No More Paper Charts

NOAA will still provide access to paper chart products based on ENC data, either through third-party vendors or through the NOAA Custom Chart system (now in prototype phase). The online NOAA Custom Chart (NCC) application lets users create their own paper charts with NOAA ENC data. The user can define the scale and size of custom-made nautical charts, then download them in a special PDF format.
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I suspect that the USA will go the way of most countries--where the charts are only available thru "Third party venders"... It probably will eventually include what is now free and provided by NOAA.

Yes, electronic charts are easy to get, cheap, download and put on a computer or print out...now. Lets just say that everything goes South...For whatever reason, the satellites go down (EMP from Solar flare, or a comet wipes out much of the satellite system, before chunks crash into Earth.. Or a hostile action.). Some countries did require paper charts be aboard as well as electronics charts... Granted that charts might be the least of worries---but some people's survival depends on charts.
 
At first I thought this was terrible, as it is always good to have a couple of general paper charts of the area you are in as backups against electronic failure and for a good overview for easy trip planning. But they will still have PDF versions of the new format that will be printable.
 
I too was a bit appalled when I learned about this. But then I got to thinking. I haven't used a paper chart in a few years, and after I sold our bigger trawler along with all of my paper charts, I haven't missed them a bit.

Jeff Siegel, the creator of Active Captain, argued a few years ago about foregoing paper charts. I have two electronic devices that I navigate with: a permanently mounted Garmin chart plotter and my iPad with two nav apps on it. The odds of losing both of these on a cruise in my home waters is close to nil. Neither use the net for charting, they are previously downloaded from NOAA and updated while I am at home with a fast net connection.

Jeff argued successfully I believe that a blue water skipper could just put his iPad or Android device inside the microwave which would act as a Faraday shield during a lightning strike so it would survive. I haven't tested that theory yet ;-).

David
 
The problem with my simple little Lowrance HD5 is that it lacks a simple little "app." It already has basically all of the "charts" of the East and West coast and inland waters on an SD card. What is missing if (or when) the GPS goes out is that it then would not show my location on those charts, which obviously makes them almost useless.

If I had the ability to "click" on an aid to navigation (or use my finger to tap on the screen) and enter the bearing I got from my hand bearing compass, The app could provide a bearing line on my screen in an instant (much faster than the old way where I had to leave the helm, grab the parallel dividers, find a compass rose on the chart, and march over to the navigation aid or whatever I sighted to draw a bearing line). If I tapped on two items and entered the bearings, and I'd have my location. Enter the time. Do the same thing 10 minutes later. My little "app" could now compute my location, speed, bearing, and maybe even show me a little vector on my screen. No GPS required.

I still have paper charts with bearing lines and scribbled notes (not on board) from past travels. They are kind of fun to look at, but I wouldn't want to go back to using them. Especially if my "screen app" idea is as simple as I'm guessing it could be. Also, on the C Dory I sometimes travel much faster than at displacement speed. The old paper chart thing seems inadequate for planing speeds.

Don't get rid of your old charts. I told another student at an art class that I took that I had old charts and she wanted to buy them. It seems that doing "art work" over old charts is a thing like painting on old whip saws. She said that the more obviously "used" the charts are, the better.

Mark
 
Jeff (Siegel) argued successfully I believe that a blue water skipper could just put his iPad or Android device inside the microwave which would act as a Faraday shield during a lightning strike so it would survive. I haven't tested that theory yet
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Jeff is a brilliant man, but we have disagreed on some things--and I believe that using a microwave as a "Faraday cage" for a lightning strike. would be one where I would disagree. The problem would be if one were not to disconnect the microwave and the oven begins to disintegrate and even catch on fire (which has occurred with lightning strikes). The second issue is that the microwave shielding is to prevent specific wave lengths (about 2.45 Ghz) from escaping and causing harm to humans, including interfering with pacemakers and other electronics. Many other frequencies will penetrate a microwave oven, even if it remains intact. This has been discussed on several physics forums, and generally it is felt that the microwave oven only attenuates EMP, and may not give as good protection as a true Faraday cage.

An EMP of the "right type" could take out the GPS satellites--either partial or all

I took a different tact--l before chart plotters were affordable. I put a hand held GPS in a metal ammo box (and double seal, with aluminum duct tape), which was not connected in any way with any of the electrical circuits on the boat.

I was in a very large Faraday Cage earlier this year, at the Wende Museum of the Cold War, which is the old National Guard Armory in Culver City. They had constructed two about 10 x 12 rooms for storage of radio gear, computer electronics, weapons and ammunition during the cold war.

