After much deliberation, we have decided to look for a 25 cruuser. I'm seeing lots of options but looking for a preowned boat probably a little limited on which outboard. 115 Mercury, twin 90 Hondas, 130 Honda, or Yamaha. I'm partial toward Yamaha but not familiar with engines of this size. Any advice would be much appreciated. Thanks
Outboard options
- Thread starter Frodo
- Start date
smckean (Tosca)
New member
Unless you are going to mostly day-trip and be lightly loaded, I would not have less than 150 horses on a CD25. 200 HP is even better.
Agree with smckean: I have owned one 25 with the Honda 130. It was underpowered--and a Merc 115 would be even more underpowered--unless you were just content with displacement/semi-displacement speeds.
The 2007 25 we currently own has the Honda 150, and it is adequate. Better would be the 200 hp. (2 90's might add a bit more weight than I would like--but at least check it out). If I was buying a new boat, or re-powering--since we run a heavy boat--outfitted with food and gear for a month at a time, I would opt for the higher HP,
Yamaha is certainly a good choice. But all of the motors are good and if you take care of them will give years and at least several thousand hours of service.
We also find the fiberglass interior to be a more preferable than the wood--but there is not much difference.
The 2007 25 we currently own has the Honda 150, and it is adequate. Better would be the 200 hp. (2 90's might add a bit more weight than I would like--but at least check it out). If I was buying a new boat, or re-powering--since we run a heavy boat--outfitted with food and gear for a month at a time, I would opt for the higher HP,
Yamaha is certainly a good choice. But all of the motors are good and if you take care of them will give years and at least several thousand hours of service.
We also find the fiberglass interior to be a more preferable than the wood--but there is not much difference.
Frodo":320e48sx said:
After 3 trips with a honda 130 on my "03" 25 Cruiser I replaced it with a 175 Suzuki had there been a Yamaha 200 in a 2000mi radius that is what would be on it now. Having put 1800 trouble free hrs on the 175 Suzuki in the last 6 yrs the next one might just be a Suzi 200,
. :wink:
:beerI had twin Honda 90's on my CD 26 Venture.
I could find no fault with this setup.
Now, I'd get the twin 100s not for top end
just would not work as hard. Probably no difference..
Baloney on too stern heavy.
Better fuel economy with a single 200hp,
some may argue, but visual and docking ease
give twins the prize.
Aye.
I could find no fault with this setup.
Now, I'd get the twin 100s not for top end
just would not work as hard. Probably no difference..
Baloney on too stern heavy.
Better fuel economy with a single 200hp,
some may argue, but visual and docking ease
give twins the prize.
Aye.
I just had the opportunity to do a sea trial on a CD-25 with a Honda 200. That boat WAS NOT under powered, by any means. Twin 90's or 100's would be perfect. If you are going into Canada, the Yamaha should be first choice, Honda should be off the list (lots of info on that here and other places), but that would be a choice you would have to make.
Know what you want, have your $$$ ready, because the good ones will go fast. Also, should be willing to look around, (the state or country not just the county) as sometimes the deal needs to include some travel and transport.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Know what you want, have your $$$ ready, because the good ones will go fast. Also, should be willing to look around, (the state or country not just the county) as sometimes the deal needs to include some travel and transport.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Frodo":1fo9e9kg said:
You are thinking right. Love my twins :love :thup :thup
Here's one to check out, just came up and Heinz has taken great care of his boat.
http://www.c-brats.com/viewtopic.php?t=26966&highlight=
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
There area multiple arguments twins vs single and these have been covered many times in these forums. There is definitely a difference in the weight--for example the new Yahama F200 weight is 231# less than the two Honda 90's. Anyone who tells you there is no effect of 231# on the Transom of a C Dory 25, does not know what they are talking about. There is the argument of 2x maintenance for two large engines over one larger. Yes there is some improvement in close quarters handling--but not as much as twin inboards--and it depends on if the engines are counter rotating (as they should be). Any of the C Dory boats are maneuverable with an experienced skipper. I have never felt the need for twins as a criteria for close quarter use of the C Dory 25. Some prefer a large main and a smaller kicker for slow trolling speeds--and which can be used for the dinghy motor. We use a 3.5 hp Merc as our kicker and dinghy motor: Weight is 30#. Larger kicker motors--such as a high thrust 8 hp or 9.9 hp Yamaha would be under 90#. If you have twins and then a separate dinghy motor--that means 3 outboards to maintain.Frodo":1p4kay8v said:
A lot depends on how heavy your boat is. The limiting speed on C Dory's is about 30 mph--beyond that the ride becomes a bit unstable. (The Venture series, with more dead rise will do better in the higher speeds). Most cruising is in the 17 to 25 mph. Because we often carry food and gear for extended periods--our boats are heavier than many. But the 150 is adequate for our purposes. Also if you spend time at higher elevations--there is a loss of about 3-4% per 1000' elevation--this is more noticeable in an engine with carburetors, than fuel injected. But you will want a lower pitched prop for a lake at 3500' elevation--and even lower pitch for 7000' elevation.
