PNW Cruising

J

Jolly Rogelio

New member
Hello. I'm shopping for my second boat. My first boat was a Bayliner 245 Cruiser. My intended use is family cruising in and around the San Juan Islands. The Bayliner made a lot of compromises but the price was right, and I actually was able to sell it for more than I paid for it, so all in all not a bad starter boat.

We made it as far as Roche Harbor in the Bayliner (from Anacortes), which felt like a pretty big accomplishment for a couple of noobs, but it was very much a fair weather boat - it was really fun up on a plane in glassy seas, but not much fun in any chop whatsoever.

I'm determined to get something more suitable for local waters this time around. I'm attracted to the C-Dory as a relatively economical, tried-and-true Bellingham boat. But I wonder about the flat-bottom hull - is it going to be just as unpleasant as the Bayliner in chop? Bear in mind, that I don't intend to go out in rough seas, but you can't always choose your weather and I just want something that will inspire more confidence than our last boat did.

I'm also looking at Sea Sports and Ranger Tugs, which are obviously a bit more expensive, but then again I'd rather buy once, cry once.

We don't need the luxuries of the RT, necessarily. My priorities are sea-worthiness, an enclosed marine head, and ability to comfortably sleep 4. For the C-Dory that has me looking at the 25 Cruiser, 25 Tom Cat, and 26 Venture and Venture Sport.

One important note is that I don't necessarily require a trailerable boat at all - and my current TV can only pull up to 5K anyway.

I see tons of C-Dorys around, and they're built around the corner from me, so my inclination is that they must be pretty good in the Salish Sea, but I'm wondering what you guys think.
 
I have owned a couple of Bayliners as well as other similar boat (23 to 27 foot size. Despite never having lived in the PNW, I have had boats there for a period of 4 years (Cal 46 out of Sequim to Alaska each year), Multiple trips of up to month all over the areas, often launching out of Sequim, but also Anacortes and Prince Rupert.

I have also owned two 22', two 25' and one Tom Cat 255. I have also been aboard several 26's when underway. Each boat is different. Sleeping 4 is iffy in my opinion, depending on size and requirements. You are going to have more sleeping room in an express cruiser, which had the table/V Berth conversion and the under the floor/aft cabin athwart ships bunk. There are also negatives in these boats. A number of the Tugs have the convertible dinette, and coffin berth under the table; several others, include Sea Sport also have these bunks.

Of the group of these boats, probably the over all best riding would be one of the larger Sea Sport 26 Alaskan pilot has the dinette and berth under--{sleeps 6)-perhaps really means sleeps 4 adults comfortably. The deep V of the Sea Sport gives a better ride into chop--but I cannot tell you what the limit is for these.

The C Dory Tom Cat 255 has the convertible dinette--I question if two adults can sleep comfortably on the convertible dinettes of any of these boats. It can be done, but will it be comfortable?

The Tom Cat has a 7' plus athwart ships berth--about the width of a queen. The way we sleep more in the Tom Cat was to put an extra cushion in the foot well of the forward facing/dinette seat, and I (6'2" 180 lbs)would sleep fore and aft. One adult could sleep on the dinette converted, and then two adults could sleep in comfort to the Starboard side of the large forward berth in the Tom Cat.

Ride in chop--I have rarely stopped running in many thousands of miles of C Dory ownership over a period of 20 years, because of weather. The most comfortable of the boats is the Tom Cat 255. It does have its limits, and that is about 2 1/2' maybe 3 feet of chop. The tunnel should have been higher, so you can get some slamming under the bridge deck as you get up in wave sizes. Down wind/waves the C Dory 25 does well, and I. have run Johnstone Straights with 35 to 40 knots of wind and 10' seas with no problem. That day, no boats, including 50 footers were going into the waves.

The 25 and 22 will handle chop better with both trim tabs and Permatrims on the antiventillation plate of the outboard. You have to put the bow down, and push into it. When you are punching into chop over 1 1/2 to 2 feet. I have run behind larger boats on rough days, staying in their wake (with permission).

