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New 22 cruiser for me?
- Thread starter 20dauntless
- Start date
20dauntless":y2pvdb5v said:so I'll think about the windlass. Does anyone know how much it costs from the factory? Or how much it would cost to add on later?
It is not just the cost to consider. If you choose to not get the windlass initially, then change your mind later and install one, it is my understanding that you'll end up with two "rode" holes on the bow deck.
Perhaps, someone can confirm that observation for me.
Two more thumbs up here on the windlass. And one more thought about not snubbing off the line when anchored. The manual on the windlass says to NOT rely on the windlass alone to hold the chain/line when anchored. We always tie ours off to the bow cleat (not the bow eye) when anchored. It only takes a second and gives you more peace of mind.
Best wishes,
Jim
Best wishes,
Jim
marvin4239
New member
It is not just the cost to consider. If you choose to not get the windlass initially, then change your mind later and install one, it is my understanding that you'll end up with two "rode" holes on the bow deck.
Perhaps, someone can confirm that observation for me.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure the anchor deck pipe is optional but the factory probably installs either the deck pipe or windlass before sending them out unless specified not to intstall the deck pipe. My boat had the deck pipe and I had the dealer install the windlass so yes I have two holes in the deck. I'd rather not have the deck pipe but it's not a big deal and I guess adds a little ventilation to the v-berth. The deck pipe is on the starboard side and doesn't interferr with the installation of the windlass.
Perhaps, someone can confirm that observation for me.[/quote]
I'm pretty sure the anchor deck pipe is optional but the factory probably installs either the deck pipe or windlass before sending them out unless specified not to intstall the deck pipe. My boat had the deck pipe and I had the dealer install the windlass so yes I have two holes in the deck. I'd rather not have the deck pipe but it's not a big deal and I guess adds a little ventilation to the v-berth. The deck pipe is on the starboard side and doesn't interferr with the installation of the windlass.
flapbreaker
New member
You should at least have a kicker for back up power. Also, the anchor on a boat is a safety item and not just for mooring. Should you loose power at an inconvient time it could be quicker and safer to drop anchor rather than drift into rocks, ect. I would think that adding the windlass later would ultimately cost more down the road.
You had asked if a dingy would fit under the low arch. I wouldn't if you had a high top. I don't know if you had the low arch and a low top though. Maybe someone has experience with this setup.
You had asked if a dingy would fit under the low arch. I wouldn't if you had a high top. I don't know if you had the low arch and a low top though. Maybe someone has experience with this setup.
We opted to not get a windlass when we bought C-Cakes. Last week I gritted my teeth and cut 2 1/2" and 4 1/2" holes in her deck to install a windlass. We moor much more than anchor but have quickly come to see the benefits of having one, its not just the issue of strong young backs but more importantly one of safety especially when singlehanding. I bought a new Lewmar V700 online for under $600. That includes the switch and circuit breaker plus all mounting hardware. I had to buy the large hole saw for about $35 and found a good source for ancor wire, lugs, etc. Total cost for every thing should be around $750. Installation, aside from the nervewracking task of cutting holes in your boat is not really that hard. Dinghies will not fit under a low radar arch plus the higher arch gets the radar just a little bit higher. The high top is, IMHO very worthwhile, (I'm 6'2"); not only can I and tall guests stand without worrying about headroom but it allowed me to build small chart/book racks along the inside of the cabin, just makes the cabin seem much roomier.
20dauntless
New member
I'll look into the windlass, and see if the dealer can install one for less than the factory. I think I'll try and sit in a 22 with and without the high top to get a feel for whether or not we want that option. I am hoping to sea trial a 22 soon (definitely before we buy it!), but that probably won't happen for three weeks since I'll be out of town. Which dealer do you guys recommend in the Seattle/Anacortes area?
