New to me Boat questions, round one

D

Donald Tyson

Member
1) What type of boat hook(s) do you recommend: One piece solid, Extendable but with fixed hook, extendable with interchangeable end tools?

2) Will I always find that a good cooler is necessary? What brand do you find ok?

3) Should I register the 8 1/2' Dinghy or keep it as a tender?

4) What type of line, and thickness, do you prefer to use for an anchor safety line. What type of Float and Is it okay to use floating line for visual aid.

More to come.
 
So, lots of questions, and the basic answer is it depends.... depends on what your needs are.
1. Boathook - I like the extendable ones with removable hook. It lets me have only one long stick onto which I can put the hook, the brush I use to clean the boat, and an attachment for an ACME thread that lets me put all kinds of rollers etc. on it. I don't have storage for all the different lengths I of rods I would need. The one problem with the extendable rods is that they never lock adequately and twist open just at the wrong moment when you are trying to dock. So, I drilled a hole through the shaft and put in a clevis pin at the length I use the most.

2. Since we cruise for several up to 10 days, we use an actual fridge for our foods. I run it off the 12 V house battery. A fridge is actually more efficient use of space considering how much space is taken up with ice relative to the compressor. I have tried the less expensive fridges over the last 20 years but they never lasted more than 2-3 years. Since then I switched to Dometic and they have been great. Also they don't use more than about 0.5 kWhrs per day.

Don't have a dinghy so can't help you with that question.

4. On my 22 ft cruiser my anchor and chain are not that heavy so I use a 3.8 bungee cord with hooks through the chain to the cleat. This also reduces the bouncing around during trailering.
 
extendable boat hooks, with one or two of the little dimples that pop into holes--far better than a "twist lock". For any C Dory beyond a 16, two boat hooks both with interchangeable end fittings. I like the ones which have several knobs and a curl back. There are many accessories for putting lines over pilings etc. I have used the 14' non-extendable wooden poles with fixed knobbed and sharp spike bronze end fittings on my larger vessels where I could secure them on top of a pilot hose--and will not fail under load

Chests: Yeti or similar are good. RTIC some of the Coleman and Igloo are very good, some not so good., We have an older "Outer Banks" which is as good as when we bought it from Boat US store 20 or so years ago.

We also have used the Danfoss/SEPCO compressor chests for overhead 50 years. I had very bad luck with what are now Dometic. I use Norcold, Engle, ARB, Whynter (two cambers different temperatuers) ICECO, There is one which I believe Jody uses which is also very good. Lots of new Chinese units on the market.

Below Is a very comprehensive review on the C Brat site

In 2020 Jody Kidd linked to this article, and recommended the top one in this link The National Luna 52 qt Legacy. It has always had high ratings, however it was hard to get in the US.

Another review

Any dinghy should be registered--even if you only have a trolling motor on it. I also put the "tender to" Yacht XXXX on the aft side. There is a disadvantage to that, if someone wants to rob your boat...they know when you are ashore. Obviously kayaks, paddle boards, et do not have to be registered.

Sorry to strongly disagree with Tom Hurby, unless what he describes is different that what I know of. A 3/8" bungee with hooks, could become a dangerous item, under heavy load and the hooks give way or straighten. One should never use a "wire" open hook in anchoring gear, same with carabiners, unless rated at the SWL equal to or greater than the Rope (Wichard has some, which are stamped with SWL). The same holds true for anchoring D or Bow shackles. I use lighter lines, such 5 /16 nylon US made line. If Tom disagrees, then he has never been in anchoring conditions, even on the C Dory, where there were very high winds. Your boat and even your life may depend on your anchoring gear--never compromise. Never use the immitation Danforths--use Danforth HT, or. West Marine performance, or Fortress (Guardian in some cases). Use US premium nylon line and quality thimbles (Usually I use SS) I use my own splices, but I have been splicing rope and cable for over 75 years.