I cannot address the Ranger Tugs. I have driven several of the models from 25 to 30 feet to demonstrate the boats for a dealer, taking C Brats on fairly calm water, and they handle well. But I have not been in really rough weather with one. There are a few other challenges with the RT, but that is down to personal preference. Also there are the diesel powered RT and the more recent outboard powered RT. Bill, in Mystery Girl can give you the information on RT outboard powered. We have run along side of him, and I believe the ride is better in the RT, outboard boats.

I like a boat, I can take all of the soft goods out of, and turn the hose on inside to wash it out. C Dory meets these criteria.

I could have easily purchased a RT, and did not.
 
Sleeping 4 “comfortably” on a 25? Adults or small children? I’ve had three adults & a child on our 25 for one night…but one adult had to sleep out in the cockpit under the camper back. 4 adults? Nope, unless someone wants to do the same or quite literally sleep on the cabin floor. These are good “couples boats” or a couple and a small/young child, max.
 
localboy":18d4fi9q said:
Sleeping 4 “comfortably” on a 25? Adults or small children? I’ve had three adults & a child on our 25 for one night…but one adult had to sleep out in the cockpit under the camper back. 4 adults? Nope, unless someone wants to do the same or quite literally sleep on the cabin floor. These are good “couples boats” or a couple and a small/young child, max.
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I guess sleeping 4 "comfortably" is relative. I mean for my wife and I, and 2 sons (10 &15, although the 15 y/o is basically adult-sized at this point). Anyway, I'm looking at mostly doing day-trips with a few overnights or weekends, and would expect only as much comfort as one might expect from camping or something. I'm thinking two or three in the vee-berth and one in the dinette berth. Or maybe moving one out of the vee into the cockpit. Not ideal for extended cruising but seems okay for short trips.

The problem is I think to get 4 equally comfortable adult-sized berthing spaces requires much, much more boat at much, much higher cost - unless someone can point me in a better direction.
 
I’m 5’9 175 lbs. The Admiral is 5’2 100 lbs dripping wet. We can sleep in the berth without issue. Someone else up there with us? No way. Our feet already meet at the bow. Like I said someone can sleep on the floor but you won’t be getting to the head in the middle of the night and you’ll have to contend with all the gear/clothing etc being piled/stored somewhere.
 
localboy":1ajkshbx said:
I’m 5’9 175 lbs. The Admiral is 5’2 100 lbs dripping wet. We can sleep in the berth without issue. Someone else up there with us? No way. Our feet already meet at the bow. Like I said someone can sleep on the floor but you won’t be getting to the head in the middle of the night and you’ll have to contend with all the gear/clothing etc being piled/stored somewhere.
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Well, I guess it's pretty subjective. I've seen a few threads on here with guys sleeping 4 in a 22' Cruiser, although they admit it's not for everyone.

My thinking is that the berth on a Tomcat is supposed to be bigger than a queen bed. My wife and I plus our younger son can sleep fairly comfortably in a queen bed. My oldest could surely fit in the converted dinette berth. Still leaves room to get to the head.

I'm not saying it would be an ideal arrangement, but I think it might be doable. The alternative is not boating at all, because as you know this hobby gets real expensive real quick when you start increasing LOA. Plus we'll be empty nesters before we know it and can get into more extended cruises then.
 
I can't speak to the interiors, but a Sea Sport Explorer seems like basically a heavier, nicer Dory. They're made by the same company, effectively, so I think it's essentially a Honda/Acura kind of thing at this point, and I always look at them admiringly.

As a newish owner of one of the smaller C Dory's my experience with them in general is also limited, but I will say that so far it bears out what you hear: the nearly-flat aft portion will pound you pretty good, but the flip side is that if you back off the throttle and run at a half plane you can drive through just about anything you've got the guts for, provided you don't mind doing it at 10 or so knots.

(If you read carefully, Dory owners mostly acknowledge that for comfort in anything but flat calm conditions, they are running not on a plane but rather on a half-plane, holding it just before the point where it would drop the bow and level out).

