behind is very faint and is there for only a few seconds. I'll go with my friends to a bar and drink soda while I indulge and no one is imposed on, we can all get along. Like I have said before no one likes irresponsible behavior.
PS I got my new Permatrim today I'm very excited, I also fixed my leaking front windows that open with marine weather stripping.
and slowly releases the THC much like a dehydrator. The temp is very mild and the savings is just incredible, You will extract the THC 7 to 8 times before you throw it out. A hand held unit that I use is "The Magic Launch Box" found on Amazon and runs off of a AA battrie, The sent left behind is very faint and is there for only a few seconds. I'll go with my friends to a bar and drink soda while I indulge and no one is imposed on, we can all get along. Like I have said before no one likes irresponsible behavior.
PS I got my new Permatrim today I'm very excited, I also fixed my leaking front windows that open with marine weather stripping.
Foggy is correct about recent studies showing possible negative links to developing brains, but these studies don't apply to the demographic legalization applies to - adults. And, once again - it doesn't take a rocket scientist to point out which product causes more issues when abused by youth - pot vs. alcohol. I'm sure studies exist for that as well, if anyone actually questions it.
Still, underage usage is absolutely a concern - as is underage drinking and tobacco smoking. However, as has been pointed out here already - other than good parenting and education, the best method to keep pot out of the hands of kids is to legalize it. The black market is their only source currently, and as with alcohol - widespread legalization will put a huge dent in availability to kids.
However, the "smoking" concern raised is virtually a non-issue.
First, compared to the only other commonly smoked legal material - tobacco - the health effects are non-existent or minuscule for most users. Yes, some respiratory problems have been documented, typically for extremely heavy users - but even then, there has never been a scientific study that links marijuana usage at any level to lung cancer. And finally, of all the the respiratory issues I've seen reported - they typically cease to exist when smoking stops, leaving no permanent damage.
Second, and has already been mentioned - vaporizers are fast becoming the preferred method of ingestion. They have numerous benefits:
- No combustion. The byproducts of burning plant material are the cause of all the ill effects on the respiratory system.
- No smell. This one is huge from an acceptability standpoint. Several of you have commented on how much it sucks to walk through a cloud of pot smoke - something I wholeheartedly agree with. Nobody should be subjected to that in public. Vaporizers are odorless. My wife absolutely hates the smell of pot, and her olfactory senses are second only to our dogs. I can use it right next to her and she can't smell a thing.
- Cost. Vaporizers use far less pot than smoking. For me personally - it's less than half. Pot isn't cheap, and neither are vaporizers - but even with tiny doses and infrequent usage for my migraines, this savings paid for the vaporizers in very short order.
The more you know...
Still, underage usage is absolutely a concern - as is underage drinking and tobacco smoking. However, as has been pointed out here already - other than good parenting and education, the best method to keep pot out of the hands of kids is to legalize it. The black market is their only source currently, and as with alcohol - widespread legalization will put a huge dent in availability to kids.
However, the "smoking" concern raised is virtually a non-issue.
First, compared to the only other commonly smoked legal material - tobacco - the health effects are non-existent or minuscule for most users. Yes, some respiratory problems have been documented, typically for extremely heavy users - but even then, there has never been a scientific study that links marijuana usage at any level to lung cancer. And finally, of all the the respiratory issues I've seen reported - they typically cease to exist when smoking stops, leaving no permanent damage.
Second, and has already been mentioned - vaporizers are fast becoming the preferred method of ingestion. They have numerous benefits:
- No combustion. The byproducts of burning plant material are the cause of all the ill effects on the respiratory system.
- No smell. This one is huge from an acceptability standpoint. Several of you have commented on how much it sucks to walk through a cloud of pot smoke - something I wholeheartedly agree with. Nobody should be subjected to that in public. Vaporizers are odorless. My wife absolutely hates the smell of pot, and her olfactory senses are second only to our dogs. I can use it right next to her and she can't smell a thing.
- Cost. Vaporizers use far less pot than smoking. For me personally - it's less than half. Pot isn't cheap, and neither are vaporizers - but even with tiny doses and infrequent usage for my migraines, this savings paid for the vaporizers in very short order.
The more you know...
lloyds":3hq5ktdd said:
That's the case now, and may be for the near future - but I'd not bet on it long term. The retail cost has already dropped significantly in WA now that the novelty is starting to wear off. My guess is, it will drop quite a bit more as more growers come on board, ramp up production and further increase the legal supply.
