New versus used?

O

Ordutch1975

New member
Hi everyone, this has been covered before but I can't find it. What are your opinions on new versus used my wife and I are about to sign for a new 23 venture. The cost with options we want is in the upper 80s not including electronics. I know this is a personal financial decision but I want your thoughts. I have previously had a horrible experience with a used boat and am gun shy with that. I still everytime I take out my used boat even tho she runs great now stress about the old engine when out in rougher waters. On the pro side I like the idea of no stress about reliability at least for the near term and I maintain everything I have impeccably so I figure at least 10 years of peace of mind. On the down side is cost. For a little over half the price I can buy a 10-12 year old boat. I am not a mechanic but know how to maintain my boat. Our intended purpose is regular cruising (multi day) and some light fishing. (I put about 80 hours a year on my boat)

Thoughts? Am I throwing my money away with a new boat?
 
I stressed over everything on a new boat, now 12 years old.

I think the newer technologies in the engines and electronics are substantial, and has been mentioned previously, folks believe the boats have excellelent quality when compared to those made by previous owners. That's not to say the older boats were bad. My perspective is based on a CD 22, not a Venture 23.

If it were me, I'd go for the new boat. Part of why I say that is for the lighter engines with more HP, the advances in electronics, and the joy of fitting out a new boat.

Assuming you have a thorough survey on a used boat, I don't think you can go wrong either way.
 
I had an utterly horrible experience with a surveyor, managed with the assistance of seller and my own experience to recover. Don't hire a surveyor without checking around and getting recommendations.

The most serious issues with a c-dory regards water invasion into the balsam core and the condition of the motor. A surveyor will refer you to a mechanic for the second of these. There are likely people who can address the former issue if you ask around.

As for the minimal electrical/electronics on a c-dory they either work, or they don't, and you can compare the cost of replacing them with an estimated residual value of existing ones.

Ideally either the factory or some of their great dealers could do the equivalent of 'certified used cars'. It would cost a few/several thousand but many of us would find it worth it.

A used boat likely will have some deferred maintenance, or will acquire some in the near future. Boats cost money.
 
Ill echo what he said. Fuel injected outboards with variable valve timing, touch screen electronics with incredible picture of the bottom. These are not insignificant advances.

If you add up the cost of new outboards, and electronics, and that new boat feeling, the difference in price doesn't seem that much now does it?!!

Honestly if money isn't an issue and you can afford it, go new.
 
Sounds like new is a good option for how you would like to relate to and use the boat. Unless you could find a used boat that could use re-powering and new electronics anyway. You may come out ahead moneywise but the used option will take more effort from you to get it setup the way you want it.

Greg
 
I just had a 25 Cruiser built and had it built EXACTLY the way I wanted it. NWI really is doing a fantastic job building the new C-Dories. Quality is evident. But don't fool yourself however as there is always things to fix/repair/add to a new boat as well as a used one. :-)

I voted new as I could not be happier with my new boat!

However, when I decided to buy new my decision was made knowing I would not trade/sell the boat for a long long time (God willing). If you want to sell in a year or two it's better to buy used.
 
I have no problem buying late model used anything. This significantly lowers the price and you get fairly recent technology. Boat motors do not change every year like cars do. Every few years an update is done (like new BF100), But all the BF90Ds are pretty much identical over several years. For instance, I think you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between an 08 and a 11 model BF90D.

New electronics are a little different. But no matter what you buy today, in 6 months they'll have something better. You just need to get something that works and then not obsess over what's coming.

My chartplotter was bought by the PO. It is at least 7 years old. Is it as good as the latest thing out there? Definitely not. Does it do what I want and need it to do? Most certainly. Is it worth replacing with the latest thing? No, there is no compelling reason to do that.

Any large low volume item like a boat is going to have a certain amount of hand work done to make it. While C-Dory's are relatively simple, a used one will likely have all the manufacturing kinks worked out of it by someone else. The motor will be broken in, and all the infant mortality should be over. In the case of a C-Dory, likely several owner improvements will also be installed.

IMO, getting a well kept example that is a few years old is a better bet than buying brand new.

In a boat pretty much anything can fail, new or used. If you are stressed out by cruising in a used boat, I don't think that cruising in a new one will really make that much difference. You need to be familiar with whatever boat you have and its good and bad points/areas. Same is true if the boat is new or not.

However, everyone has to make their own decisions and find their own comfort zone.

In my case I certainly have a lower level of anxiety about all the things that could possibly go wrong with the boat when we are cruising than my wife.
 
If you can write the check without having to shortchange any of life's other commitments and the only reason to buy used is to get a good deal---then buy new and get just exactly what you want.
You are not being dumb by buying new, at all, especially if you will keep the boat for several years. Some of us are limited in our means and resources and some simply HAVE to get a "deal" to feel right about a purchase. If that's you, then you should know yourself by now and so keep searching for that elusive great deal.
But if you just want to enjoy a great boat and you really can afford it, then quit worrying about it and write that check-----and, congrats!
 
