Open Ocean Suitability

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pcguy2u

New member
Greetings to all you C-Brats from Bodega Bay CA,

As I have posted elsewhere in these forums, we are looking for a CD 22 and have had some discussion with local boat owners here about the quest and the CD choice.

More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean.

Would really like to here about how rocky these boats really are???

I'm not what you would characterize as a "sea-faring" type and would never take the boat outside the harbor except on a very flat day. I do get seasick in high seas - a fair weather sailor, eh. :lol:

TIA, Nick
 
Nick, depends on the sea conditions and where you are! Lots of folks go 20-30 miles out but don't go if it's real rough.

As a young sailor said to me at the rail on our destroyer one day,

"Weak Stomach?? Hell no sir, I'm throwing it as far as anyone!! :cry

I've been out in the Bay here when we've had 6-8' seas, very uncomfortable and you can't go fast but I never felt unsafe. I don't get seasick either, thank goodness! :wink:

Charlie
 
For seasickness: Nothing touches the Transderm Scope skin patch. It does require a prescription, and placement the night before. But magnificent, especially the "second generation" patches. A huge improvement, will knock down some fairly rough days. I've used them for several years, no more hurling at the rail (aka chumming), or time in the bunk. Can't say enough good about them, a steal at about $7 each (or $50 in Cabo at the fishing shacks).

Good luck on the boat, I'm curious as to the responses as I'm contemplating the same boat options.
 
pcguy2u,

I'm not sure where you read this:
pcguy2u":234krfy5 said:
More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean
Click to expand...
There are many CD22 owners who go out into the open ocean. I've been out there with one of the owners who goes out to Neah Bay every summer, Roberbum. The CD22 is very seaworthy and because of the flat bottom, is very stable out there. The day I went out with Roger, there were huge swells but it was fairly smooth on top so the ride was smooth, felt just like a roller coaster going up and down those big swells. Once we got out to the open ocean, it was quite foggy but we had a very successful day of salmon fishing. In fact, Roger is organizing a gathering at Neah Bay this coming August.

So the answer is, the boat can definitely handle it. It all depends on whether the crew is up to it. :teeth And of course, as Charlie says, it depends on the sea conditions.

Peter
C-Dancer
 
Jazzmanic":3u46x6pe said:
I'm not sure where you read this:
Peter
C-Dancer
Click to expand...

I don't recall reading it anywhere, but I have heard the same thing from 3 locals in the harbor. :?:

I am clear that the boats can handle the open ocean in a variety of conditions - my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of).

Thanks again,

Nick
 
A little less prone in my opinion. Our 16 is a little quick on movement in some conditions but so were my whalers. I have been out 20 miles a couple times and I consider that a safe range in good conditions.
 
pcguy2u":2xxn5zc7 said:
Greetings to all you C-Brats from Bodega Bay CA,

As I have posted elsewhere in these forums, we are looking for a CD 22 and have had some discussion with local boat owners here about the quest and the CD choice.

More than once, I have heard about why you would not find a CD suitable for the open ocean.

Would really like to here about how rocky these boats really are???

I'm not what you would characterize as a "sea-faring" type and would never take the boat outside the harbor except on a very flat day. I do get seasick in high seas - a fair weather sailor, eh. :lol:

TIA, Nick
Click to expand...

Nick----Think you need to find someone in your area that has one and will take you out in moderate weather. Am personally not that knowledgeable on open ocean, but with the little experience I have had and what Ive garnished from this site, I think your choice gets pretty limited on a better 22' power boat for any sea conditions unless higher speed is major factor.

Jay
 
pcguy2u":22fqtfp1 said:
...my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of).
Click to expand...

A flat hull should be slightly more stable than a V, but they'll both roll around in response to the waves. That's just what you get with any boat lacking a deep sailboat-style keel.

What people may be refering to is the fact that a lightweight, flat dory-type hull will tend to pound in any significant chop. The solution: we just slow down in those conditions. We can plane at 12 knots or so, so we have a whole range of velocities from which to select.

A deep-V can go slow (hull speed, say 7 knots for boats in this size range) or go fast, but it doesn't go medium-fast very well. It just digs a deeper trench and burns more fuel until it gets up onto a plane.

But wait: A deep-V can "cut" through chop a lot better, so it can keep going fast in rougher water than a C-Dory could. Plus they generally go faster than a C-Dory anyway, because they tend to be equipped with at least twice the horsepower of a similar-sized C-Dory. They need that power to get up on plane.

So one argument against taking the C-Dory into the ocean would go like this: "If the conditions start to deteriorate, you may need to get inshore fast, and that will be easier in a deep-V with 300 hp than it will in a flat C-Dory with 115 hp." I'd suggest that this is a valid argument. It doesn't mean you can't take a C-Dory out, it means you need to be a little more vigilant about the weather forecast and your run-for-cover plan.

Hope this helps.
 
timflan":3vupbw7n said:
pcguy2u":3vupbw7n said:
...my question is more like, are the CD more prone to rolling and rocking due to the flat bottom (no V-hull to speak of).
Click to expand...

(stuff clipped)
So one argument against taking the C-Dory into the ocean would go like this: "If the conditions start to deteriorate, you may need to get inshore fast, and that will be easier in a deep-V with 300 hp than it will in a flat C-Dory with 115 hp." I'd suggest that this is a valid argument. It doesn't mean you can't take a C-Dory out, it means you need to be a little more vigilant about the weather forecast and your run-for-cover plan.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory.
 
