No one pays full price...

M

mikea

New member
No one pays full price for a new car. What about a new boat? What is a fair mark-down below list price for a new boat in the 50-60,000 price range? What factors determine the fair purchase price of boat and options?
 
That depends on a lot of factors- in particular, in tough economic times (like now), you're more likely to get a bigger discount than in good times. However, one thing that is a key to recognize is that boats are not cars. Sounds simple but a lot of people don't seem to get this. The biggest differences (as far a pricing/discounts go) is that most boat builders build at FAR lower production levels than most auto manufacturers. They don't have the economies of scale in suppliers, shipping, dealers etc that most auto companies have.

For add-ons, you will almost always do better buying it yourself and installing it yourself. The price will be better and in many cases, the installation will be better than if done by "professionals".
 
To add to what Roger said - there are so many fewer boat dealerships for any brand than for cars. You are in Portland - I think the C-Dory dealer is Sportcraft, period. If you don't like their price, you can't just go up "Boat Row" to the next dealership if you want a C-Dory. A dealer may make some deals on boats in inventory, based on how long a boat has been in stock or whatever. But if you are talking about "the" boat you want (model, color, power, options, accessories), don't expect to wheel and deal. The dealer probably won't ask you "What would it take for you to buy this beautiful baby today?" or "Well, I have to go ask my manager if I can accept that."

"Full price" on cars is changing too. Have you ever bought a car through the Costco car buying program? Or through an online car buying service? We have done both. There is no haggling, the car purchased through these means is a fixed price item, like any other item of merchandise at a store. The sales force at a regular car dealership is trained to beat you even if you THINK you are getting a "deal" anyway.

Boat dealers mostly don't wear gold jewelry and drive Mercedes (well, the yacht brokers do, but that is a different deal). I have dealt with Les at EQ, when he tells me the Honda BF15 installed with the Trollmaster is $XXXX, I am not going to ask him if he would take $XXXX minus $500. I would be interested to hear what Les, Marc at Wefings, or any other C-Dory dealer has to say on the topic. (Yes, I know Les is no longer a C-Dory dealer).

We have bought two new C-Dorys at the Seattle Boat Show in 2003 and 2005, when the factory was the dealer here. They put together good packages. The boats were orders, not boats sold out of inventory. Also with a close-knit communty like the C-Brats, we can compare notes - so if I were a dealer, I would not want Pat knowing that David got a $3,000 better deal on an indentical boat (you didn't, did you, David?).

The bottom line, unless a boat has been sitting in a dealer's inventory for an inordinate length of time, I would not expect to see a lot of dealing, and I would not feel like a chump if I did pay full price. I might want an extra or two thrown in, but I don't expect that if they are asking $60,000, I ought to be able to get it for $50,000 as a matter of the normal way of doing business.

Or, you could go to Olympic Boat Centers - I bet they wheel and deal on Bayliners just like the car dealers do!
 
I have never been one to haggle over the price of anything. It is either worth the price or I walk a way. I think that when you are buying something like a boat, you are establishing a relationship and that relationship can be cooperative or combative. The dealer and I are going to take care of this boat for many years.

My best friend is a veterinarian. He told me that often someone brings him a pet and he sees that they probably don't have a lot of money. When they are polite, courteous and friendly. He will discount their bill. I asked him how can he stay in business that way. He replied, "I make it up on the ones who are not polite, courteous and friendly."

Patrick
 
I don't think this applies too much to C-Dories, but with a lot of boats, the left over inventory of 2008's may go out the door pretty cheap this summer when the 2009 models come out. Same for any left over 2007's right now.

Even though the 2009's may not be that much different than the 2008's, there will be serious pressure to sell off the existing inventory as the factories push the new models onto the dealers. (If they're both still in business.)

The greater the recession and sales stagnation, the more the situation favors the buyer.

Used boats will be all over the place and cheap! Opportunity knocks!

We had one major dealer in Redding fold up already, anticipating the worsening situation.

Joe. :sad
 
I think the total of my bargaining was to ask if the Boat Show Price was still good.... the dealer said sure...and it was done. If he had said no, I guess I would have bought it anyhow... But the relationship between your boat dealer and a car dealer is a world of difference.....
The Boat Dealer is your friend.... can't ever say that about the car dealer... I would enjoy having my boat dealer to dinner...great guy.

Joel
SEA3PO
 
I think there are large discounts to be had with the purchase of any boat package right now, including C-Dory. One can achieve this with dignity and still maintain a positive relationship with the dealer. Some of the keys are: 1. Be patient on delivery dates and control your emotions; dealers can sense buying fever like a shark senses blood in the water. 2. Be flexible regarding model, color, options, etc.; try your best to buy something the dealer already has on the lot and avoid special orders. 3. Plan your purchase at a time of lower demand if possible. 4. Be prepared to make a written offer that works for you. Let the dealer know that, if you can come to terms on price, you will follow through financially on your end with no games or other BS. Trust me on this: Boat dealers will welcome and entertain any serious offer right now. I'm not suggesting chiseling or overreaching (which don't normally work well anyway) but rather a cheerful and professional negotiation. I'm a businessman, and at times I give discounts to keep the crew busy if we're in-between large jobs, etc. I always appreciate having the work, and do not think any less of, or give any different service to, those for whom I'm working at a discounted rate. Supply and demand is how the market is supposed to work, after all. Note that EQ Harbor Service, the revered former C-Dory dealer referenced above, regularly discounts (sometimes to a level below their cost) boats and motors that they need to move. They also offer on their website to "meet the challenge" of lower price quotes from other dealers. I don't believe they alter their level of service on merchandise sold at lower price levels. My humble opinion... Mike.
 