I printed out charts of the Cumberland River for Last year, but rarely used them. I found that the actual chart books by COE (about $20) were far better to use than the binder full of 8 2/1 x 11 sheets). The other issue with PDF charts is having to stitch together the chart from the separate sheets (which I have done).
 
It is always a good idea to have paper charts, AND at the right scale. AAA insists upon preparing booklets of charts each page of which only covers a few miles. At 70 mph you have to flip a page every few minutes. Use the booklet to start a fire!!!!
 
thataway":29o4yu49 said:
Jeff (Siegel) argued successfully I believe that a blue water skipper could just put his iPad or Android device inside the microwave which would act as a Faraday shield during a lightning strike so it would survive. I haven't tested that theory yet
Click to expand...

Jeff is a brilliant man, but we have disagreed on some things--and I believe that using a microwave as a "Faraday cage" for a lightning strike. would be one where I would disagree. The problem would be if one were not to disconnect the microwave and the oven begins to disintegrate and even catch on fire (which has occurred with lightning strikes). The second issue is that the microwave shielding is to prevent specific wave lengths (about 2.45 Ghz) from escaping and causing harm to humans, including interfering with pacemakers and other electronics. Many other frequencies will penetrate a microwave oven, even if it remains intact. This has been discussed on several physics forums, and generally it is felt that the microwave oven only attenuates EMP, and may not give as good protection as a true Faraday cage.

An EMP of the "right type" could take out the GPS satellites--either partial or all

I took a different tact--l before chart plotters were affordable. I put a hand held GPS in a metal ammo box (and double seal, with aluminum duct tape), which was not connected in any way with any of the electrical circuits on the boat.

I was in a very large Faraday Cage earlier this year, at the Wende Museum of the Cold War, which is the old National Guard Armory in Culver City. They had constructed two about 10 x 12 rooms for storage of radio gear, computer electronics, weapons and ammunition during the cold war.

I printed out charts of the Cumberland River for Last year, but rarely used them. I found that the actual chart books by COE (about $20) were far better to use than the binder full of 8 2/1 x 11 sheets). The other issue with PDF charts is having to stitch together the chart from the separate sheets (which I have done).
Click to expand...

Bigger problem is knowing that a lightning strike or EMP pulse is coming with sufficient notice to give you time to protect your devices.

Lightning only gives a very short notice of a strike (if you're paying close attention). A hostile act that generates a EMP pulse is unlikely to be announced in advance.

I guess if you're really paranoid about it, you could keep spare device(s) in a proper Faraday cage, you know, just in case.

FWIW, the announcement says more than just getting rid of paper charts. NOAA is going to get rid of all the RNC type charts (i.e. classic format). This will mean you won't be able to print the classic charts even from PDF.

NOAA is going to all Electronic format (ENC) which are vector graphics. Personally, I don't care for the style of the ENC charts. I prefer the RNC style even though I only use them on electronic devices.
 
For the last 20 years I've done without paper charts, using chartbooks and electronic charts. May I suggest that chartbooks will continue to be published? I've found them to be accurate and a great help when planning a trip. Even navigated from Vancouver to Juneau and back using chart books. Too cheap to buy the electronic version.

As to GPS going down, remember it was designed for military use. Part of that was EMP protection. And they have spare satellites.

Boris
 
journey on":2nyx52vq said:
...As to GPS going down, remember it was designed for military use. Part of that was EMP protection. And they have spare satellites.

Boris
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Bigger issue with GPS is the government deciding to just turn it off for awhile. Yeah, that'd screw up the entire economy and plenty of people would not be able to find their way to the nearest Starbucks, but it might be better than some bad actor using the system to deliver some bad packages.

However, GPS is a generic term now. The US, Russia, and probably China have their own systems. Most GPS units can receive signals from multiple GPS systems. It is unlikely that they'd all be switched off at once.
 
Haven't the Russians put their own "GPS" system in place, and the Europeans have or about to. As likely are the Chinese. I thought I read that modern GPS receivers are using more than one system.
 
GPS "generic" but really refers to USA satellite system of 24 satellites. Used by most chart plotters thru free World.

GLONASS Russian; GPS satellite constellation is used by Garmin, RayMarine and Navico (Lowrance, Books/Gatehouse and Simrad). in addition to US GPS system. These MFD/chartplotters have 5 to 10 hz renewal rate.

BeiDou-3 Chinese; will eventually consist of 35 satellites should be complete some time in 2020, and is said to have millimeter accuracy in differential modes. Active system currently.

Galileo European; 24 operational satellites, should be in place in 2020, with 6 spares. Active system currently, slightly better accuracy than GPS

NAVIC India: should be operational sometime in 2020. Limited to area of India sub continent.

Michibiki (QZSS) Japan (limited footprint, but 10 CM accuracy--said to be used for autonomous cars.