starcrafttom
Active member
Old story chevy vs ford, single vs twin. but it s not single vs twin , its twin vs single and a kicker. I would always go with a single and kicker. A 90 or 100 is not going to plane your 25cd , ever. If it would we would all run 100 singles. You are not going to gain any hull speed with a 100 ( well not much) over a 15hp kicker. Hull speed is hull speed.
So a kicker has several advantages over a twin set up. 1) on a cdory a twin set up is so close together that if you have a prop strike its 90% of the time going to take both motors. Most prop strikes are logs and they are wider then the boat. Second is nets or crab pot rope. Same thing. If that close together you are most likley (51%) of the time going to get both wrapped. So a kicker that is out of the water is protected from a prop strike. Same if you hit a reef.
2) Fuel. yes I run my kicker on the same tanks but I also keep , on long trips, a two gallon tank and extra fuel hose for the kicker. So if on a long trip I pick up bad fuel some place I have a isolated source of fuel. Most larger motors are ran straight from the tank to the motor. I know my 225 honda does not have a easy way to disconnect the motor from the main tanks and hook up a spare hose. which I might have to look into changing. But I have a kicker and 2 gallons will run my 15 hp honda for hours.
As far as maneuvering... practice more because i do not thing that twins on a CD25 or 22, which are set close together, add much to the equation. Unlike a tomcat where the motors are 5 ft apart.
Thats just my 2 cents to counter the " i bought twins so you should " crowd.
So a kicker has several advantages over a twin set up. 1) on a cdory a twin set up is so close together that if you have a prop strike its 90% of the time going to take both motors. Most prop strikes are logs and they are wider then the boat. Second is nets or crab pot rope. Same thing. If that close together you are most likley (51%) of the time going to get both wrapped. So a kicker that is out of the water is protected from a prop strike. Same if you hit a reef.
2) Fuel. yes I run my kicker on the same tanks but I also keep , on long trips, a two gallon tank and extra fuel hose for the kicker. So if on a long trip I pick up bad fuel some place I have a isolated source of fuel. Most larger motors are ran straight from the tank to the motor. I know my 225 honda does not have a easy way to disconnect the motor from the main tanks and hook up a spare hose. which I might have to look into changing. But I have a kicker and 2 gallons will run my 15 hp honda for hours.
As far as maneuvering... practice more because i do not thing that twins on a CD25 or 22, which are set close together, add much to the equation. Unlike a tomcat where the motors are 5 ft apart.
Thats just my 2 cents to counter the " i bought twins so you should " crowd.
I am so thankful for the wisdom of Dr. Bob and Thomas (Thataway and Starcrafttom) and their wisdom on Single vs. Twin engine opinions. These are veteran boaters that have great knowledge and wisdom in boating that I greatly respect.
I recommend that you give great consideration to their opinions on this subject. Because of these individuals and others on C-Brats we chose to go with a Single and kicker engine.
We have no problem landing (docking) our boat with a single. To have a kicker out of the water, when not in use and to be used for an emergency, trolling for salmon or just plain cruising slowly in the San Juans for best fuel economy is a good thing.
I recommend that you give great consideration to their opinions on this subject. Because of these individuals and others on C-Brats we chose to go with a Single and kicker engine.
We have no problem landing (docking) our boat with a single. To have a kicker out of the water, when not in use and to be used for an emergency, trolling for salmon or just plain cruising slowly in the San Juans for best fuel economy is a good thing.