I think the total of my bargaining was to ask if the Boat Show Price was still good
Click to expand...

I have bought 3 new boats in the past, and always used Boat Show prices as a non-confrontational entry point. Helps to do homework and have the flyer from the boat show. At last year's San Diego Show, the C-Dorys definitely had discounted boat show prices.

There are still some new 2007's out there, those dealers will have to be dealin' especially if you have a boat show flyer or 2 with you.
 
Thanks Bob ! I try . I could ramble on about this subject for megabytes . But.... my wife would like to have dinner with me now . Perhaps Ill elaborate later . Ill just say you better do it cause you love it . And we need to be able to stay in business so we can service what we sell .
Marc
 
Some follow-up thoughts: I recently approached my Honda dealer about the purchase of a new Fit to drive. I was informed that, in addition to MSRP and dealer prep, etc., there would be an additional "market adjustment" charge of around $1,700.00. Simply put, this vehicle is in high demand right now and the dealers are tacking on extra price because they can. I take absolutely no offense to this charge, even though I opted not to make the purchase. I've purchased from this dealer before and would absolutely do so again under the right circumstances; they are very courteous and give great customer service. Notions of "fairness to the customer", or "we need to leave some money in the customer's pocket so they can afford pay for dealer service later" are not a huge part of the dealer's business model, nor should they be. It really is supply and demand, cold hearted as it sounds. It would be a very generous buyer indeed who would buy any boat at MSRP right now with no expectation of a price reduction. Oops! I think my soap box is creaking! Mike.
 
In response to Westward:

Supply in demand does indeed work both ways. Certainly you were outlining the dealer perspective, but it does happen the other way too.

T. Bauer
 
Shopping for a boat is almost the same as shopping for a car. The exception is that we don't have access to dealer invoice prices as we do with cars. With that limitation in mind, you should always try to negotiate the best deal. The dealer is not going to say yes if they are not making money. You should not feel guilty about trying to negotiate for a better price (with a professional positive approach of course).

Good dealers know their best resource for future sales is a positive customer experience. If they give you a boat at a low price for example, then treat you poorly, they will not sell as many boats in the future. Likewise if they really take advantage of someone with a super high price, the customer will eventually find out and they will sell less boats in the future. (Both examples resulting from owners talking to other prospective owners).

I want the dealer to make money AND I want a competitive price. Boat builders (particularly like C-Dory) do not have the same economy of scale as say the Brunswick lines but they price accordingly. (At least I hope they are!) The prices you find will be based on supply and demand of course. If a dealer has a boat in stock for a year they will lower the price to move the inventory. If they are selling 3 a month they will be less flexible with the price.

It would be interesting to hear from the dealers for their perspective.
 
I agree that buying C Dories is a little different than buying most other new boats or used boats. For some time, there was a premium on buying a new boat. Not that many C Dories were produced. In the last few years there was an increase in production--thus surplus inventory and then the "deals" came along. That is boats which did not sell, the dealer was under pressure from the factory to "buy" more boats. It is in the dealer's best interest to order a boat from the factory, rather than floor boats. The flooring always costs the dealer money. The factory built boat will be profit. I believe that C Dory prices are pretty well "fixed".

I have dealt with Marc at Wefing's--and basicially had the choice of buying an in stock boat for a few dollars less, or ordering a boat which was scheduled for production--Even then, I didn't get my choice of colors of gel coat. No big deal.

Other new boats I have bought--a Coronado 35--purchased from the plans, as a preproduction sale. That was about 10% off the price once the boats were in production. A Coronado 45--when the factory was out of business: 50% off the "list price"--but I had to "deal" with employees to get all of the parts. A Bayliner 23--"boat show price"--about 15% off the "list price" All of the other boats I have owned were "used"--some only a few months.

In the Tom Cat line 2 years ago--there was a significant wait peroid to get any boat. You do pay a premium to buy a boat in that market.
 
TR: you're right. I also erred in stating that fairness doesn't figure in with dealers; of course it does! I meant to say "sympathy". In all my (boorish?) ramblings on this subject I assume fairness and her cousins honesty, integrity, reliability and cheerfulness are at play with both buyer and seller. I think that in today's boating market one could purchase an in-stock or slightly used 2007 C-Dory at a substantial discount, making themselves and the seller both very happy. Cheers! Mike.
 
I agree with Bob's assessment of the C-Dory production history in the first paragraph above, and will add my 2 cents to it.

The extra production of the factory in the past few years has already begun to show itself in the number of used boats available, particularly late models produced during those years.

I also believe that our C-Brats site has compounded the problem by helping sell boats (by enthusiasm) to folks who then found out they didn't have time for the boat or had some other mismatch.

The result has been a great increase in the number of late model used C-Dories on the market.

I'm not going to take the time to research this numerically by digging through the boats for sale archives here, but believe it's pretty evident to anyone who astutely reads all the ads and other postings here.

Hopefully, the number of available boats will not result in a significant depression of the sale value of used C-Dories because of the great demand for these boats.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Joe: The 22' Cruiser in Brooksville almost singlehandedly proves your point. Helluva deal for someone who wants that setup, and it even comes with a trailer. 18 months ago that favorable a delta between MSRP and asking price was simply not available. Mike.
 
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