New camperback - a few detail questions for the gang....

[bcassal]

My last comment, I'm going to be gone for a week.

I would consider refiguring your bimini frame to store forward against the cabin roof top. It must be an enormous PIA to remove the whole thing and carry it in a vehicle.
Are you getting a road cover? I wouldnt be without one. 't keeps stuff from blowing into and out of the boat, sheds water and discourages need-do-wells, both on the road and in storage.

I love my Renogy 100 watt flexable solar charger. It only weighs 3 lbs. There must be many ways to mount it. I have not plugged Carpy into any electric power since I installed it in April.

Good luck, I'll look forward to seeing what you'll come up with.

Carpy

 

[Aurelia]

Just a contrary note. We trailer with ours up and had it built to do that. It looks really boxy and is but it sheds wind well enough. Not all tops need to fold. Panels should provide options with various frame designs. Thinking through the details like you are is great but don't think for a moment that you can't improve on the average folding frame design.

Greg

 

[My IRA]

Sunbeam,

I placed some photos of a top that Helen and I recently made for our 23 Venture (in MY IRA folder). If you or any other Brat wishes to undertake this type of project, I would be happy to share our knowledge (through trial and error... lots of patterning). All panels zip out independently and front panels also zip to center.

We examined many camper backs before starting this project.

Hope this helps someone. Send me a PM if you have any questions.

 

[Sunbeam]

So great that you all are taking the time to post your comments.

George: I'll probably put mine on the roof, but knowing that you have portables that you only put out when you are at anchor makes me think that my idea that it won't hurt too much to have them covered by the dinghy when underway may not be too far off the mark.

Aurelia: Hmm.. that would sure be easy. I actually gave serious thought to a hardtop like on the Nancy H (with removable side curtains) - and if there was someone who "did those," I likely would! This just one project I'm not going to undertake myself, I don't think. There is still a slight chance this "window" will not work out, and if so I will re-evaluate that. My other option is to trailer back up here after Powell, but... a week's trailering just for that... not so appealing! By the way, who made yours? I actually like boxy

Bruce: I think it was Will-C who said he takes his frame down. I keep mine (aluminum bimini frame currently) up all the time. I couldn't at first, because there was no (practical) way to get the bimini off the frame, so I had to take the whole bloody thing down each time - what a monster in the cockpit! Last summer I had the canvas shop put zippers in the bimini and now I just take the cloth off and stow it, and then run a couple of lines in an "X" from the upper corners of the bimini frame to the stern cleats (otherwise it wobbles as I drive; with the lines it is rock solid). I would like a camperback frame to be able to be towed up as well (albeit perhaps folded).

My IRA: I'm going to have a look in your album now, thanks.
Edited to add: My IRA - i don't see that you have an album? Can you point me to the photos? (I'm not sure where your folder would be.)

Sunbeam

 

[My IRA]

Sunbeam,

Page 21 of "Photos" above but also listed to the left under "recent photo activity".

Jerry

 

[Sunbeam]

Wow, that's impressive! Really nice. I can't imagine making something like that.

Could I ask you what color fabric (name of color) you used? It's one thing to look at the little squares online, but another to see them for real. It sure matches your boat nicely.

Page 21 of "Photos" above but also listed to the left under "recent photo activity".

Aha, thank you. I was thrown by the fact that there was not the usual link below your name in the left margin of the thread.

 

[Will-C]

Carpy,
We do not use our camper or Bimini canvas all the time. We usually only put it up when we are cruising for a week or more. We have zippered sleeves that allow for pretty easy removal of the top canvas from the frame. The frame has for disconnect pins and that comes off pretty easy as well. My wife and I have it down pretty well so putting the canvas up or down is not a much of a chore. Because we boat a fair amount in saltwater the frame when not in use is one less thing to have to deal with or have rattling around. For me leaving the canvas up rolled up while trailering just exposes it to the elements, chaffing etc. Since we fish it's also one less thing to have to deal with or work around. We don't see the need for changing the way we currently operate.
D.D.

 

[Aurelia]

We had ours for the 19 made by Seats and Stuff in Port Orchard. It is just one guy who is pretty clever but I would warn that while his work turned out to be very functional, it is also a bit crude cosmetically (sewing). We are very happy overall and it is working great for us. The headroom for me makes the boxiness well worth it. I have seen the enclosures that are flush with the cabin and they do follow the lines of the boat and appear much less boxy but unless you are under about 5.5ft, it would not be very livable back there which is a reason why many owners don't keep them in the enclosed configuration most of the time. Make it comfortable and functional first then subtract from there just as much as you have to for asthetics.


We leave the whole thing in place even for freeway travel and have done a fair amount of that recently. We can still take down the sides and back or roll them up out of the way when we want to but we did not have the top panel made to ever be removed. We have not bug netting because we just don't have that problem much in this area. When we had a couple of buggy nights up north, we just used the screens in the cabin windows for venting.

The frame is 7/8 SS bolted to the boat all-round so it is not going anywhere. The canvas on our 25 could fold but was designed to be stronger than normal and it could be trailered and has been with all the canvas in place as well.

Greg

 

[dotnmarty]

re the color question-somewhere along this thread you mention, I think, that you like the lighter color so one see "more boat" rather than being overwhelmed by the big colored camperback. I like that idea too, but, having a light tan (maybe it's taupe) mooring cover, it looks good from a distance but does show dirt close up. Maybe that just a function of the fact that it is up all the time the boat's on the trailer. Here's a picture of the camperback on the Marinaut 'Betty Ann' that I admire.

 

[My IRA]

Sunbeam,

Boat color is Nomad and the fabric color is Taupe. We chose Top Notch fabric which is made by the same company as Top Gun. The fabric is great but very difficult to sew in that it puckers if not sewn carefully.

If we were to begin again, I think that we would have chosen Sunbrella even though it doesn't wear as well (Tradeoffs).

My advice for you is to spend time examining tops and then list the features you would like in yours. Pay close attention to construction techniques, material quality, and ease of entry/exit from the boat with the top deployed. A material choice example is binding, there are several options but Sunbrella Bias binding will last much longer (costs more than twice as much as others).

 

[olsurfdog]

Jerry & Helen (My IRA)
I second Sunbeam's "impressive" and add "really" impressive!!!!
At the risk of hijacking this thread (I would PM you but I'm sure this would be interesting to others): more info on your project. Where did you get your materials and machine (& which machine)? What is your background, ie. sewing background. The DIY price of your camper back puts it in the realm of possible for me---if it's a project I could tackle. I'm good with my hands and have lots of construction skills and fiberglass and metal work but very little sewing. I see that Sailrite has loads of DiY videos and info as well as materials and machines. This may warrent a new thread but I would love to hear anything you can add. From design onwards to completion.
Thanks!

 

[My IRA]

Michael,

Thanks to you and Sunbeam for the kind words but the real praise goes to my wife Helen, who did all of the sewing (she has made everything from dresses, suits, to BBQ covers) but never a bimini or boat enclosure (this was her first attempt).

I will try to answer all of your questions below:

1. Sailrite is a go to source for great information and we used it all (even ordered the camperback video).

2. The machine we selected is an Ultrafeed (Sailrite sells these and they come on sale regularly).

3. Spend some time figuring out what you want. We spent a year examining tops from this site and on every dock that we walked. Also, we have owned three other boats with canvas enclosures, so we had some idea of what we wanted.

4. 95% of our supplies came from two sources, Sailrite and Rochford Supply. Sailrite has a more extensive offering of everything that one might need for this project but Rochford is cheaper (much cheaper) on the limited offerings (YKK zippers, Stainless snaps, and the Top Notch fabric we used).

5. Before you start, you must spend time on your boat's deck, visualizing: interior height, support mount locations, how the top will stow, window locations and size, panel locations and size, how you will use the top, frame diameter and material (we chose 1" dia. stainless thin wall tubing), any special needs (people with limited mobility, will downriggers be used for fishing while the top is deployed, etc.). Next, order Sailrite's Full Boat Enclosure Video (this really helps). Small clips of this video are available free on their site WWW.sailrite.com

6. Note: this is not for novice sewers. Find someone with sewing experience to perform this task.

7. Because of the size of this project (large panels) you will need dedicated space with tables in place to support panels during sewing.

8. Most importantly, you must have confidence and determination that you can and will complete the top and that it will meet your needs (top shops don't get the big $ for nothing).

9. Next, make a bill of materials and order (order extra pattern material, fabric material, window material, zippers and fasteners... shipping costs add up fast). We chose Durascrim pattern material because of low cost and controlled stretch.

10. I made a pattern for the frame and Hayden Island Canvas (Portland, OR bent the frame). Get your frame locally if you can (shipping is expensive). Helen and I positioned the frame as planned; cut the supports with a tubing cutter (that's why we used the thin wall stainless); installed the Accon quick release mounts (overdrill and fill these holes and seal, we used Boatlife Caulk).

11. Pattern each section carefully ( you will need clamps to secure the pattern material) as the panel will fit no better than the pattern. Seamstick is used to hold the pattern to the frame bows Patterns are traced on fabric with soapstone pencil. Again, I would strongly suggest ordering Sailrite's Full Boat Enclosure video for detailed guidance with patterning and fabrication of the enclosure.

12. After panels are cut and rechecked for proper fit, they can be finished with binding, zippers, windows, etc.

I hope that this helps, you can PM me for more details or advice. A few pictures of the construction process are in our MY IRA album and in the recent photos section. There is so much more (photos and information) that we are willing to share with anyone wanting to make their own enclosure (it's fun, frustrating, challenging, and you'll learn something new).

We have benefitted so much from folks on this site who freely share their expertise with others and now it's our opportunity to share (C-Brats offer a sense of community so lacking in our society).

 

[thataway]

My compliments to the crew of My Ira for a very professional looking job. Also an excellent post on the subject of making any canvas project.

Especially noteworthy here is the amount of binding used--and this is often lacking in less expensive professional jobs.