I have owned a number of boats--and bought 4 new (including a Tom Cat). The other 20+ have been used. (OK we built a few boats along the way also). Every one of my new boats had some serious problems. I still see some issues in new C Dorys. The case of my Tom Cat, It was about 200 miles to the dealer, and I knew I could fix the issues better than the dealer could. The only time I called on the dealer for quick help--was when the hydraulic steering failed --about the second time out. The dealer did one of their mechanics to power bleed and help install the new helm unit which Teleflex had overnight expressed. (I had to arrange that). There I bought new, because there were no used, I wanted specific upgrades--and did not get them. But that was over 10 years ago, Different owners now, and I believe better.

I have also purchased one C Dory with known abuse and serious issues--but it was purchased at half the value of the boat. I did it as a project, and it was a good boat, and wise financial decision.

The point about newer motors is valid. But most motors after 2007 are injected, so injection is not an issue. Same with larger alternators. Look at the hours on the engines. Although some in commercial use, get up to 10,000 hours, on outboard motors, but in the average use of a C Dory, one would strongly consider replacing motors over 2500 hours..

Electronics--Ssobol is spot on. The older ones are still good if they work--but the newest latest greatest, do have some really great features. My son's boat has a JRC Radar 20 years old--and it works very well. On the other hand, we bought him a new depth sounder/chart plotter, with better charts, and down scan/side scan for the fish finder.

Also consider what you want in a boat. I like the plain interior, where I can turn the hose on it, scrub it out if necessary. I have seen too many headliners which sag and get mold behind. But since I live in Fl. that is a greater problem that in the PNW.

My current C Dory was in excellent condition, engine low hours, minimal electronics, and for me as good, or better than a new boat. Only down, was that the engine was not injected, and had a smaller alternator, than the newer boats. Not worth the $10 to 12K to re-power.

As most have said--only you can determine if you can "Afford" a new boat. How you manage your finances is very personal. As one who has been retired over 25 years, I observe that many folks do not save enough for a really comfortable retirement, and don't understand the uncertainty and costs of aging.
 
No doubt about it, buying a boat impacts your finances. Better 'deal' with a
used boat? Maybe. Assurance of fewer problems with a new boat? You are
dreaming.

Purchasing any boat, unless you depend on it for your primary occupation, falls
into the category of "disposable income." Just like gambling or chasing women.
There could be a reward in it but you just don't know for sure. The only truth is
it is going to cost you. The best you can hope for is pleasurable cruises shared
(boat), a big win (gambling) or some memorable sporting (women).

Yup. It's the unusual boat that isn't just a hole in the water to throw money into.

That said, disposable income is like "recreational money". Spending it doesn't
have to make sense if you enjoy it. Then it's a win/win. You can afford it and it
gives you pleasure.

Realize once you get into it, there is no perfect boat for all occasions. To do it
right, you'll need several boats all at once or over time. Just read the nautical
craft lineage of many of the contributors to this forum. I rest my case.

Aye.
 
If a good used boat had been available at the time I was looking last year, there would have been no reservations buying it at almost any asking price....My budget (set before even beginning the search) was all the way up to the price of a new 22. But at the time, the boats on the market would appear great in the photos, and be advertised as "excellent condition", only to disappoint when viewed in-person. There was this fear that my search for the perfect gem might take a long time.

Then, after going on some of the new boats, both at the dealer and the boat show, there was no question, "new boat" was really what I wanted and so the order was placed. As luck would have it, a few weeks after placing that order, a local C-Brat boat came on the market that probably would have met those criteria, but I was still happy to be getting a new boat even at the higher cost.

You definitely can't go wrong with a new boat if it's within your budget. And in your case, probably even harder to find a "like new" used 23, since they are somewhat hard to come by used. If you do go new, enjoy it while it lasts, because even at only 1 year, my "new" boat already has some scrapes, nicks, and dings, from regular use. But at least each of them has a nice little back story!

-Mike
 
Mike's comments provoked me to make another comment. Some of the boats which cosmetically look "worked", actually can be made to look like new again. It is the "bones"--Balsa core, and engine, which are probably the most important.

I happent to prefer the wood interior--some will prefer the molded fiberglass. There are advantages of both. But this may factor in your decision.

Some like the "Barber" sliding forward seat. We don't--because my Admiral Marie prefers to sit aft, and there is more storage under the table floor and under the forward dinette seat, which we do like. So little details like this may make a difference.
 
"Thoughts? Am I throwing my money away with a new boat?"

Yes you are. You're also throwing it away with a used boat. If you have the time to be diligent you can be way less financially reckless buying used, but don't start using words like "investment". The investment is in your boating enjoyment, and it will cost you dearly. (Anyone else out there been eating $500 salmon that you caught yourself? :lol: ) $80k is surprisingly hard to save but surprisingly easy to spend these days
 
Ordutch1975":1hche5fz said:
Hi everyone, this has been covered before but I can't find it. What are your opinions on new versus used my wife and I are about to sign for a new 23 venture. The cost with options we want is in the upper 80s not including electronics. I know this is a personal financial decision but I want your thoughts. I have previously had a horrible experience with a used boat and am gun shy with that. I still everytime I take out my used boat even tho she runs great now stress about the old engine when out in rougher waters. On the pro side I like the idea of no stress about reliability at least for the near term and I maintain everything I have impeccably so I figure at least 10 years of peace of mind. On the down side is cost. For a little over half the price I can buy a 10-12 year old boat. I am not a mechanic but know how to maintain my boat. Our intended purpose is regular cruising (multi day) and some light fishing. (I put about 80 hours a year on my boat)

Thoughts? Am I throwing my money away with a new boat?
Click to expand...