The photo below is 5/16 with 1/2" Brait. If you use "chain hooks" the SS plate with holes for proper D shackles and the snubber lines having an eye splice with proper thimble. These lines are using a double rolling hitch
Spring_lines_2.sized.jpg

I normally do not use a float on an anchor line. In areas where the anchor might get hung up, I might use a float, with a line attached to the crown of the anchor. I did this once at Santa Cruz Island (Southern California);an abalone boat went right over it, and wound the line up into his prop. I also have had neophyte boaters try and pick it up when anchoring at Catalina, two harbors. The bow anchor would be in 100 feet of water, and the stern anchor in much shoaler water. I always carried several spare anchors and rode to use to moor boaters like that--give them a few instructions and then anchor for them with my gear and dinghy. Much better than to wake up at night with another boat bumping into you! Many times these new folks go to dinner and return to find their boat "gone". They just drag anchor.

The only time I have used floating line to moor my boat was when stern too Rocks and Trees--Even in Europe I use Nylon, because floating was not the convention as it is in the USA and Canada. When I tie to rocks or trees, I use chain, and a proper shackle for the rode, and the chain around the rope or tree. I carry a several lengths of 1 1/2" or 2" old fire hose to protect the tree's bark. Fire stations regularly replace the hoses, especially if damaged. I have fireman friends who get this for me. I do carry red plastic floats attached the line, if it is not clear where it enters the water and is shoal, so a sailboat does not trip it with their keel.

Once when anchored in Turkey a flotilla of 26' charter sailboats anchored to windward of me, and went off to diner, without properly set their anchors (very common) The next morning when we got ready to leave, all of these boats, except the leader; had drug their anchors, and which were tangled in my 200 feet of anchor chain. As we came to each boat, we would rap on the deck with the bronze knob tip of the boat hook as we were to pull their anchor off our chain, and let their boat drift with the anchor down. They came on deck, obviously hung over..Not having a clue why their anchors were on my chain.
 
I am new to this sort of boating too, but I have been overlanding for many years and have used an Engel 12V fridge for at least 15 years. Engel fridges use a better compressor than most fridges, a Fujisawa "swing" compressor. It only has one moving part and is highly efficient.

The 40-quart MR040 model that I have was developed specifically for the marine market, with a plastic casing that won't rust. Most of their other models have metal cases

They aren't cheap, but are pretty much bulletproof and will not drain your battery overnight. In my overlanding expeditions I have hundreds of times run the fridge and a CPAP overnight off of my truck battery without issue.

As to the more general question of a fridge versus a cooler, nearly 100% of the overlanders I have talked to say the fridge is the best camping equipment they ever bought.
 
Big Swede, I agree with you that a ref/freezer chest off 12 volts are the best for offroad or on road. I have a rig with a Webasto Black Forrest Fridge/Freezer (I got it as a close out from Defender for $200, a $200 LiFePO4 100 amp hr battery, a Victron Orion DC to DC charger, and a 600 watt inverter to run my induction burner if necessary, as well as run the Webastco chest unit. Each of my vehicles has an Anderson 30amp plug off the starting battery to allow the #10 cables from the battery to be placed in the back of our SUVs. This can be for frozen food an a grocery run, will keep the freezer running for 48 hours on cross country trip, even if the vehicle is not started. The battery and other items including the 100 amp output breaker, and other gear fits in a group 31 battery box. Just plug and play.

It would work the same way in the only boat we have now--the Caracal Cat if we were to use it as a camper for longer trips on the water.

The swing motors are great, but the circuit boards can go out, and that has been a limiting factor for us with Engles.
 
The boat I'm looking at has a Norcold in good shape.
I was also thinking to get a 45-70 qt Igloo or Yeti to keep out on deck to use for food (on longer trips) and to act as a seat. Maybe I should wait and be on the boat a bit before deciding what will work best.
 
We have two ENGEL powered 24 qt. freezer/ fridges on our boat. We power them for 16 hours (one in freezer mode, one in fridge mode) with the EF ECOFLOW Portable Power Station RIVER 2 Pro, 768Wh LiFePO4 Battery, 70 Min Fast Charging, off generator at 850 watts, or slow charge at 150 watts from one engine. Not cheap but works perfectly for our set up and we can use it for the house in case of a power outage. No special wiring needed for the boat or extra components going from lead batteries to Lipo4. Just plug and play!
 
