Kylie-Lynn
New member
Could anyone chime in on whether I can use my existing marine antenna w/coaxial cable and split to new am/fm reciever?
Piggy back stereo receiver to existing shakespeare 4187 ?
- Thread starter Kylie-Lynn
- Start date
starcrafttom
Active member
As long as you do not want to listen to Am this will work. I had one on my 22 and on AM you get nothing but chirps and clicks ( data streams from the gps) very loudly. You have to turn off the MFD to hear anything on am. Never could figure out how to stop it.
Can it be done--yes. Is it a good idea? No. The VHF antenna is tuned for the frequency band around 150 to 160 mhz. The FM radio band is 88 to 105 mhz, a tuned piece of wire or dipole will give as good an FM signal--and these can be bought on the internet and at marine stores.
The down side is that any splitter, or even extra connections in a VHF antenna circuit will degrade the signal/range of your VHF marine. You won't notice it when listening to the weather, or even to most calls on channel, but the VHF marine radio is a safety device, and you want it to deliver maximum power when you put out a call to Sea Tow, the Coast Guard etc. That is why I am opposed to any splitter in a VHF Marine antenna circuit.
The down side is that any splitter, or even extra connections in a VHF antenna circuit will degrade the signal/range of your VHF marine. You won't notice it when listening to the weather, or even to most calls on channel, but the VHF marine radio is a safety device, and you want it to deliver maximum power when you put out a call to Sea Tow, the Coast Guard etc. That is why I am opposed to any splitter in a VHF Marine antenna circuit.
Definitely possible. Splitters are sold by WM and others. Not recommended by me either as Bob's points are right on. I always use a flexible antenna as short as I can find and locate it behind the stereo just zap strapped in. I even did this in a steel cruising boat and am/fm comes in just fine. You shouldn't need an external antenna.
I have a splitter on one of my VHF radios, sharing an AM-FM. The antenna is a 4ft base loaded Shakespeare whip, and I can hit the "Radio Check" on San Juan Island above Friday Harbor, from Sequim Bay. That's 25+ miles. I agree, the VHF is a safety device and needs to be operating in good form. I think it may have to do with the quality of the splitter.
I am wondering if I can put a splitter between two VHFs as long as they are not bot broadcasting at the same time -- (they would be on different channels.)
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
I am wondering if I can put a splitter between two VHFs as long as they are not bot broadcasting at the same time -- (they would be on different channels.)
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
G Gallagher
New member
How about Siris Radio instead of AM/FM? I went to Best Buy about a year ago and for not too much money bought one , installed it and love it. Reception is good everywhere off shore that I have been.
Does cost me about $15 a month, but no commercials, great reception, and I love the golden oldies channels 5-6-7 and lots of talk ,news etc,
Never thought that I would be willing to pay for radio, but here I am and have no plan to go back to free AM/FM.
Actually, costs less than $15/ mo because they gave me 6 months free.
Does cost me about $15 a month, but no commercials, great reception, and I love the golden oldies channels 5-6-7 and lots of talk ,news etc,
Never thought that I would be willing to pay for radio, but here I am and have no plan to go back to free AM/FM.
Actually, costs less than $15/ mo because they gave me 6 months free.
As one who owns 4 Sirius/XM radios--definitly worth it. Almost anything you want. I realize that there are many ways to get music and entertainment, but for us cross country drives are much more pleasurable with the Sirius.
Yes, Harvey you can hit the repeater--and there are many factors what allow that. But the facts are that you will loose considerable power. A high end splitter (powered costing in the $400 range) will cost you 4 dB in receive and 1.5 to 3.5 dB in the transmission mode. What I am more concerned about is small vessels, with low power, hand held, longer distances, communication with vessels with less than ideal antennas. So it is not just your send and receive but also others you may be communicating with.
Two transmitters--one antenna--yes I have done that with various ham radios, mostly in RV's, again using a specific splitter, for specific frequencies, relays etc.--considerably different and more expensive than what you may use for VHF and FM radio.
Buy two antennas if you want to use two different radios to transmit with. It is not related to specific frequencies--it is overloading and damaging the receiving end of the radio which is not transmitting. I have two antennas on the top of the C Dory.
Regards.