Dauntless: I'm going to buck the trend and recommend against the windlass for now. Here's why: Your intended use pattern will likely not include that much anchoring out. Like you apparently will, we use our Dory primarily to get from Anacortes to Decatur, and also day trips, fishing, whale watching, etc. Moored/trailer stored in Anacortes, and on the hook at Decatur. I hate to say it, but you'll also use the stove, sink and berths a lot less than you think. The reason is you have your cabin as a primary destination. I firmly believe in having excellent ground tackle installed and available, but we've gone 5 years with the C-Dory and never used the anchor once! In our case a windlass would likely have failed due to lack of use, and complicated an emergency deployment. Our use pattern is why we went from a Cruiser to an Angler last year. Cockpit storage to haul gear and for crabbing is much more important than a kitchen/dinette berth for us. We got our 2007 Angler with standard top, twin Honda 40's, Hummingbird GPS/Sonar combo, Standard Horizon DSC VHF, 2 Scotty electric downriggers (the Scotty mount/plug will accommodate an Atlas pot puller - $500), a robust Delta fast set anchor/ground tackle setup, and a new tandemEZ Loader trailer complete for right at $45K from EQ, who unfortunately doesn't sell C-Dory anymore. Electric wipers and hydraulic steering came standard with the boat. I don't question your Cruiser selection, however, since they're easier to market if you ever choose to sell, and are obviously more liveable if you do get into extended overnight cruising. I just didn't want to pay extra for things I knew we wouldn't use. I would also recommend choosing one of the integrated/expandable electronics packages so you could add radar, engine monitors, etc. as time goes on. I wanted to pay cash so I had to hold the line on the extras. I will therefore need to add a stand-alone radar unit when the time comes. Best of luck with all of this. Rigging a boat is a very fun process. See you later on Decatur! Mike.
20dauntless
New member
westward,
One of the reasons we want to get a C-Dory is because of the large pilothouse of the cruiser model. Since we don't fish, its nice to be able to get more people inside, even if they can't sit down. If we get the boat, we will probably get Furuno NavNet electronics, including radar. Did the $45k include tax? The quote I have gotten was right around $60k, with tax, but I think we should be able to get the boat for closer to $53k-54k with tax. Any thoughts on that?
One of the reasons we want to get a C-Dory is because of the large pilothouse of the cruiser model. Since we don't fish, its nice to be able to get more people inside, even if they can't sit down. If we get the boat, we will probably get Furuno NavNet electronics, including radar. Did the $45k include tax? The quote I have gotten was right around $60k, with tax, but I think we should be able to get the boat for closer to $53k-54k with tax. Any thoughts on that?
20dauntless
New member
I forgot to mention that we will not be getting a trailer as the boat will be kept at Twin Bridges.
I'm 6' and don't need the high top. Personally prefer the looks with lower top and wouldn't want it higher unless really needed.
Never had a windless, so it could be said we don't know what we're missing. Cruising to us is much about anchoring and many problems safety and other wise can be prevented by doing it right. Have a 22 lb bruce type anchor with 30 feet of chain and have dropped anchor many times a day multiplied by many days on an extended cruise. Not much problem unless seaweed is hung up on anchor or chain. Have anchored in some pretty extreme places and never came close to having a safety problem, that being said if I had been alone it would have been. Not trying to convince you of doing without the windless you can see by the advice of many how high they rate it just letting you know that there is a least one of us that uses the anchor considerably without a windless. Personally untill my back can't stand it will do without. Prefer to keep it as simple as possible.
Jay
Never had a windless, so it could be said we don't know what we're missing. Cruising to us is much about anchoring and many problems safety and other wise can be prevented by doing it right. Have a 22 lb bruce type anchor with 30 feet of chain and have dropped anchor many times a day multiplied by many days on an extended cruise. Not much problem unless seaweed is hung up on anchor or chain. Have anchored in some pretty extreme places and never came close to having a safety problem, that being said if I had been alone it would have been. Not trying to convince you of doing without the windless you can see by the advice of many how high they rate it just letting you know that there is a least one of us that uses the anchor considerably without a windless. Personally untill my back can't stand it will do without. Prefer to keep it as simple as possible.