-Waypoint-":2g1m7aqz said:
We have two ENGEL powered 24 qt. freezer/ fridges on our boat. We power them for 16 hours (one in freezer mode, one in fridge mode) with the EF ECOFLOW Portable Power Station RIVER 2 Pro, 768Wh LiFePO4 Battery, 70 Min Fast Charging, off generator at 850 watts, or slow charge at 150 watts from one engine. Not cheap but works perfectly for our set up and we can use it for the house in case of a power outage. No special wiring needed for the boat or extra components going from lead batteries to Lipo4. Just plug and play!
Click to expand...
I think this is a good approach for boats that aren't already equipped with shore power systems.

Until recently I sat on the sidelines of the battery bank market, not seeing the utility for my purposes. Then Bluetti came out with the Elite 200 V2, which offers over 2000 watt hours in an amazingly small form factor, due to their use of square automotive battery cells rather than cylindrical cells. This is enough power to run appliances like cooktops, microwave ovens, electrical space heaters, fridges, etc. for camping or boating, for an extended period. For example, this may negate the need for the complexity and smell of a diesel heater.

Of course, charging such a large battery bank can be a challenge unless you have access to shore power, but Bluetti also introduced the Charger One, which is a charger designed to run off of the vehicle alternator. By boosting the 12V power to 56 volts, much faster charging can be achieved at up to 560 watts, versus around 100 watts for a typical 12 volt outlet. This make it feasible to charge up a large capacity battery bank in a few hours while on the move. Ecoflow has introduced a similar charger. One of the ramifications of this is reduced need for solar panels, perhaps freeing up the roof for things like dinghy storage.

Personally I think this approach greatly simplifies our ability to deal with anchoring out (camping), as mentioned by Waypoint.

These products are advancing rapidly. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
 
I simply don't understand Juice. But now I must pay more attention for though I hate it I like the advantages of it. So with that I ask what is a power station such as this Portable Power Station RIVER 2 Pro that you speak of. What does it do? It doesn't seem to generate anything but rather only receives various charges.
When I finally get to Hontoon I'm hoping someone can sit patiently and explain this more clearly.

If I get the boat I'm hoping for, and it looks very likely that I will, the surveyor told me that the batteries are 5 yrs old and should be replaced before there is an issue. So with that before me perhaps I will find time to utilize and take advantage of some one the new technology out there.
 
Donald Tyson":130j8krh said:
I simply don't understand Juice. But now I must pay more attention for though I hate it I like the advantages of it. So with that I ask what is a power station such as this Portable Power Station RIVER 2 Pro that you speak of. What does it do? It doesn't seem to generate anything but rather only receives various charges.
Click to expand...
A "power station" or "battery bank" or, most confusingly, "solar generator" (a ridiculous term since they don't generate anything and have nothing to do with solar power other than as a storage device), is simply a 12V battery combined with an inverter (for putting out 120V AC) and a charger to charge the battery from 120V or 12V sources, all in one box for portability.

It's nothing magical, you can do all of this on your boat using separate components, but then of course it would not be portable. I use my battery bank in my off road truck to power camping activities, then move it to the boat for anchoring out, and keep it in the house for power outages. Portable.
 
Bob (Thataway), I think we have a different definition of anchor safety line. For me, and the definition I found on the web, is that an anchor safety line is one that keeps the anchor from accidentally releasing when in the up position. Namely it keeps the anchor tight in its mount while under way.
 
I use a velcro strap around the anchor shaft and the anchor rest on the bow. If the anchor can't tilt out of the rest, it won't go anywhere.

anchor_strap.jpg
 
P.S. I have a 17lb Mantus anchor for my C-Dory and the 3/8 inch bungee cord has a breaking strength of 400 lbs and the SS carabiners a load limit of 400 lbs.
 