I bought twins & when they are worn out, I will likely purchase another set, . Twins work for me & they please my eyes more than a single & kicker on a CD 22 & 25, but I don’t think they are the best choice for all. Many, I’ve compared with get better mileage with their single & kicker set up, then our twins & the points about hitting logs or other obstacles with both motors down at speed or entangling them in ropes or nets perhaps valid. Though in 23,000 miles of boating with our CD 22, I’ve several times hit obstacles or entangled a rope in a prop, but never taken out one prop let alone both & with rope entanglements, several times one prop never both at once. Yes the kicker out of the water is protected, but when needed immediately not as fast to put in operation as a twin when operating on the other. I have many times, while running on just one of the twins, entangled it in ropes or kelp & was immediately able to switch to the other, in those places I would have been in deep doo doo in the time it would have taken to employ a kicker. Yes, hull speed is hull speed, but the torque & slightly more speed developed in a CD22 with a 40 or 50 hp or 90 to 100 in a CD25 twin will give much more boat control vs a kicker in rougher sea conditions. I most certainly in 2007 would not have made the run from Juneau to Skagway on a kicker, like I did on the 40 hp twin, when having motor problems & my job depended on my returning home on time. In places like the Yukon River if the main is lost & a wrong channel is entered, the kicker will never make way against the current, whereas I found with the boat moderately loaded, the single 40 hp with a on the low end pitch prop, 6 mph could be maintained against a 6 mph current. As far as maneuverability with a single or twins it takes practice with either to become proficient & even more with twins. I still dock most of the time using just the one motor & the other in neutral & ready to use as a back up, should the one I’m using have problems. In very tight places even without counter rotating props, I’ve found the maneuverability to be enhanced with the twins. In fact there are several times without the twins, I likely would have made unwanted contact with other boats or obstacles.
For those who spend the majority of there time at planing speed & fishing or don’t tend to get to far out on a limb a single & kicker is most likely the better choice, the twins work best for me & if money wasn’t an obstacle in choice of future motor replacement, twin Tohatsu 60’s would be my first choice. They weigh 239 pounds apiece, which makes them a total of only 56 lbs heavier than my present twin Honda’s & the total 80 hp Honda’s on Yellowstone Lake only put out 61 hp due to the elevation. I can cruise at a max of 19 mph there, so with these twin 60’s set up, one would always have a spare that could plane the boat if needed. With the right pitched props, I think the same could be done with twin 100’s on a CD25.
I should add on the old pitch adjustable plastic pro pulse props, I’ve taken out individual blades, but never on both props at once & I have dinged up aluminum props, but only have ruined one. That was in 2016 on the Yukon River while going to shore. When I hit reverse a chunk of wood jammed in between a aluminum prop blade & the zinc directional anode. The anode came loose spun around & into the prop taken off all the blades.
Jay
For those who spend the majority of there time at planing speed & fishing or don’t tend to get to far out on a limb a single & kicker is most likely the better choice, the twins work best for me & if money wasn’t an obstacle in choice of future motor replacement, twin Tohatsu 60’s would be my first choice. They weigh 239 pounds apiece, which makes them a total of only 56 lbs heavier than my present twin Honda’s & the total 80 hp Honda’s on Yellowstone Lake only put out 61 hp due to the elevation. I can cruise at a max of 19 mph there, so with these twin 60’s set up, one would always have a spare that could plane the boat if needed. With the right pitched props, I think the same could be done with twin 100’s on a CD25.
I should add on the old pitch adjustable plastic pro pulse props, I’ve taken out individual blades, but never on both props at once & I have dinged up aluminum props, but only have ruined one. That was in 2016 on the Yukon River while going to shore. When I hit reverse a chunk of wood jammed in between a aluminum prop blade & the zinc directional anode. The anode came loose spun around & into the prop taken off all the blades.
Jay
If looking for a used CD 25, I would think twin 90's would be a great choice, especially if they were fuel-injected. I currently have a single/kicker setup which runs fine but have had twins in the past and would much rather have twins for my use pattern. I think the chief reason is with twins, both motors are getting exercised equally whenever you use the boat. In my case my life has been too busy for frequent boat use, so the motors sit idle for sometimes months. Because I haven't fished much, the kicker sits idle even longer. With a new 2014 boat my main engine has only ~150 hours, and I'd bet the kicker has less than 20 total hours. I don't think that's good for the kicker motor, esp. one with a carb. If my primary use was fishing I'd probably lean more towards a single/kicker setup.
I agree full with Jay. Twins are not for everybody. I have nearly 14 years on my boat, 1400 hours, and average 40 nights a year. At no time have I ever had a prop strike or line entanglement involving both props. Once I collected a big wad of fishing line that took out one blade on a plastic ProPulse prop. One time while checking out a shallow anchorage spot I contacted a rock and dinged an aluminum prop on 2 blades, both repairable. Once I caught a small brushey branch infront of the legs of both sides. It was about 3/4" diameter and 5 ft long with some branching on one end. Made a crazy, splashy wake right behind the boat and I noticed the difference in sound, but no hit or damage.
As to twins, position, and control: yes it takes practice, on the 22, the OB size is going to dictate "no counter rotation" so you use what you have And I would challange anyone with a single and kicker to turn their boat 360° within it's own length, or walk it sideways while maintaining it's fore/aft axis like you can do with twins.