Jay
flapbreaker
New member
20dauntless":2hgla4kc said:westward,
One of the reasons we want to get a C-Dory is because of the large pilothouse of the cruiser model. Since we don't fish, its nice to be able to get more people inside, even if they can't sit down. If we get the boat, we will probably get Furuno NavNet electronics, including radar. Did the $45k include tax? The quote I have gotten was right around $60k, with tax, but I think we should be able to get the boat for closer to $53k-54k with tax. Any thoughts on that?
He bought the angler version so his pricing would be less. Also it doesn't sound like he bought much in the way of electronics or a radar arch but maybe he can clear that up. There are so many little things that can add up and comparing one price to another can be difficult unless you get a complete list of add-ons. A full electronics package can easily cost 3k-5k.
20dauntless
New member
Westward,
I haven't recieved any PM's from you and tried to send you one this morning and it is still sitting in my outbox. Am I missing something? You can always email me at s a m l a n d s m a n (at) c o m c a s t . n e t
Thanks!
I haven't recieved any PM's from you and tried to send you one this morning and it is still sitting in my outbox. Am I missing something? You can always email me at s a m l a n d s m a n (at) c o m c a s t . n e t
Thanks!
I wqnder what type of conditions some folks anchor in? One should have the anchor secured on the roller/pulpit when under way. This is either a pin thru the crown of the anchor, or a latch down/bungee cord/ line to a cleat from the anchor shank, when the boat is under way. Thus you need to go foreward to prepare the anchor to deploy windlass or not. Some anchors and rollers will not self launch. When setting the anchor, many times we either feel the rode by hand, or put our foot on it or the chain, to see if it is dragging. When the anchor is set in, then we apply power in reverse--after tying the anchor rode off on a cleat. Never apply full power in reverse when setting the anchor line left in the windlass.
You can leave it on the windlass if you wish--but the windlass is not designed for this--and sometime it can cause serious injury to a person or damage to the boat if you moor with only the windlass "securing" the anchor rode.
As for how to tie off the anchor rode--you can take it to a cleat on the side, or a single cleat thru the bow roller or thru chocks. I avoid this, because there is possibility of chafe of the line on the roller or sides of the pulpiit/roller. Boats are lost because of failure to take this precaution. I have a snubber line rigged so that it can be shackled to the bow eye--this does not mean that one dangles over the boat (although I can fairly easily reach the bow eye on the Tom Cat). The line is shackled to the bow eye (re-enforced--which it should be anyway for trailering, if it is not well backed)--and the line is tied to a cleat on the foredeck before you head out. This line can be secured to the anchor rode with a rolling hitch after the anchor is set. Even then, the anchor line is tied to a cleat, not left in the windlass.
How does one get to the foredeck? There are two ways--one is doing the tiptoe dance around the narrow side deck. The other is far safer--unless you got the odd model which does not have a foreward hatch, or you cannot fit thru the hatch--you go foreward on the bunk, open the hatch, reach out and deploy the anchor. If you need to get onto the deck, you go thru the hatch.
On the CD 25 I put in the Windlass after we purchased the boat. The anchor hause pipe is still there. It may not be a bad idea, since you can either carry a second light line, or perhaps dock lines, snubber lines etc in a mesh "bag" under this deck plate. You can also untangle the main anchor rode in many instances by reaching thru this plate.
I had owned 5 ocean going sailboats, (more than 29 feet in lenght) including a 35 foot motorsailor I took to Mexico and a 45 foot racing boat which went to Mexico several times before buying my first windlass. I had no problem handling 22 lb to 45 lb anchors, 3/8" chain up to 30 feet and rodes 1/2 to 5/8" in diameter on these boats. I had over 33 years of anchor handling with no windlass all on boats larger than the C Dory25, where we anchored every time before owning a windlass. Having a windlass is fine and I enjoy mine, but it is not essential for a 22 foot boat.