Tom thank you for clarifying. For making sure the anchor does not accidently deploy, I use a Wichard shackle and take a line from the attatchment of the anchor bow shackle to the forward cleat to act as a preventer. This is a 22 lb Delta, but I agree the Mantus is a better anchor.

DSC00456.jpg
 
I feel that I described it wrong. The line you attach to your anchor in case you need a fast release of a stuck anchor. Is it a trip line? one end attaches to the forward end of the anchor while the other end attaches to a float. Do you use a floating line so it is easy to snag and pull. 1/4", 5/16 or 3/8"?
 
The line attached to the crown of an anchor is a trip line or Buoyed retrieval line. Some folks attach the primary chain to the crown, and then use electrical ties to keep the chain along side the shank of the anchor and to the hole/shackle at the top of the shank. I do not favor this because of the danger of tripping the anchor with tidal swings--it maybe OK when anchoring on a rock pile or wreck during the day, but not for overnight.

In many of thousands of nights at anchor over the last 70+ years I have never lost an anchor. But I carry SCUBA gear and have used that on occasion. See my earlier answer of the potential issues with floating line--boas will go over it and tangle their prop. I use dacron line If I have to use a retrieval or trip line. I don't need shock absorption.

I have picked up all sorts of item from a complete Bimini top, a diaper, a mason jar on the Tip of a CQR (obviously not set--or set into the jar. Trees, Cables up to 1" thick. Never a power or phone cable myself, but a did free (SCUBA) an electrical cable for another boater in Spa Creek, Annapolis Md. I hooked into a battleship in Rhodes (Greece) harbor. I got it up a few feet, with two windlasses pulling, and then put on diving gear, and put a line around the chain, then Marie dropped the anchor, and I guided it up clear of the chain. Then we pulled the double ended line and dropped the chain back to the bottom, So the answer is 99% of the time I don't use a trip line.

There are articles on the advantages and disadvantages of a trip line.
 
Yes Tom and Bob , I did mean Trip Line. I'm learning. And I also went and read about the disadvantages, sometimes, of using a trip line.
I don't dive. I do fish in some waters that are submerged stump fields left over from when the lakes were created for flood control and also the 1890's Ice industry. The deepest part of these lakes are 6-9 feet and completely strewn with logs and stumps from that early era. The water is coal black from tannin. I would not dream of diving into near freezing, zero vis water, for a twenty dollar river anchor. I lost two in 5 yrs of fishing there. In open unknown anchorages not over sand I believe I would be interested in learning a trip line...especially if it was a more expensive mantis, ronca or bruce.
Now that I see the usefulness of a trip line and yet how infrequently I might use it I believe the best trip line rope would be 1/4" - 3/8" Manila. It breaks a 500 and 1200 lbs. When I was a climber in the Redwoods of Eureka CA we used 3/8 for saw safeties. We would simply take a 4' piece and eye splice both ends. The idea was when climbing the saw (attached to your waist harness would dangle low your body and feet as you spur up the tree. And in an emergency, should you ever have to let go of it. The safety would catch it. but it would brake free altogether if it was really a dire situation. Indeed I was topping a second growth one day at 120' It was a 50" diameter cut and I had a 54" Stihl 080 Saw tied to me. As the top of the tree went off it hooked the saw chain and yanked the saw out of my hands. The safety rope broke as it should and the saw fell end over end for over 120' . It hit the sidewalk and shattered into a million pieces. So I advocate here that a line that size of Manila would work well. Any strangers prop would chop it cleanly and yet it would be stronger than needed when tripping and retrieving an anchor. Dry it well and change it out annually and it should work well.
Thoughts?
Maybe I'll have to create a project and test it against controls. Anyone volunteer to drive over it, lol?
 
I bought a Lifetime 55 cooler and am quite happy with it. They are very rugged albeit a bit heavy. Very well insulated and sealed. Made in the USA. Warranty claims they are grizzly proof for at least an hour. Not cheap - $250.00 CAD.

Rob
 
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