Yes, Harvey you can hit the repeater--and there are many factors what allow that. But the facts are that you will loose considerable power. A high end splitter (powered costing in the $400 range) will cost you 4 dB in receive and 1.5 to 3.5 dB in the transmission mode. What I am more concerned about is small vessels, with low power, hand held, longer distances, communication with vessels with less than ideal antennas. So it is not just your send and receive but also others you may be communicating with.
Two transmitters--one antenna--yes I have done that with various ham radios, mostly in RV's, again using a specific splitter, for specific frequencies, relays etc.--considerably different and more expensive than what you may use for VHF and FM radio.
Buy two antennas if you want to use two different radios to transmit with. It is not related to specific frequencies--it is overloading and damaging the receiving end of the radio which is not transmitting. I have two antennas on the top of the C Dory.
Regards.
Bob,
Thanks for the reply on the use of 2 vhf on the same antenna with a splitter. Didn't know there was that much loss,
Not wanting to over drive the receiver on the VHF is why I have the VHF and AM/FM sharing the splitter. When I add the active AIS transponder, I need to dedicate that antenna (Shakespeare) to the AIS so was wondering about sharing the splitter between the VHF's onto the Commrod, hoping to not need to add another antenna (have 2 up there already) and I have limited realestate up there. Not really wanting to ad more antennae if there is another good solution. i am open to suggestion, or am I stuck with adding a 3rd antenna?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
__________________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
Thanks for the reply on the use of 2 vhf on the same antenna with a splitter. Didn't know there was that much loss,
Not wanting to over drive the receiver on the VHF is why I have the VHF and AM/FM sharing the splitter. When I add the active AIS transponder, I need to dedicate that antenna (Shakespeare) to the AIS so was wondering about sharing the splitter between the VHF's onto the Commrod, hoping to not need to add another antenna (have 2 up there already) and I have limited realestate up there. Not really wanting to ad more antennae if there is another good solution. i am open to suggestion, or am I stuck with adding a 3rd antenna?
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
__________________________
Though in our sleep we are not conscious of our activity or surroundings, we should not, in our wakefulness, be unconscious of our sleep.
You will get those same losses with an active AIS. Every time you add a coax fitting there will be some loss--usually about 1 dB per connector. To keep the antenna profile down, I would consider the 5250 AIS 3' whip. You will not gain significant distance by putting an 8 foot (5 more feet) antenna up there. You won't have the losses to the AIS (which are just as great on both transmit and receive as the VHF) plus you will have an antenna tuned to that part of the band which is used by AIS--just a little more reduction on SWR.
The plan was for the active AIS to go to the Stbd antenna, the Shakespeare steel whip, direct, and not to go through a splitter. The 2 VHF's were going to share the fg 8ft Commrod on port. Now I am thinking I should add a third antenna, the 3 ft whip, to run the AIS from.
How far apart, realistically, do I need to keep the AIS from the other antenna's? It's a 22, and I only have (basically), the cabin roof for mounting on.
Rethinking this system. Thanks for the input.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
How far apart, realistically, do I need to keep the AIS from the other antenna's? It's a 22, and I only have (basically), the cabin roof for mounting on.
Rethinking this system. Thanks for the input.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Here is my thought: If you have two VHF radios sharing the same antenna, you will only be using one at a time. I have two VHF radios so I can monitor several channels at once. Such as 16 and the VTS channel for your area, or commercial traffic in harbors or waterways without VTS. With a manual switch you can only use one radio. Again, I would be reluctant to have an auto switch on VHF, because of loss of power on output.
I would put the 3rd antenna at least 3 feet from the other antennas. (Ideally it would be 6 feet, but with only 2 watts form the AIS B transmitter, I don't see any potential for overload on the VHF channels. Probably in your boat just in front of or in back of the loud hailer. The radar will not interfere and the antenna will not be an obstruction for radar. In our boats we have put antenna mounts on the hand rails aft, and used a rapid mount/demount system, so when we put the dinghy on the roof that the antenna can be removed. But that may not be best for AIS.
Which AIS brand product are you going to purchase?
I would put the 3rd antenna at least 3 feet from the other antennas. (Ideally it would be 6 feet, but with only 2 watts form the AIS B transmitter, I don't see any potential for overload on the VHF channels. Probably in your boat just in front of or in back of the loud hailer. The radar will not interfere and the antenna will not be an obstruction for radar. In our boats we have put antenna mounts on the hand rails aft, and used a rapid mount/demount system, so when we put the dinghy on the roof that the antenna can be removed. But that may not be best for AIS.