Still, retail pot can continue to be more expensive than black market, and the vast majority of people will pay extra. The reason is simple; pot is no different than any other product sold when it comes to value - price is but one component.
As anyone who has bought illegal pot will attest to, it's not always a pleasant experience. Could be the person selling it, the unknown quality or origin, or the lack of selection. That last one alone, is worth a huge premium to most who partake; getting high is but one aspect of the experience for recreational users. It's even more important for those of us who use medically.
This really shouldn't be a surprise, even for those of you who know nothing about pot. If you're a beer, wine or spirits drinker, you already know what I'm talking about. Can you comprehend buying your libation of choice from a possibly sketchy character, with irregular hours and product availability, who typically has but one option for you? Hell no - you want to peruse that aisle, try something new, maybe even do a little online research first and read some reviews. Pot is no different in that regard.
Da Nag":3mfnw8ym said:
OK, but not the damage to young brains.
From the NIH: "In addition, a long-term study showed that regular marijuana use
in the early teen years lowers IQ into adulthood, even if users stopped smoking
marijuana as adults."
http://www.nih.gov/news/health/jun2014/nida-04.htm
To link this to the young, as well as adults - If parents of young brains smoke
MJ in the home, is it not the same as young lungs being exposed to second
hand tobacco smoke in the home with known deleterious effects? So "good"
parents who partake in the home are exposing their young to substances
known to harm them?
Read more about the harmful effects on our young here and how use in
younger age groups is on the rise:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedterm= ... nd%20meier
Aye.
I am in the minority on this forum, and find this thread rather interesting. I do not advocate the use of recreational marijuana. I will present why:
The long term use of marijuana is not as well documented nor studied as alcohol and tobacco. Both alcohol and nicotine are addictive, as is marijuana in 11% of the population.
I ran a substance abuse program at a 35,000 student university. Most of my emphasis was on NCAA division one athletes. I could tell if an athlete I knew was using marijuana. Their co-ordination, reaction time and concentration were decreased noticebly. These, a long with short term memory, time preception and body perception are well documented to be altered.
Earlier the subject of issues in "children"--that also holds of adolecents and young adults. I Q (with its problems of measurement.) is decreased. Even more disturbing to me is the loss of motivation. I have seen very bright and highly motivated individuals in high school (adolescents or young adults) who became marijuana users, and lost their motivation--and did not do well in college or the future after high school. Again, not scientific--but documented in studies.
Although the incidence of cancer is not as high--at least as studied so far--there are cancerogenic breakdown products of MJ smoke. (I understand the other ways of taking the drug) The irritant properties (chronic bronchitis etc) are just as strong as cigarettes.
Marijuana is a risk factor for a heart attack in people who have heart disease by increasing the heart rate, and decreasing coronary blood flow. In some people marijuana alters the rational thought process, causes paranoia, depression and anxiety.
The "Pro" marijuana group is very powerful. Much of web search follows their doctrine.
In several of the recent high profile victims of law enforcement shootings, there were high levels of THC found ion autopsy. (Goes to body perception and thought process)
There are states which are allowing the use of real medical marijuana (not the psuedo, as in Calif.), where the drugs are dispensed by pharmacy by physicians under class II or III narcotic rules. There is a need for this. But not to disguise the legalization of recreational use, under the pretense of being a medical use.
When I was med school, there were studies giving $25 to participate in the use of various psychotropic drugs, including marijuana. I needed that $25 ( in the 50's that was significant). However, why would I take a risk of anything which might alter my thought process? (Yes I do enjoy an occasional beer or glass of wine with a meal). Just my thoughts--and many of my close friends have smoked MJ in the past. No reflection on people's decisions. But often the negatives are obscured.
The long term use of marijuana is not as well documented nor studied as alcohol and tobacco. Both alcohol and nicotine are addictive, as is marijuana in 11% of the population.
I ran a substance abuse program at a 35,000 student university. Most of my emphasis was on NCAA division one athletes. I could tell if an athlete I knew was using marijuana. Their co-ordination, reaction time and concentration were decreased noticebly. These, a long with short term memory, time preception and body perception are well documented to be altered.
Earlier the subject of issues in "children"--that also holds of adolecents and young adults. I Q (with its problems of measurement.) is decreased. Even more disturbing to me is the loss of motivation. I have seen very bright and highly motivated individuals in high school (adolescents or young adults) who became marijuana users, and lost their motivation--and did not do well in college or the future after high school. Again, not scientific--but documented in studies.