Hunkydory":2j7bz1to said:
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory.
Click to expand...

Jay, would you help me out with the "now more stable" reference?

thx
 
pcguy,

All the C-Dories will roll more than a deep V the closer to parallel to the waves you go. However, it is rarely a good idea to run any craft parallel to the wave pattern - especially not in a stormy sea. Also, the deep V and displacement types tend to bob and roll and gee and haw with each passing wave when you are not on a plane. i.e., they "wallow".

The flatter, C-Dory hull can more quickly change position since it does not grab hold deep into the waves, which gives you lots of choices on how to handle each coming wave. You have more "agility".

If it gets really tough, you tack into or with the waves and jockey for best effect at the crest of each. In a deep "V" you are welded to the water - no quick jockeying for position there.

John
 
hunkydory":3gdpyg3q said:
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory.
Click to expand...
This is the exact situation which happened during the Anacortes Salmon Derby. I heard that the deep-V fishing boats were very envious of the very sea-worthy C-Dory's in steep, sloppy +8 foot seas. The deep-V's were having a very tough time at hull speed and were definitely rolling from side-to-side much more than the C-Dory's were. Don't misunderstand me however, I was out in that stuff too and it was scary. But the boat performed like a champ. As long as I worked the throttle correctly, the boat kept bobbing up and over those steep and sloppy waves. (On edit) I just read Dr. John's post. Very well stated.

As Timflan stated so well, if you want to get out to the fish quickly, and get back to port quickly out in the open ocean, the deep-v's are well-equipped to handle that. But then again, they also suck up fuel. Each boat has its strengths and weaknesses, it all depends on how you plan to use it.

Peter
 
pcguy2u":3gznav6l said:
Hunkydory":3gznav6l said:
On the other hand if you misjudge or for what ever other reason don't return before the weather deteriorates you may well be better off on the now more stable c-dory.
Click to expand...

Jay, would you help me out with the "now more stable" reference?

thx
Click to expand...

Yep--- Explained very well by what Peter and John said.

I have two friends Erik and Al who frequently fish out of Bodega Bay on a 24' Osprey. If they wern't one of the three who told you a c-dory is not so good for open ocean, they would if you talked to them.

Jay
 
Pcguy -

I don't know if you can do this as well on a CD-22, but when the ocean gets rough - 6ft or over, we try to surf the swells in our TomCat. This gets us up above the wave pattern and screaming along at 22 plus knots in 6 ft seas!

You have to tack across the swells to do that, certainly cannot go that fast into 6 foot waves head on with planing only. Periodically the swells will outrun you and you have to set up again on another one, but quite the comfortable way to beat the wave system.

The Deep V's can't surf like that.

John
 
Surfing 101
surfing_downhill.jpg

Are you inquiring about the "rocking" due to your seasickness? I ask because it is my experience that you would have to really go big to avoid much rocking. Remember even in the bay you have to deal with boat wakes ect. and even a 30 foot trophy will have motion.

As far as seaworthiness goes there's lots of biases out there. I've seen plenty of lists of "must haves" before someone thinks a boat is an offshore boat.

Here are two shortcomings on the 22' and under:

1) open transom
2)non-self bailing deck.

Some guys don't want a motor well for fear of taking a wave over the back. And some people think self bailing decks are a mandatory safety feature. One thing though that is often over looked regarding self bailing decks is that very few boat manufacturers actually pull this off. Meaning that they may have sculpers (sp?) for draining but with the cockpit full of water the weight actually sinks them below water level. Done correctly the deck is pretty high off the water so your sense of motion is more. That's the advantage of the c-dory. You stand below water level making a more stable situation.
 
I think he is saying that the scuppers are not large enough to drain a cockpit fast enough IF a huge wave dumped over the stern. That is true of most boats. I noticed some sportfishers have big, one way, fiberglass flaps that open up should a huge wave "poop" over the cockpit.

With the handling characteristics of C-Dories, I think it is unlikely a wave will break over the stern. The C-Dory generally rides high in the water, reducing the chances of getting pooped.

John
 
Greetings! My personal .02: As compared to my old Glasply, which had a very deep V hull, the C-Dory is much more stable and predictable in rough seas; it's not even close! The Glasply would roll sometimes and I'd be afraid it was going to roll over, even with trim tabs to help correct. It was safe, but I hated that sensation. I haven't had trim tabs on either of my 22' Dory's. When falling off the crest of a steep wave at slow speed, the Dory will slam harder than the Glasply did, but I can handle it because it's predictable. You wouldn't want to make a regular habit of this, though, because it literally "shivers the timbers" and is hard on the boat. Here's the caveat: the Glasply was 19.5'L x 7.5'W, and of course the Dory is 22'L x 7.5' W. Many of the v-hull boats you may be comparing to have 8' or 8.5' beams (or greater) and are longer/heavier. A 24' Osprey or 25' C-Hawk, to name 2 examples, will make better ocean boats but at a very high price in purchase, fuel, and tow vehicle requirements. If you're really committed to being careful with weather I think a 22' C-Dory would make a fine coastal ocean boat for day use. Good luck with whatever you choose! Mike.
 
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