Which AIS brand product are you going to purchase?
Thanks again for the reply. I hadn't thought "center mount" so was considering towards aft on the port side cabin roof. Don't like to get it too close to my direction finder for the Auto Pilot, which is in that aft, portside corner, since the AIS will be transmitting on a continuous (well more so than the VHF's anyway.)
A manual switch between the VHS would work good for isolation purposes, but defeat the second radio feature. I can listen to two at a time, but can't talk on more than one at a time.
http://www.vespermarine.com/transponder ... sion.html/
The AIS will be a WatchMate Vision AIS Transponder includes built-in WiFi, NMEA 2000® & 0183, GPS receiver and GPS antenna, with it's own monitor, making it capable of being a standalone device. No need to connect to RayMarine system. It has a somewhat crude shoreline mapping, and the availability to monitor course in the heading up mode.... and a filtering system to eliminate the unwanted signals should they arrive.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
A manual switch between the VHS would work good for isolation purposes, but defeat the second radio feature. I can listen to two at a time, but can't talk on more than one at a time.
http://www.vespermarine.com/transponder ... sion.html/
The AIS will be a WatchMate Vision AIS Transponder includes built-in WiFi, NMEA 2000® & 0183, GPS receiver and GPS antenna, with it's own monitor, making it capable of being a standalone device. No need to connect to RayMarine system. It has a somewhat crude shoreline mapping, and the availability to monitor course in the heading up mode.... and a filtering system to eliminate the unwanted signals should they arrive.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
If you are referring to a gyro rated fluxgate compass for the "direction finder" of the auto pilot; a low power transmitting at the frequency of AIS should have no effect. If you were transmitting on HF with high power, that would be an entirely different story. Just be sure that the coax stays about 3 feet from the compass.
At this point the Vesper Watch mate would also be my choice for AIS class B. You should be able to view that on your RayMarine if you wanted, however the relative position of the vessels is far more important than the land features.
At this point the Vesper Watch mate would also be my choice for AIS class B. You should be able to view that on your RayMarine if you wanted, however the relative position of the vessels is far more important than the land features.
Hi Bob,
Yes, agree the relative position of the vessels is the priority. In my case the Watchmate will not be linked to teh RayMarine system, but instead will be entirely stand alone.
I have been talking with the electronics guys at Rodgers Marine in Portland and they have come up with some excellent info.
1) The Standard Horizon 2150 can be reset at the factory to ignore (filter, I think is what they called it, the AIS signal that is being sent out from my own boat via the Watchmate on my MMSI#. That is going to be the relief of a huge headache.
2) The VesperMarine company produces a "splitter" that is perfect for my application. VHF and AIS on the same antenna, AND it has a signal gain of 12.5 db on AIS receive. Yes there will be some loss, Less than 1db on the Tx side, iguess because of the extra connections required, but it seems like it should work to me. Here is a link to the splitter:
http://www.vespermarine.com/antennas-sp ... ifications
Does it look like, to you that this is a viable alternative to adding an extra antenna?
Thank you for your help on this.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Yes, agree the relative position of the vessels is the priority. In my case the Watchmate will not be linked to teh RayMarine system, but instead will be entirely stand alone.
I have been talking with the electronics guys at Rodgers Marine in Portland and they have come up with some excellent info.
1) The Standard Horizon 2150 can be reset at the factory to ignore (filter, I think is what they called it, the AIS signal that is being sent out from my own boat via the Watchmate on my MMSI#. That is going to be the relief of a huge headache.
2) The VesperMarine company produces a "splitter" that is perfect for my application. VHF and AIS on the same antenna, AND it has a signal gain of 12.5 db on AIS receive. Yes there will be some loss, Less than 1db on the Tx side, iguess because of the extra connections required, but it seems like it should work to me. Here is a link to the splitter:
http://www.vespermarine.com/antennas-sp ... ifications
Does it look like, to you that this is a viable alternative to adding an extra antenna?
Thank you for your help on this.
Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Harvey, the reason it has 12.5 dB gain, is that it has an amplifier for the AIS in signal. What I don't know is what the SWRE and loss will be when you have the whole rig set up specifically on your boat, and that can only be determined when it is set up, and with some sophisticated equipment.
They recommend using their VHF/AIS antenna. AIS is 6 MHZ higher than the VHF signal--so on your VHF antenna there will be some miss match--the may or may not be made up by the amplifier in the AIS.
Remember when you are transmitting on VHF, you will not receive the AIS. When AIS is transmitting, you will not receive the VHF.
This splitter is better than the "simple" dumb splitter.
My choice would be the cheaper, and in many ways better, specific AIS antenna, and VHF antenna. There is no loss of signal of either device when there is transmission on the other. There is an antenna specifically tuned for the frequency which is being broadcast or received. There is going to be less loss. There is going to be better SWR with specific antennas. I have made this choice a number of times with my 2 meter ham radio gear (just below the VHF marine frequency, and the marine antenna will "work", but with some loss.
Your choice.
They recommend using their VHF/AIS antenna. AIS is 6 MHZ higher than the VHF signal--so on your VHF antenna there will be some miss match--the may or may not be made up by the amplifier in the AIS.
Remember when you are transmitting on VHF, you will not receive the AIS. When AIS is transmitting, you will not receive the VHF.
This splitter is better than the "simple" dumb splitter.
My choice would be the cheaper, and in many ways better, specific AIS antenna, and VHF antenna. There is no loss of signal of either device when there is transmission on the other. There is an antenna specifically tuned for the frequency which is being broadcast or received. There is going to be less loss. There is going to be better SWR with specific antennas. I have made this choice a number of times with my 2 meter ham radio gear (just below the VHF marine frequency, and the marine antenna will "work", but with some loss.
Your choice.
Thanks Bob, you have been very thorough. I do appreciate your help here. Without, I would have not had as effective system. I have been trying to avoid putting another antenna up. As it looks now, I am going to pull the splitter out from between the Ray218 VHF and AM/FM and put the 218 directly to the 8ft Commrod. Then put in the Vespar splitter between the Standard Horizon 2150 and the WatchMate AIS. That side will go to the Shakespeare 4ft that is mounted on a 24" riser, so I will continue to use a marine vhf tuned antenna there. The AM/FM will plug into the Vespar splitter on it's own dedicated bnc port and gets a receiver gain as well.
I have considered Putting the SH 2150 onto the Commrod to separate it totally from the AIS (I am using the AIS receive on it to go to the RayMarine Classic 120 - providing AIS contact points onto the plotter display.) It is also the radio I usually use for contacts other than on 16. This arrangement would eliminate the plotter AIS display pausing when the vhf is used or when the Watchmate AIS bursts are transmitted.
Another consideration: the Standard Horizon will see the active AIS transmitting from it's own position and on the same MMSI and will put that on the plotter as an AIS contact, and that will generate a "Dangerous Target" warning ..... constantly. NOT GOOD. So, the fix is in. Standard Horizon's newer 2150's have a setting to filter that signal from it's own MMSI out. The Good Part is that my (And currently any 2150 under 3 years old,) can be sent back to Standard Horizon, and they will put that filter in and activate it.
That little tidbit came from MartyK at Rodger's Marine in Portland.
So the radio has to come out and go for a trip, but it will be better for it.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
I have considered Putting the SH 2150 onto the Commrod to separate it totally from the AIS (I am using the AIS receive on it to go to the RayMarine Classic 120 - providing AIS contact points onto the plotter display.) It is also the radio I usually use for contacts other than on 16. This arrangement would eliminate the plotter AIS display pausing when the vhf is used or when the Watchmate AIS bursts are transmitted.
Another consideration: the Standard Horizon will see the active AIS transmitting from it's own position and on the same MMSI and will put that on the plotter as an AIS contact, and that will generate a "Dangerous Target" warning ..... constantly. NOT GOOD. So, the fix is in. Standard Horizon's newer 2150's have a setting to filter that signal from it's own MMSI out. The Good Part is that my (And currently any 2150 under 3 years old,) can be sent back to Standard Horizon, and they will put that filter in and activate it.
That little tidbit came from MartyK at Rodger's Marine in Portland.
So the radio has to come out and go for a trip, but it will be better for it.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon