New Member - Looking for First Cruiser

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mbwatson11

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Just retiring and we have started our search for our first boat supporting short term live aboard cruising, and are looking for clarification on a few things. For context, our intended use is multi day up to maybe a couple of weeks cruises. We mainly boat on rivers and near shore keys in Florida that are reachable by Tritons (23’ - Yamaha 150). Initial use will be more in the Keys, and out of state rivers.

While we are entertaining the idea of the Great Loop, it would only be in sections.

We have these requirements - trailerable , new boat with enclosed head and shower. The other requirements including build-out options are all supported by each boat. The short list is:
1. C-dory 255 Tomcat
2. C-dory 26 Venture
3. C-dory 25 Cruiser
4. Rosborough 246 Digby
5. Ranger Tug R25

We have looked several other boats, and the Tomcat, 25 Cruiser and R25 on this list. We are lining up sea trials if possible for the list. We don’t have extensive years of power boating, and the experience we do have is on our tritoon. We think the Tomcat has an edge for comfort due to the least rolling of this list.

Surprisingly, the pricing of the Tomcat, 246 Digby and R25 place equivalently equipped boats with the Tomcat out pricing the 246 Digby and R25 (by a hair). Now I believe that actually making a bonafide offer will get better/more accurate pricing, but we are not ready to pull the trigger, and I don’t negotiate until I am ready to actually purchase.

If you made it this far, thank you, and here is the main question. Is the stability of the Tomcat generally worth the premium? Secondly, are we missing something on the pricing? We are not tied to the “plushness” of the R45. As mentioned, the other amenities, options and electronics will be identical (or very nearly so). We have not gotten firm pricing on the 26 Venture or 25 Cruiser, but initial investigation is pointing to price points very near the 246 Digby. The 246 Digby’s biggest pain point is time to build if we go that route.

Finally, other thoughts? (For various reasons we will most likely stay with a new boat, no need to belabor cost savings by purchasing a used boat :) )

Thanks in advance!
 
Personally, I believe the list you made are all great boats for doing the Loop in sections. Most of the Loop is done on inland waters with fairly calm waters. Of course there are bays, the Great Lakes, the Golf crossing that can get your attention. No matter what boat you choose there will be days that it’s going to be no go! We are sectionally looping on our C-Dory 25 at this time but have completed our first Loop on a Californian 45 in 2022. Much of the trip is done at hull speed. The C-Dory 25 is pretty flat and while capable you must slow down before a deep V boat and a Tom Cat. We’ve had our 25 for over 10 years now and love it. The Tom Cat does have the advantage of being equipped with twins.

If you get down to the C-Dory gathering at Hontoon you’ll be able to see multiple sizes of C-Dory’s.
Life Member of AGLCA.
 
IMO, the R25 and R246 are nice boats but they do have some drawbacks that I don't care for. The R25 is quite fancy, but this makes mods and working on it kind of difficult because everything is covered up by fancy finishing. I also don't care for the head compartment being pretty small and right at the head of the berth. You might want to see if you can actually fit in it well enough to use it properly.
Most R246 models have the head in the same place as the R25. The description of the Digby and some of the pictures show the head in the back of the cabin, but some of the layout diagrams show it in the berth. If you have the head at the back of the main cabin, you give up the dinette for side by side bench seating at the table.
All the listed boats are relatively heavy for trailering. You may need to figure a tow vehicle into your purchase if you don't already have a suitable one.
 
Thanks for the info! Tow vehicle is F350 Diesel Dually. The head in the berth is something we would like to avoid, the Digby offers the head in the cabin like the C-Dory boats. We have walked through the R25 and R27. The R27 is above the current budget.
 
You might look at the R25 or R27 Classic models. These have the head in the main cabin and have a dinette. They are inboard diesel powered and you'd have to get a used one. But they can be had for less than $100K (R25).
 
There are three distinctly different hull forums here. The Tom Cat, which will be the highest speed, but not so good at semi displacement speeds of 8 to 18 mph. The bunk in the Tom Cat is a queen plus, the most "length" or you can sleep several athwartships and one fore and aft between the navigator's seat and the forward part of the bunk by putting in cushions or gear to bring your head level in the navigator's foot well.

The 255 will handle well in chop up to about 3'--and if more than that you probably won't be moving in any of the these boats. I have about 12 miles of fetch in Perdido Bay, and would run from the ICW to our bayou in 35 to 40 mph range during "northers" in the winter--In the Tom Cat, I would get the boat rapidly on a plane, and keep a good air cushion under the tunnel, to make the ride comfortable. You cannot do that in any of the monohulls. None are "Deep V's" which are suitable for fast against modert chop such as a Condendor or Regulator deep V.

I am lumping the C Dory 25 and Venture 26--although they have slightly different deadrise, and the Venture will do better in chop, but the 25 will do better down wind/heavy seas. The 25 and Venture will be more controlable in beam seas and down wind than the Rosborough or the Ranger 25 outboard. The Rosborough Digby 25 cabin layout will not have as much galley space as the standard layout, and would be an issue for us--same with the bench seating. Also the Rosborough's have a bit shorter V berth then the C Dory or Tom Cat. If I owned one, I would have taken out the hanging locker or shelves on the port side to make the bunk longer. I have not been aboard or run a Digby 46. The Rangers are all going to be difficult to add more accessories in the cabin, since they have limited wire routing and room to add another chart plotter etc. I call them "fancy interiors". The C Dorys are easier to customize. I have had the choice of the C Dory 25 vs the Venture 26 twice--and chosen the C Dory 25, because I like the interior arrangement more--also there is a false floor and "bilge" in the cabin. There seemed to be water always in this bilge on the several boats I looked at.

For handling around docks, I did prefer the Tom Cat with the widely spaced twin engines. I found that the Suzuki 150's (up to the 200 hp on the same block) were faster than the Honda's or Yamahas-and I liked the ride better on the Tom Cat, especially in rough weather. I come from a background of long distance racing and cruising in sailboats and trawlers, and have covered the entire Coast of N. America and two trips across the Atlantic I have used the CDory 25 and Tom Cat from Keys in Florida to Icy Straits AK--I have not done the entire loop, but over half of the segments, and the Mississippi, St. Crois, Cumberland and Tennessee Rivers. I have run from Pensacola to Apalachicola and back many times If I was doing the "loop" I probably would go with the Tom Cat 255, but would be safe and cormfortable in any of the boats you have chosen. A guy in a 12' Jon Boat and two gals in a 16' aluminum skiff have also done the Loop..so any C Dory would beat that in comfort.

You have a great tow vehicle--so no worry there. The heavier boats are often more of a pain to launch on many of our ramps. You cannot go wrong on any of these. Be sure and get rides in all of the boats you are considering. Try and be out in some moderately rough weather in all of them.
 
Thank you so much thataway! That is exactly the info I was wanting. A lot of information to digest here. Briefly, thank you for confirming my thoughts on the three hulls. I have always leaned toward the Tomcat for what I thought was smoother overall ride, and slightly larger berth. However, it is the most expensive of the short list, so we re trying to get some rides in all the boats we can! Our goal is to buy just once, so we may wind up adjusting the budget.
 
Hi mb,

The 2010 TC255 is our 13th trailer boat in 45 years. We’ve been cruising on it for 13 years now, including over 7,000 water miles of the Great Loop in one-way Segments over the past 10 years. We just replaced the 2011 Yamaha F150’s with 2024 Yamaha F150’s with the Helmsman EX Group 2 pkg. We regard it as the ideal non-overwide trailer boat for a cruising couple. Our NO GO criteria are official NOAA seas OVER 2 feet, wind over 18 MPH or gusts over 25, which will generally be just under SCA conditions. We use three forecasts, each based on different models. We've been caught out in way worse when they were all wrong. The boat won't break, but some of your bones might. We're docked in gusts to 29 MPH in this blow, 39 MPH last week (over 35 is gale force) and perfectly comfortable. The Gold loopers in the GH47 docked behind us offered us their spare stateroom last evening. They don't know this boat.

The boat in Heavy Cruise Mode + 15g gas weighs 11,040 lbs on the scale, five years later an incredibly consistent 11,060 lbs with 1,050# tongue weight. A 14k rated 2,000# Float-On trailer with EOH brakes costs about $18,000. Full gas in two 75g tanks weighs 900 lbs and affects performance; the only times we took that on was for the Gulf Crossing and the longest Loop leg, Hoppie's barge to Paducah, KY.

It’s stable like a barge at rest. When you step on the gunnel to board, it doesn’t rock like the others (compare this at Hontoon). It runs through chop like a locomotive on rails. It’s faster than any of the others (per Boat Test, 47 MPH with twin 150’s, 51MPH with Suzuki 175’s). You can spin tight 360’s with one engine in F, the other in R so no need for thrusters (this takes some practice). It has by far the largest berth in class, which is closer to a rectangle between the sponsons, not a V-berth into a bow. Ladies love the private aft head/shower. The expansive cockpit is 45 SF, vs 50 SF on the Ranger-27 (not R25) and pleasantly close to water level. There is so much storage space you’ll forget where you put it without a spreadsheet. Three Group 31 batteries easily fit under the transom seat and are easy for us to change out safely @ 75# each. Rigging of the plumbing, 12v and 120v systems, engine systems, and add-on electronics is easily accessed. I installed/replaced all the electronics including radar + mast myself. In the R27, in order to access the N2k network backbone, one must first remove the refrigerator! That is fricking ridiculous, as is the glass vase basin in the head and the wine bottle cooler. Granite countertops on a boat are ridiculous, and carrying around large rocks, but I digress.

The downside is the cost. Fiberglass is a petroleum product, and a cat uses 65% more of it than a monohull. But prices have come down, and if you buy the right boat the first time, it saves over the long haul. We paid $105,000 back in 2012, so our pro rated costs are under $8,000/year, and we still think exploring waterways on our own boat is the most fun you can have with your pants on.

We're at our favorite 5 star marina resort In FMB until March (Bob thinks we're nuts, but at $31/night it's cheaper than staying at home and the pools are heated). You're welcome to come down to visit and check out the boat, no ride promised. Full disclosure…the only two couples who toured our TC255 (no rides) both bought a new one. One of them is signed up for Hontoon with us, but you'd likely get more individual time if you drive down here to Pink Shell. You can take any pics and measurements you want. PM me to exchange phone numbers or chat if interested. Happy hunting!

John
 
I want to make one "correction" to John's excellent and comprehensive post, and that is "go/no go" wave height. If you have 3 foot waves at 3 second intervals you will beat to death in any small boat, as well as difficult to handle no matter which way you are going. But if you have an other 3 feet set at 30 second intervals--that is still a "go".

A general rule of thumb is that: The wave peroid in seconds should be at least 2 to 3 times the wave height in feet.

There are other points which are valid: avoid going out if the wave height is 30% or more of your boat's length.

10% of waves can be nearly double the significant wave height-that can influence your decision

Waves from ahead or abeam are more dangerous that aft--but if aft, you have to be able to match the wave train's speed.

Lets look at a couple of examples:
3 foot wave at 4 seconds is a "NO GO"
Wind agianst current will steep the seas. IF you start off with little current, but then have to go thru a narrow area where there is
a higher current and opposing wind, then the whole trip is a "NO GO"--that is why when you leave a port you should know what the weather and current is doing at both intermittant and final passes or harbor bars you must pass.
 
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