Out numbered

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1TUBERIDER

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My first trip out this summer (I built a 16 x 18 room addition) on opening day of salmon season for us (10 days) and besides no fish at the end of the day we were swarmed by uniformed personnel at the boat ramp.

No joke at least 30 uniformed officer types. Mostly coast guard, and sheriff and fish and game and cgaux.

The boat ramp is shut down due to "inspections" and the docks are empty. I seize the opportunity to launch my vessel due to everyone being busy. So on my way down to the water as I unhooked the bow I get the I need to see your registration.
I respond with let me get launched tied off and do it on the dock. Ok. Avoid the mess up above and get tied off and no registration. So I go back to the office get the registration and go thru the exam. I pass and we are underway.

My complaint. Do they authorities need to do such a show of force? 100% of vessels were inspected and the ramp was totally shut down. They kept many boats from launching because their lights did not work(it was somewhat foggy) and just generally ruined a day of fishing for many on one of the ten days of fishing for ocean salmon. It delayed our motoring out for at least an hour and put us out really late.

I like the job they do, but this seems like martial law. Not right and to bring the boat ramp to a stand still with 100% inspection. They were professional in their duty.

On returning the show was over but fish and game and the counters had to check our empty fish box. Sure would have been nice if the 10 days were a month ago when the fish were here.

Never seen such a display of color at the boat ramp before. Not sure I want to see it again. I bought my boat to fish(which got shut down after my purchase) and now to be hassled on the few days I can fish makes me want to get out.

Boat for sale or trade for a big sail boat.
 
Was this CG aux voluntary decal exam, or was it offical "boarding" type of exam? It sounds like the latter. I have never seen a ramp shut down because of this. Generally if there are even manditory boardings, they will take only a few boats, not the entire lot.

Wow--maybe you have too many LEO or CG stationed at your facility, and we need to cut back so that they can do their enforcement duties...and go after the real bad guys.

Did they check to see if the bilge pump worked? (that apparently was the reason that the Cat capsized off TX and those 3 guys spent a week on the overturned boat. I understand that you have to have working lights, but to stop someone from launching during the day, because the lense was "foggy" seems a bit much.

Or is there something that we all have missed?
 
a few weeks ago, while fishing in elliot bay, the safe boat CG teams were out boarding every vessel, i was fourth in line, i have been boarded before in elliot bay (seems like each year during the hottest weeks of fishing in the bay, when they know there will be all kinds of folks on the water, they do the inspections), they did a much more thorough search than years past...
lights
horn
emergency equipment
vents on the fuel tanks, and flame arresters
pfd's, throwable, and appropriate sizes for passengers on board
fishing licenses, drivers licenses
checked to see than the vessel numbers matched my registration
fire ext.
they wanted to see any "cavities" in the boat
checked our fishing gear and cooler
and more

took about 30 minutes

they cited me for my fire extinguisher being under charged, when i got home i looked at the extinguisher and it was in the over charged area on the gauge, not under charged, and it had the tag on it showing it had been professionally filled only two months ago, i call the CG commanding officer and told him what happended and he took the citation off my record

i was very pleased with the crew, they were super nice but not the most knowledgeable, in all aspects, the boarding officer thought we had 4 lines in the water (there was only two of us on board) so i had to explain to him that we had two down riggers in the water, and two fishing lines, then when he asked to see any cavities in the boat i told him there were none, it was a flat bottom boat and he said "oh, that's why you have the downriggers, I get it now" i couldnt believe he didnt know what a downrigger was, but was able to give tickets out for fishing violations. Also on my paperwork, he listed my boat as a row boat, and after i told him that c-dory is spelled as it is (and i spelled it out letter by letter for him) he still spelled it seadory....

to late to make a long story short, but i have no complaints, they were friendly and respectful, just not up on their fishing i guess...
 
They did not check my bilge pump and the inspection was from the dock as they did not board.

