Permatrim---thumbs up or thumbs down?

A new Honda 90 (2007) was installed on my new 2005 19' C-Dory. :D The boat has trim tabs. I ordered and have received the correct Permatrim for that engine. Because I am so pleased with the added performance of the Permatrim on my 16' C-Dory and because I'm missing the 3 ft. off the 22' Dory I'm thinking I'll get the lift from the transom the 19 needs to get out of the water and carry that 90 engine. :roll: Now...someone has said, why would I want to drill holes in the cavitation plate and add strain to the engine mounts and ware them out. :idea: I never thought that the Permatrim would put so much vibration and strain on the engine mounts that it would be a problem. Any one want to comment on that one :?: I'd really appreciate some knowledgeable feed back on that one. :idea
 
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Compare the "forces" from the foreward thrust of the engine (which is the dominate force) vs the "drag" whch is induced by the force of the Permatrim. You will find that the engine mounts are more than adequate to take the relitatively small additional force which comes from the Permatrims. I have been using fins on smaller motors for over 30 years and never saw a problem--proportionally the fins give more drag/lift on the smaller engines. There have been some broken cavitation plates from some improperly installed fins, but none to my knowege with Permatrims.
 
Regarding 5200, be careful when just using it as a sealant. I had to have the outboard bracket removed from Journey On. The factory had glued it on with 5200 (also using 4 bolts.) I tried some liquid solvent. Didn't do squat. The boatyard used heat and got it off. That stuff is hard to get rid of.

For sealant only, I'd use something easier to remove, such as 4200. Silicone breaks apart easier, but I haven't found anything to get rid of the last remnants.

Boris
 
Though I post the results of the installation of the Permatrim on my repowered new to me C-dory 19'er. The 2007 Honda 90 is the only engine I have experienced on the Dory.
I ran the boat without the Permatrim is absolutely calm water (like glass). Used the trim tabs for bow up bow down. All was OK but the boat seemed slugish and steering seemed tight. I could almost steer with the trim tabs and felt the drag on each side when I pitched down. I felt a better plane and speed with tabs up. Less drag but bow higher than comfortable. I couldn't tell speed because I have not yet installed GPS. It's sitting here.
I installed the Permatrim. If I say myself, perfect job. (beautiful). I also dropped in prop size to the standard sea level prop for a Honda 75.
Went out yesterday onto the same perfect water conditions. Absolutely flat water. Not a breath of wind. The performance of the boat might of increased 25%. The engine turned 5500 rpms. I didn't need the trim tabs at all and therefore reduced the drag at the stern. Bow up and down smooth as butter. The steering became much smoother and less tight. I felt the boat to lift higher from the water. I experienced a nice cruising plane at 4000 rpms. I'm totally stoked with this increased performance.
I don't think it is as much related to the prop as to the Permatrim.
 
We bolted ours on to try it out--(didn't use the nylox for the trial)--and after we were satisfied that we would keep the Permatrims, we went with the 5200. I have removed items which had been 5200ed...but used both the antibond, plus heat. I figured the Permatrims would stay on. Not sure that my rational is correct that the 5200 would spread out the bearing surface of adhesion or not...

The Boat Life will not have the adherance--but should work fine.
 
I committed with 5200 as well. I tried to use enough to fill the crevice between the Permatrim and engine plate to keep saltwater from sitting there and causing corrosion. I tooled it smooth with rags dampened with mineral spirits for a neat appearance. Hopefully I won't regret this approach. Later, Mike.
 
I used 4200, seems to work fine after my first 45 nm trip.
 
I have twin Honda 40s. Installation was quite easy (the instructions say to remove the props), but I found that unnecessary.

The biggest improvement was on the low end. In my case, that was beneficial, as speed limits on most of the 500 miles of canals (incl. the Erie Canal) are 10 mph. With the Permatrims, I can stay on plane at that speed (or even a tad less).
 
OK, I hope you guys know what you're talking about here. I received my Permatrim today and will be putting it on before the boat floats next.