Yes there is a 2x cost for filters, water pump impellers, belts etc, but none of that adds up to the gain in esthetic appeal of a pair of twin hugging low on the transom. Can you get by with out, yes, and there are those who do but if you don't know what you are missing, do you really miss it :wink
Harvey Harvey
SleepyC :moon SleepyC :moon
:wink :wink
As to twins, position, and control: yes it takes practice, on the 22, the OB size is going to dictate "no counter rotation" so you use what you have And I would challange anyone with a single and kicker to turn their boat 360° within it's own length, or walk it sideways while maintaining it's fore/aft axis like you can do with twins.
Yes there is a 2x cost for filters, water pump impellers, belts etc, but none of that adds up to the gain in esthetic appeal of a pair of twin hugging low on the transom. Can you get by with out, yes, and there are those who do but if you don't know what you are missing, do you really miss it :wink
Harvey Harvey
SleepyC :moon SleepyC :moon
:wink :wink
Twins vs singles is like religion--What works for some--may not be the best for others. (On the other hand--Harvey, can you really walk the boat sideways to either direction with non counter rotation twins?). I routinely pivot my single engine boats in their own length--but it takes use of throttle/shifter and wheel. And is done in the same direction. In the same vein, I can walk the single engine boats to one side--but not the other.
I just finished reading "Arctic Solitaire". For that type of high latitude, remote area running and Jay's running rivers, I would get equal twins. (yes you can plane a C Dory 22 with a single 50: if fitted with lower pitch prop--and the boat is light.) There are some 25's which came with single 50's--as there are a few rare C Dory 25's with single 115's (same block as the 130).
A lot is what you are used to and what you are comfortable with--in over 75 years of boat ownership and skippering--I have only owned two twin engine boats: One was the Tom Cat 255. The other was a 42 foot motor yacht with high profile, with counter rotating inboards. That boat would walk in either direction. I have owned boats up to 62 feet with singles--and managed to put them where I wanted without damage to my boat or others. Some times it takes a bit of planing and jockeying
But none of this really helps the buyer (Frodo) decide what 25 to buy. The engine / engines, are only part of the equation. All of these other factors should be considered:
Model year of boat, fiberglass vs wood interior, condition of the boat, (I also consider carburetor vs injection), electronics, camper back, engine hours and how the engine surveys and runs, accessories like windless, trailer, electronics etc... I recently rejected a 25 which had sea water cooled (built in ) air conditioning--because it took up so much storage room and would not work when the boat was used as a "Boater Home" in campgrounds.
If you want twins, then get a boat with twins. You will love the boat no matter what the engines are--and can come back and join the argument on how much better twins are over singles...!!
I just finished reading "Arctic Solitaire". For that type of high latitude, remote area running and Jay's running rivers, I would get equal twins. (yes you can plane a C Dory 22 with a single 50: if fitted with lower pitch prop--and the boat is light.) There are some 25's which came with single 50's--as there are a few rare C Dory 25's with single 115's (same block as the 130).
A lot is what you are used to and what you are comfortable with--in over 75 years of boat ownership and skippering--I have only owned two twin engine boats: One was the Tom Cat 255. The other was a 42 foot motor yacht with high profile, with counter rotating inboards. That boat would walk in either direction. I have owned boats up to 62 feet with singles--and managed to put them where I wanted without damage to my boat or others. Some times it takes a bit of planing and jockeying
But none of this really helps the buyer (Frodo) decide what 25 to buy. The engine / engines, are only part of the equation. All of these other factors should be considered:
Model year of boat, fiberglass vs wood interior, condition of the boat, (I also consider carburetor vs injection), electronics, camper back, engine hours and how the engine surveys and runs, accessories like windless, trailer, electronics etc... I recently rejected a 25 which had sea water cooled (built in ) air conditioning--because it took up so much storage room and would not work when the boat was used as a "Boater Home" in campgrounds.
If you want twins, then get a boat with twins. You will love the boat no matter what the engines are--and can come back and join the argument on how much better twins are over singles...!!
starcrafttom
Active member
harvey my friend you would lose money to me all day long on that one. i can ans often do turn my 27 in a boat length or less. with the single main.
Jay , my kicker is the same set up as my main. Hi the down tilt button and then the start key. its already hooked to the steering, game one.
Tom, your single/kicker is well set up & it does allow for the kicker to be activated as quickly as with twins & I imagine with the main down & off you have fairly good boat control running on the kicker. I feel more comfortable when out on the open gulf side of the SE Alaska waters, it’s kicking up in the more inland waters or on a remote river, having a spare motor with a much larger prop & power then a kicker can provide. I also spend considerable time exploring in very thin water, where boat control is just as important as clearing the obstacles under the prop. The smaller prop & lower unit of the 40 hp over a single 90 hp or equivalent has given me the clearance to avoid contact at the same time boat control superior to a kicker. It’s a happy medium that’s worked well for me.
Jay
Jay