Making a Dodger/Camper back are some of the most complicated projects one can tackle. I have been doring boat canvas work for over 60 years, and I would not tackle one, even with my Admiral's help (and she is an excellent seemstress.)

One subject not touched upon is the clear vinly. This makes a lot of difference in both the difficulty, durability and clarity of the windows. Strataglass or Ez To C are at the upper end. Then 30 mil pressed plate vinyl, and down the line is 20 mil rolled vinly. There are even lexan windows available for camper backs, but as one can imagine, the sewing is more difficult with the higher end materials.

I don't have my camper canvas or Bimini up when traveling any long distance at highway speeds. A very well made Camper back or slant back can survive this, but I see many which where the seams are not bound or even hot knifed on the inside, and the working in the wind will eventually do damage.

The cost of postage was evident to me recently when I ordered some snaps, and some more binding tape--the postage was as much as the materials I ordered!

 

[Aurelia]

One more detail. I talked to our canvas guy about a method of better sealing the snapped down edges to minimize the ability for spray in rougher conditions to squirt up through between the boat and the canvas along mostly the sides of the boat. He recommend a tubular gasket to be sewn into the bound edge which presses snugly against the boat when the snaps are engaged. I can report after a few months of use that this method not only keeps any spray out, it also keeps salt water off the snaps entirely which has me rinsing less and the snaps looking like they did on day one. They also make the edge generally easier to grab and handle.

Greg

 

[AstoriaDave]

I sort of figured those tubular gaskets were SOP for canvas. Certainly made the dodger weatherproof and wave proof on my Bartender. Better canvas makers probably automatically include them.

 

[Sunbeam]

Those gaskets look really good. And no track left on the boat when you unsnap them either. Have you noticed any wear on the gelcoat from them? I'm putting this on my "ask about" list, thanks!

I sort of figured those tubular gaskets were SOP for canvas. Certainly made the dodger weatherproof and wave proof on my Bartender. Better canvas makers probably automatically include them.

Just curious, but were the ones you were talking about "freestanding" like this? Or were they the more typical application where a similar profile slides into a track that's mounted to the boat (like an awning track on an RV)? I've had the latter style on a dodger, where the welt (like the gasket) slid into a track; but never one that just pressed like a gasket.

I have to choose the color today. I think I'm between unity ashe, taupe, and spa. I know, spa is a little weird, and I probably won't choose it, but I really like green and blue, and also, although you can't tell in the photos, spa has flecks of rust and blue in it (it's the only one of the three I have seen in real life vs. just on my computer monitor). It kind of reminds me of the old Otis Permasol you'd see on classic boats.

In the mockups, I put a sliver of each color on the forehatch so I could see it near the non-skid. I'm not really a big fan of neutral tans, but didn't want Mediterranenan Blue either. So the Spa and Sapphire are my foray into "wild colors" and the others are slightly greyish tans, because I prefer grey but the non-skid is buff colored.

There are mockups of a few additional color in my album, here:
http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?set_ ... _album.php

 

[olsurfdog]

Jerry
Thank you for all the information on your camper back project. I'm not sure I'm up to it and while it's on my "bucket list" I've got plenty more to do before I get to it. A camper back would be nice-our weather here is mild enough that my bimini will do for now. If and when I undertake it, you've set a high standard to live up to, hope my efforts will be worthy!!

Sunbeam
Sorry for the slight hijack of a good thread. For me, at least, it makes an already good thread even more useful. It goes on my list for future reference. I think it will be useful for "future generations" as well!

 

[Aurelia]

Ours is very much a freestanding design but we still used the awning rail on the trailing edge of the roof. This provides a lot of strength at that edge and seals it up firmly at the most exposed section. We don't take ours down so the "hassle" of using that rail is not a factor. We use the gasketed snap down edges nearly everywhere else on our top and the color we used is Marine Blue Sunbrella. We considered the coated version but were talked out of it for condensation reasons. I think you could get by with the gasketed snap method across the roof line but it would not be quite as strong or as weatherproof.

The primary objectives of our top were freestanding strength and ultimate weatherproofness (we live back there and keep it dry). He did go a little overboard on the snaps for sure!

Greg

 

[Sunbeam]

Sunbeam
Sorry for the slight hijack of a good thread. For me, at least, it makes an already good thread even more useful. It goes on my list for future reference. I think it will be useful for "future generations" as well!

Oh absolutely! It wasn't a hijack, it was an enhancement :thup And Jerry added a lot of value with his well-thought-out posts.

Greg: I do have an awning rail on the cabin top already for my bimini, so I'll be keeping that; I may go with the gaskets on the sides though.

 

[dotnmarty]

Colors! When I was working for a Volvo dealer the service mgr would send me to bring the customer's car around. He would hand me the key and say "get Ms. Jones S60, it's moondust" Having no idea what color moondust is I would walk into the sea of Volvos and press the panic button on the remote and the moondust S60 would present itself. I still couldn't tell you what moondust is (or was). Good luck with your selection.