I want to commend the US vendor for Permatrim. I placed my order online last Wednesday night and used an AMEX card to pay. Thursday I got a phone message from them saying that even though their web site store accepted the card they had not yet set their account up with AMEX. In the message the lady asked me to call in a different card if I could or wait a week for the card to work. I returned the call a few minutes later and she told me that they had already decided to process the order as placed and ship the thing right away. They would do the waiting for AMEX on their end. I got a note from them shortly after UPS delivered the package today telling me the card transaction went through just fine and thanking me again for my order. It's refreshing to still find mutual trust. They are pretty nice folks, too, and easy to talk to.

Now then, if this Permadeal doesn't lift my butt out of the water, increase my speed by 20% and double my fuel economy I may never be able to trust what I read on a web forum again.
 
OK folks, we finally snookered old Tyboo Mike.

On the serious side, I think you will like the difference that the Permatrims bring
 
Oh, I've been snookered before. The Lenco trim tab guys got me good and that's why I am trying the Permatrim. My tabs are scarcely adequate and I'm hoping the foil will let me use the tabs more for the lateral and less for the bow down stuff. I'm also hoping it will do it without costing any speed because I am kind of underpowered with 130 on my heavy old boat. We'll see.

I do have a bit of faith in it helping, though.
PermaDork.thumb.jpg
I was so sure I didn't even try the PermaDork before buying the real thing.
 
I only put my "twin" engines down about 10 deg (not an exact figure) so that the prop angle to the water flow is decent, then I use my oversized trim tabs to do any additional needed for bow down/up attitude and lateral balance. I really like mine.

You made a good move Mike, can't say you'll get 20% increase speed though (tongue in cheek I'm sure...). Let us know how the install goes, and of course the performance. :smile
 
What are you guys on commission? After hearing all this, I have to get some. Does West Marine sell them? Thanks guys.......
 
I can't find one here in the willamette valley either.
 
There is only one dealer in the United States and Mike bought there. Shipyard Island Marina.

The original vendor was conveniently located in San Diego where I got mine, but he finally retired and turned everything over to Shipyard Island Marina.

I too have nothing but good to say about both Permatrim and trim tabs in single engine installations. If I had two outboards I'd forego the tabs in favor of Permatrim. Much faster and finer control, and the difference in control at docking speed is remarkable.

Don
 
Looks like Mike ordered the Afterburner version of Permadeal:
"Now then, if this Permadeal doesn't lift my butt out of the water, increase my speed by 20% and double my fuel economy..."
_________________
TyBoo Mike
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Funny, I don't remember the F-4 Phantoms getting all that extra speed, and economy when they lit up the burners.

Don't have them (yet), interested in more feed back on use with the low powered twins, (40's or 50's) on the 22's :?: Curious about the low speed control, (how is it better?) and could you stand on them and tilt up the OB's to help get someone aboard out of the water? (the example of that was with a big single, so I assume it is a bigger, sturdier foil blade.) Anyone with Twin 40 Yamaha's specifically?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Mine are plenty sturdy enough to stand on, at least for my 80's. In fact, their little install guide says not to stand on them when the motor is running -- as a safety item.
 
Great info here about Permatrim. Would it be fair to ask you fans "what if you could only have one, Permatrim or trim tabs, which would you choose"? There's a purpose in my asking.

Thanks in advance.

Harper
 
jhwilson":752auvwr said:
Great info here about Permatrim. Would it be fair to ask you fans "what if you could only have one, Permatrim or trim tabs, which would you choose"?
Harper
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I have both. 2 years trim tabs only, one year tabs and permatrim. I'd have to say Permatrim if I'm stuck with only one choice. Athwartship trim is easily compensated for with load/passenger shifts and even the water tank makes a good trim tank if you're alone, but fore/aft trim is quick, positive, and easy with the Permatrim.

I think the vertical sides of the Permatrim definitely add rudder-like features to the device and that really enhances slow speed steering control.

Of course you can't run with a 2 degree down bubble, but that's reserved for submarines. :wink

Don
 
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