Folks speak highly about the fuel efficiency of a Dory vs the similar heavier boats out there - like an equivalent length Sea Sport or Skagit Orca (also same company, they own all three brands I think). As noted above though, the fact that they are lighter is a double edged sword.

The Skagit Orca 27 is almost half again as heavy as a CD 26 (6,000 lbs vs ~4,300). Basic physics tells you that between two boats with relatively similar hull profiles, the one with more mass is going to take more opposing energy (ie a bigger wave) to deflect it (stop it from punching through).

If you like the hardtop/Dory form and function, the 90's Olympic hard tops are also beloved PNW cruiser/angler boats if you can find a good one.

The Tom Cat is obviously a whole different can of worms. People seem to love them, and Thataway's opinion of them speaks volumes (he has been around the block). I can't speak to them at all.

Personally I like my CDory. It was cost effective for the length, and it's a simple weatherly (stiff) little hull, and when I learned to drive it right I realized it's kind of like VW Bus of the ocean - pretty roomy and game for just about anything. On the flip side it's slow, a bit spartan, and nothing really to write home about in terms of the build, although again the hull design is very stable which is cool, and like Thataway says, you can hose it out at the end of the day.

I think you'll be happy with any of the choices. Good luck.
 
One thing with the C-Dory in rough water is to get the bow down. Because these boats carry a lot of their weight towards the stern, without trim tabs or a Permatrim it can be difficult to get the bow down far enough to soften the ride.
 
ssobol":crba2huk said:
One thing with the C-Dory in rough water is to get the bow down. Because these boats carry a lot of their weight towards the stern, without trim tabs or a Permatrim it can be difficult to get the bow down far enough to soften the ride.
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Ssbol I would be interested to hear or read more about this. I still have comparatively limited experience in these boats, although I've been in some rough water in mine already. In any sea state me than about two feet (especially if the period is short) I am below full planning speed (or if I'm above it, I'm pounding hard across the tops of the waves).

If you cared to share more or know of any good threads on this topic I'd be very interested

Thanks in advance.
 
The theory is that the bottom of the C Dory is a low dead rise., or not much V. You put the bow down temporally to push into the chop---less riding on top and pounding. Articles?? No--just a lot of experience with many boats, many people and different conditions.

This being said, it the boat is a 16, it will be a bit more difficult in chop than the 22, than the 25, than the Tom Cat.
 
thataway":1pdnz1ev said:
The theory is that the bottom of the C Dory is a low dead rise., or not much V. You put the bow down temporally to push into the chop---less riding on top and pounding. Articles?? No--just a lot of experience with many boats, many people and different conditions.

This being said, it the boat is a 16, it will be a bit more difficult in chop than the 22, than the 25, than the Tom Cat.
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Right, so you're below planing speed, but with the bow trimmed down. That lines up with what I've experienced works - running to toward the top end of the displacement speed range, with the bow trimmed down in an opposing sea (or in a following Sea trimmed about neutral).

I wasn't asking for articles, by the way, just curious about any places on here where rough water trim had been discussed more. I've seen quite a few but am always interested in anything new
 
In rough water you have to balance getting the bow down to improve the ride with having it down so far that you bow steer when you get to the trough of the wave.
 
My suggestion for sleeping 4 on a 25 is for 2 of them to be in a tent on the shore. Not being funny but as our son James hit 5'10" and then 6ft we moved him from the bed/table to the tent on the beach. Many great camp grounds on the San juans and gulf islands are set up with tent camping in mind. Kids will love the freedom. This way they can bring friends and you dont have to worry having enough room in the boat.
 
My suggestion for sleeping 4 on a 25 is for 2 of them to be in a tent on the shore. Not being funny but as our son James hit 5'10" and then 6ft we moved him from the bed/table to the tent on the beach. Many great camp grounds on the San juans and gulf islands are set up with tent camping in mind. Kids will love the freedom. This way they can bring friends and you dont have to worry having enough room in the boat.
 
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