Any of these systems can use a land based augmentation--WAAS in the USA GPS constellation. Surveyors use a variant with accuracy of a cm. Some farmers use variants to give 10 cm accuracy in applying chemicals to farms. There are multiple augmentation systems thruout the World, often used in co-operation with many countries. But as vessels we don't need these extremely accurate positions. (Our charts are often not as accurate as the GPS position).

If you want to keep up with the latest technology this web site has it.
 
The problem I have is that I am used to ,and like, the RNC visuals. ENCs look different on different plotters depending on how it is set up. So, although my plotter uses ENC data, my tablet running OpenCpn is displaying the RNC usually, although I will switch back and forth depending on what I am looking for. Also, things can show up or not show up depending on the scale of display of the ENC. I know this is all just because the RNC format is what I learned on. Oh well, people keep telling me change is good...
 
The appeal (from the tree huggers) is simplification, save $$.

For recreational boaters, it spells trouble for many, no big deal for a few;
will separate 'the men from the boys'.

Don't panic. You can always print your own.

Aye.
 
Somewhat long overdue in my opinion. In my career i always found plotting positions on a chart to be a waste of time with an ECDIS and radar with map overlay in front of me. A position fix on a paper chart is old info by the time it's plotted. I'm interested in where I am and where i'm going to be. Where I was, was as good as we could get in past years.

With regards to satellite warfare; you'll still have your radars and ability to get range and bearings from land marks. Celestial nav doesn't really require a paper chart, you can just use plotting sheets. The Navy has somewhat recently reintroduced c-nav back in for the updating of their inertial nav systems.
 
A half way decent old fashion marine compass, even if not boxed, is also an essential. It makes it a lot easier to maintain a straight course, either in the fog or (for me) even if it is clear.
 
Celestial nav doesn't really require a paper chart, you can just use plotting sheets
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. Err .....what about land masses and reefs? It isn't just what your position is, but where other objects are.

As one who has crossed oceans with only celestial navigation--I love GPS! (and chart plotters). At 6 knots, a fix can be plotted before the vessel has moved very far...

GPS can be lost by many more reasons than warfare. Spoofing of GPS is well established. The jamming is also well know. There are many reasons that all electronics can be rendered in-operable on a small boat. You can always go to hand bearings (I keep a hand bearing compass on board), and soundings (although I no longer carry my lead line). (Assuming you can see land, and the bottom is not too keep...
 
Hmmm....after years of non use we just sold our sextant, maybe a bit to soon?
A paper chart with the land mass and shore objects will always be useful in an emergency a hand bearing compass (I like the hockey puck type) or I like horizontal sextant angles off adjacent shore objects, dividers and a nautical rule, if you can see land you won't be lost without electronics. These take up almost no space on the boat and give me a feeling of always being prepared. They are having a lot of trouble in Europe with jammers used by people on shore that don't want their employers seeing them hanging out at the beach instead of driving their routes. These are having an affect on marine AIS in heavily trafficked areas. I am curious about what will happen to autonomous cars with the occasional GPS glitches we already have, imagine an LA freeway with a few seconds glitch that dosen't affect our boats.....
 
Although GNSS (GPS) is used in autonomous land vehicle navigation, it is not precise enough for city traffic or even highways--3 meters is a long way on a 2 lane highway with steep shoulders. There are other systems, including on board, differential local GPS, encrypted GPS, LIDAR, inertial and other systems, so there is a lot of redundancy. 5G will be a factor in cities, when it becomes available.

One of the reasons I purchased Sat Nav (Transit) when it first come out in1982 even though it was "out of my price range"--was that I realized that there are a lot of days, where even one good celestial may not be possible. I was fortunate that a friend of mine was a vice president of Magnavox, and he sold me his MX 4102, at his cost, and then got another one a few months later. Often low lying reefs and atolls are just not visible by eye or on Radar especially at night (and the reason for a lot of groundings before GPS and good charting).
 
In Fiji in the 70's nobody ever tried to thred the needle between all the reefs and islands, we always took the long way around with celestial navigation, now people think they can pass through 1/2 mile gaps even at night and more boats than ever are going on the reefs. (Over 300 reported in Latitude 38 a few years ago, sounds crazy). OK, more boats are out cruising now....but would there be without GPS chartplotters? It doesn't require any great seamanship or navigation skills to cruise in the modern era, hence so many more boats on the rocks.
I do love my tablet and chartplotter, and keeping a safe distance off in sketchy charted areas is still a residual habit. We are often "anchored on land" in Mexico and rocks can be up to 1/2 mile off the chartplotter position, more on our old original c-map.
Am I now an old curmudgeon, maybe so....
 
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