Although the incidence of cancer is not as high--at least as studied so far--there are cancerogenic breakdown products of MJ smoke. (I understand the other ways of taking the drug) The irritant properties (chronic bronchitis etc) are just as strong as cigarettes.
Marijuana is a risk factor for a heart attack in people who have heart disease by increasing the heart rate, and decreasing coronary blood flow. In some people marijuana alters the rational thought process, causes paranoia, depression and anxiety.
The "Pro" marijuana group is very powerful. Much of web search follows their doctrine.
In several of the recent high profile victims of law enforcement shootings, there were high levels of THC found ion autopsy. (Goes to body perception and thought process)
There are states which are allowing the use of real medical marijuana (not the psuedo, as in Calif.), where the drugs are dispensed by pharmacy by physicians under class II or III narcotic rules. There is a need for this. But not to disguise the legalization of recreational use, under the pretense of being a medical use.
When I was med school, there were studies giving $25 to participate in the use of various psychotropic drugs, including marijuana. I needed that $25 ( in the 50's that was significant). However, why would I take a risk of anything which might alter my thought process? (Yes I do enjoy an occasional beer or glass of wine with a meal). Just my thoughts--and many of my close friends have smoked MJ in the past. No reflection on people's decisions. But often the negatives are obscured.
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, there is a reason I have never partaken in smoking anything, and being a light drinker. You've hit upon most of them! 
None the less, I still wonder how we can allow some drugs (alcohol mainly) to be legal, and not others. I guess I lean towards pro-choice. That is, allow folks to be responsible for their actions. (That in itself can be a oxymoron... :-( Personally, I don't think Marijuana is a good thing. Of course neither are a lot of other "legal" drugs. I don't even like taking medications if I don't have to. Most all are just chemicals we take to mask pain while trying to get over/rid of what ails us. The real trick is to fix what is causing the pain. But I do digress somewhat and wonder just what effects legalization of Marijuana will have on society? I don't think I'd vote to legalize it, but I certainly won't get worked up over if it does. Too many other more important issues. Like laws pertaining to storage parking of RV's. :sad Colby
None the less, I still wonder how we can allow some drugs (alcohol mainly) to be legal, and not others. I guess I lean towards pro-choice. That is, allow folks to be responsible for their actions. (That in itself can be a oxymoron... :-( Personally, I don't think Marijuana is a good thing. Of course neither are a lot of other "legal" drugs. I don't even like taking medications if I don't have to. Most all are just chemicals we take to mask pain while trying to get over/rid of what ails us. The real trick is to fix what is causing the pain. But I do digress somewhat and wonder just what effects legalization of Marijuana will have on society? I don't think I'd vote to legalize it, but I certainly won't get worked up over if it does. Too many other more important issues. Like laws pertaining to storage parking of RV's. :sad ColbyI asked a good friend of mine, who has two young kids, this simple question: What do YOU think of the pot law now that you have kids? His answer: It's not gonna make them (his kids) SMARTER!!"
They call it dope for a reason.
As to "the money". You all do realize it is a CASH ONLY business, right? And cash has a way of going, "UN-regulated", shall we say. The pols just saw $$$$$$ without any thought as to the long-term issues created. Typical. Money they can spend, like crack cocaine to a pol. Too hell w/ society, health, intelligence, motivation, family, safety....we need "revenue"!!!!! I fyou think org crime is NOT involved, I have some ocean front property in Kansas I need to sell....
I see it in my job. A non-thinking populace is more easily controlled. The gobment will dole out what THEY say you need. Be happy with it and take another hit. More takers....less makers. It's insidious.
Dr. Bob is spot on, based on SCIENCE. But what do I know.....
Later....
They call it dope for a reason.
As to "the money". You all do realize it is a CASH ONLY business, right? And cash has a way of going, "UN-regulated", shall we say. The pols just saw $$$$$$ without any thought as to the long-term issues created. Typical. Money they can spend, like crack cocaine to a pol. Too hell w/ society, health, intelligence, motivation, family, safety....we need "revenue"!!!!! I fyou think org crime is NOT involved, I have some ocean front property in Kansas I need to sell....
I see it in my job. A non-thinking populace is more easily controlled. The gobment will dole out what THEY say you need. Be happy with it and take another hit. More takers....less makers. It's insidious.
Dr. Bob is spot on, based on SCIENCE. But what do I know.....
Later....
localboy":2o00j8q1 said:
On the other hand, if it engaged them in some critical thinking (i.e. finding out more and then coming to their own conclusion based on that research), then I'd say it could be enhancing their smarts - and those same critical thinking skills would prove useful for any number of challenges they'll face in life.