The majority of Coast Guard personnel were from Eureka, but the cutter Dorado folks were their as was the sheriff's office and fish and game. The auxiliary folks were also there. An extra safe boat was in port and the cutter was patrolling out of the port later in the morning. A real show of color. And you know it was planned. They denied a lot of folks one of the few days they get to go fishing.

Looks like a new comprehensive way to get compliance as some here has reported similar tactics in their area. Its wrong. They can be less intrusive and sample the vessels instead of 100% of the vessels being examined. The boat ramp was basically shut down on one of the 10 days we were allowed to salmon fish.

Not letting vessels out during the day because of the fog seemed like a stretch for safety as the fog lifted later and the visibility when the fog was the worst was around 1/4 mile, surely enough visibility to maneuver but would have been tough to get back in port without the electronics until the fog lifted. These boats are fishing boats that are used in daylight hours and the lights hardly ever get used.

Looks like we pay a price to be free. When it intrudes to much are we still free?
I like liberty call.
 
Actually, Kevin - some of what you relate is a bit troubling.

CG "safety inspection" is sort of what exempts them from the normal requirement that there be some reason for the stop in the first place. Then, it is clear from your post that they were not only asking to do a safety inspection but also to "search," as you relate, and in "cavities." That just can't be justified legally under the authority to conduct safety inspections. It is what is called a "pretext" stop, and in most other circumstances, evidence from a pretext stop is suppressed for that very reason. You can of course consent to be searched, which cures any issue with the stop.

But these are different times, and I for one am not going to tell the 18 year olds with the automatic weapons that they can't search...any issue with that would be taken up later, if at all...


Catch 22":16ps4nvx said:
a few weeks ago, while fishing in elliot bay, the safe boat CG teams were out boarding every vessel, i was fourth in line, i have been boarded before in elliot bay (seems like each year during the hottest weeks of fishing in the bay, when they know there will be all kinds of folks on the water, they do the inspections), they did a much more thorough search than years past...
lights
horn
emergency equipment
vents on the fuel tanks, and flame arresters
pfd's, throwable, and appropriate sizes for passengers on board
fishing licenses, drivers licenses
checked to see than the vessel numbers matched my registration
fire ext.
they wanted to see any "cavities" in the boat
checked our fishing gear and cooler
and more

took about 30 minutes

they cited me for my fire extinguisher being under charged, when i got home i looked at the extinguisher and it was in the over charged area on the gauge, not under charged, and it had the tag on it showing it had been professionally filled only two months ago, i call the CG commanding officer and told him what happended and he took the citation off my record

i was very pleased with the crew, they were super nice but not the most knowledgeable, in all aspects, the boarding officer thought we had 4 lines in the water (there was only two of us on board) so i had to explain to him that we had two down riggers in the water, and two fishing lines, then when he asked to see any cavities in the boat i told him there were none, it was a flat bottom boat and he said "oh, that's why you have the downriggers, I get it now" i couldnt believe he didnt know what a downrigger was, but was able to give tickets out for fishing violations. Also on my paperwork, he listed my boat as a row boat, and after i told him that c-dory is spelled as it is (and i spelled it out letter by letter for him) he still spelled it seadory....

to late to make a long story short, but i have no complaints, they were friendly and respectful, just not up on their fishing i guess...
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With so many budgets being cut due to the recession, I would guess it's all about revenue enhancement. Out at Westport I was boarded by the Grays Harbor Sheriffs Department at the ramp. They had quite a backup going. They wanted to check your vessel while it was on the water and not on the trailer. I don't know why than other to issue you a citation if you were non compliant. I said I'd had never seen them down there before and was told that in the interest of safety that they would be doing more enforcement. They gave me a sticker to put on my window so they wouldn't bother me again. I asked if that was for them so they wouldn't be bothered with me since I was compliant. I received a wry smile.
Forrest
 
yeah i was a bit suprized at how intensely they searched each boat, i asked about it, and they said they would be inspecting every boat that day, while approaching the boat, they asked if i had any weapons on board, to which i replied "just a fillet knife", i don't remember if they asked permission to board, but i know i do remember him asking permission to enter the cabin, in general i got the sense that they were new to what they were doing, they did not seem sure of themselves anyway, they spent a good time aboard the other boat or two i watched them board as well
 
As for the coasties with all the drug bust in the area it makes since to do more searchs. Now I think that those searches should be done at the boarder or close to it.

Now the sheriff doing a saftey inspection? is that even legal?? They have no authority to do safety inspections.
 
Tom, I posted that very question on the Washington State Association of Municipal Attorneys email list and got a number of replies from government attorneys representing law enforcement (not prosecutors, the agency legal advisers). I will go back and dig them up and see if I can digest. The long and the short is that there is a statute that gives law enforcement officers authority for boating safety inspections.

And I have no objection to safety inspections - but the assertion that safety inspection authority slops over into authority to search at will without any articulable suspicion of wrong-doing, outside border areas or high drug traffic areas, that should just rub us all the wrong way. The Founding Fathers discovered the states weren't going to go for the Constitution without protection against that kind of government behavior. Not sure what we can do but we should be concerned, and voicing that concern.

starcrafttom":1b7i3cm5 said:
Now the sheriff doing a saftey inspection? is that even legal?? They have no authority to do safety inspections.
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starcrafttom":1ayaby3w said:
Now the sheriff doing a saftey inspection? is that even legal?? They have no authority to do safety inspections.
Click to expand...
Not a legal beagle, so I can not quote law. However, "courtesy" inspections at the ramp are common in Oregon, done by the sheriff's department marine officers. They just do basic stuff, off a list, and check you over. If you pass, you get a sticker (optional) so they know you've been inspected for the year. I assume if you do not pass, they tell you not to launch or you will be cited.

I've had my boat and gear checked by the marine patrol a couple of times, and they do not go probing. I know all of the officers who do this, so maybe they treat others differently. Doubt it, though,
 
I have the stickers to prove it happens in WA as well. Cornet bay last year, in the parking lot and they also went down the ramp and picked up some more customers.
Very courteous and very much akin to the USCG safety inspection.

Merv
 
The Grays Harbor Sheriffs Dept. didn't search my boat. The deputy ask for permission to come aboard. I said come on aboard. I assumed that he was WDFW enforcement so I showed him my fish (including a thirty pound king) and the six dungies I had on board. I told him he was welcome to check all the nooks and crannies for additional fish if he wished. He then said that he just liked to look at fish and wasn't with Fish and Wildlife but the Grays Harbor Sheriffs Department and he was there to perform a vessel safety inspection. He was very courteous and professional. I have no complaints on how I was treated.
Forrest
 
The last three years I've had the good fortune of having our boat inspected by David at the Bellingham gathering. The Coast Guard Auxiliary inspection sticker has been a huge time saver for me.
I fish out of Westport most weekends during the salmon season and as soon as the Coast Guard or sheriff dept. see the sticker they just tell us to have a good day and leave us alone.
This year has been different year for fisheries inspections. Our catch has only been looked at one time for 11 trips out of Westport and several in Puget Sound. In past years it seems fisheries met me at every dock I returned to.
 
So, how would you like to be boarded by the park ranger. Laughable, but it happened to me at Blake Island. When I questioned his authority he told me they were given the authority a couple years ago, about the same time they started being allowed to carry sidearms.
 
lloyds":3304lf1b said:
So, how would you like to be boarded by the park ranger. Laughable, but it happened to me at Blake Island. When I questioned his authority he told me they were given the authority a couple years ago, about the same time they started being allowed to carry sidearms.
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So easy to give Constitutional protections away, so hard to get them back. I could say more but won't. :twisted:

Warren
 
Agreed. I keep trying to think of something meaningful to say to my six children but I just don't know what to say. The world as we knew it will probably not be available to them, and that hurts.
 
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