I am in same situation as you but kinda. My first question to you is will this be your last boat purchase? I am getting ready to buy a new 2300 Farallon Sportsman after I sell my C-Dory 19. There are not many used Farallons on the market let alone a 2300 with outboard motors. If the RIGHT used 2300 popped up and I was 90% satisfied with it and could save a good amount vs. buying new I would do it. I am 51 and this will be my last boat purchase as I know this is my dream boat. I will keep this boat until I can't fish anymore. You possibly have more used options as far as C-Dory goes.

If you love boating like I do (Fishing more important to me than cruising) and can afford new, whether cash or financing, and will not have any impact on your family, retirement or personal life, and cannot find a used one you will be happy with, then buy new. The reply about are you throwing money away and poster said yes whether new or used to me is silly and that could be said about RV's, Motorcycles, etc. Boating is not about making money but making memories. life is too damn short and the older you get the faster it goes. This is just my opinion and as you already know there are lots out there. All I can say that I think most have the same thought is LIFE IS SHORT. Live it while you can. Retire comfortably and also have your dream boat or whatever toy you decide to have so you can enjoy when you do retire.

GOOD LUCK!
 
As others have already said, if money is not an issue, then why not buy new if that's what you want to do? I made a promise to myself long ago to never go into any kind debt because of a recreational boat, no boat loan, no credit cards...cash on the barrelhead only...so, for me, that means I will not be buying any $80,000 c-dorys right now! YMMV.
 
I can afford it or I would simply not consider it. I also agree that boating has never and will never be an "investment". And yes things can go wrong with a new boat but you have a warranty which limits to some degree your exposure to unexpected expenses for a period of time - barring slamming into a log or another boat. I will ponder it tonight (probably not sleep much) and see where I am at in the morning. I can afford it but 87k is not chump change for me anyways - it's a sizeable expense.

I think I realize with myself one way or another than new makes me feel (right or wrong) safer or less exposed to serious issues. Nothing would frustrate me more than buying a boat (like I did last time) having to spend the same as I would for a new one adding a new 150 and repairing he hull. I don't like uncertainty it causes me stress. I appreciate all your feedback. Lots to ponder...

Most of all I am thankful for my wife, she just wants me to enjoy life and will support me in whatever decision I make because she knows I would never put us in a situation where such a purchase would impair our comfortable way of life :-).

H
 
Dear H:

Please take what I said with a grain of salt: I am a boater after all. 2 boats ago I got a "great deal" on a used c-dory, but then lost my ass (relatively speaking) re-powering and repairing some hidden hull damage. Last boat I bought brand new with a few bells and whistles and against my better judgement financed it. Yes, Mr. financially conservative delayed gratification went and financed it! Like you, my sweetheart encouraged me because she knows I work my ass off, that buying it wouldn't change our financial picture, and that life's very short. (I work in oncology at a major research hospital and trust me when I say: life is short). I bought in 2014 and it took me till this month to finally pay it off. It seems to run much better now that it's paid off :) Neither purchase made financial sense, but I love boating and we have a Summer home on a remote island that requires a boat (or private plane) to access. Go figure. I didn't need to rub your nose in the well-known fact that boats are a very costly luxury.

Sounds like you are a "new" buyer. Sounds like you have the means. Sounds like you've narrowed down your choice of boats. You have your wife's blessings.

So go buy yourself a new boat.

Best, Mike.
 
Indeed life is short. In part why I'm even considering this expense now. I've always been a cautious one with my expenses. My mom passed way too young (cancer), my brother 54 (lives a healthy life) is going in for quad bypass and valve job tonight (in holland) 8 hour surgery. Saturday I was at dinner with a couple whose mom was lifeflighted (call was received during dinner) she had a head on collision where both occupants of the other vehicle died. She has many surgeries ahead of her and will likely be walking again in a year or so if all goes well. So yes life is short and there are no guarantees. Doesn't mean you should be wreckless with money tho. I have my wife and kids to think of. But we have enough to be able to absorb the cost. I am indeed going to sleep very little tonight. Maybe I should consider the 22 but it is quite a bit smaller but saves about 15k. I dunno will talk with the dealer tomorrow. Good night and thanks for the insights
 
We bought Journey On new through the boat show with a discount there. So we didn't pay too much more than a used boat and boats don't depreciate like bikes. Inflation will let you sell it for about what you paid for it.

There weren't too many used 25's on the market, if any, so we bought what was available: new. Never regretted it, in fact they had made several good changes for 2005. It was a hoot to deal with Jeff and company; the guy wanted to sell boats. And he did. If you can find a guy like that, good luck.

I personally like the fiberglass interior. That came in after we bought ours. They don't rust/chip or peel.

Anyway we're happy we bought new.

Boris
 
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