As for the radar arch--I have not had radar arches on my C Dories--I didn't need the rocket launchers--which seem to be one of the real features of the arches. There are far cheaper and equally as good ways to put the radar on the cabin roof--putting it up one foot higher will make absolutely zero difference in the practical use of the radar. I think that the dinghy was easier to put on the roof of a C Dory without the Radar arch--put the spontoons foreward on each side of the radar pedistal. No reason to have the arch to put the dinghy under. Lash the dinghy to the hand rails.
As Jim said the other day--we all do things differently. I have good reasons for doing what I do based on over 60 years of boating--I am sure that others have good reasons for how they rig their boats. There is no "Perfect" way.
You can leave it on the windlass if you wish--but the windlass is not designed for this--and sometime it can cause serious injury to a person or damage to the boat if you moor with only the windlass "securing" the anchor rode.
As for how to tie off the anchor rode--you can take it to a cleat on the side, or a single cleat thru the bow roller or thru chocks. I avoid this, because there is possibility of chafe of the line on the roller or sides of the pulpiit/roller. Boats are lost because of failure to take this precaution. I have a snubber line rigged so that it can be shackled to the bow eye--this does not mean that one dangles over the boat (although I can fairly easily reach the bow eye on the Tom Cat). The line is shackled to the bow eye (re-enforced--which it should be anyway for trailering, if it is not well backed)--and the line is tied to a cleat on the foredeck before you head out. This line can be secured to the anchor rode with a rolling hitch after the anchor is set. Even then, the anchor line is tied to a cleat, not left in the windlass.
How does one get to the foredeck? There are two ways--one is doing the tiptoe dance around the narrow side deck. The other is far safer--unless you got the odd model which does not have a foreward hatch, or you cannot fit thru the hatch--you go foreward on the bunk, open the hatch, reach out and deploy the anchor. If you need to get onto the deck, you go thru the hatch.
On the CD 25 I put in the Windlass after we purchased the boat. The anchor hause pipe is still there. It may not be a bad idea, since you can either carry a second light line, or perhaps dock lines, snubber lines etc in a mesh "bag" under this deck plate. You can also untangle the main anchor rode in many instances by reaching thru this plate.
I had owned 5 ocean going sailboats, (more than 29 feet in lenght) including a 35 foot motorsailor I took to Mexico and a 45 foot racing boat which went to Mexico several times before buying my first windlass. I had no problem handling 22 lb to 45 lb anchors, 3/8" chain up to 30 feet and rodes 1/2 to 5/8" in diameter on these boats. I had over 33 years of anchor handling with no windlass all on boats larger than the C Dory25, where we anchored every time before owning a windlass. Having a windlass is fine and I enjoy mine, but it is not essential for a 22 foot boat.
As for the radar arch--I have not had radar arches on my C Dories--I didn't need the rocket launchers--which seem to be one of the real features of the arches. There are far cheaper and equally as good ways to put the radar on the cabin roof--putting it up one foot higher will make absolutely zero difference in the practical use of the radar. I think that the dinghy was easier to put on the roof of a C Dory without the Radar arch--put the spontoons foreward on each side of the radar pedistal. No reason to have the arch to put the dinghy under. Lash the dinghy to the hand rails.
As Jim said the other day--we all do things differently. I have good reasons for doing what I do based on over 60 years of boating--I am sure that others have good reasons for how they rig their boats. There is no "Perfect" way.
Flapbreaker is correct: I bought a fairly simple boat. My main premuims were twin engines, a very nice trailer, and a custom sumbrella slant-back cockpit cover. Les sold me the Hummingbird GPS/Sonar unit at his cost. That and a nicer VHF are all the electronics I specified. Surprisingly enough, the Factory discounts the Angler very little from the Cruiser price. It's the goodies you can fit onto a Cruiser that make the difference! Since we never really overnight on the boat we didn't need all the goodies, but I realize that's not the norm for most C-Brats. I actually had EQ remove the installed radar arch for a credit, which they cheerfully agreed to do. Here are some installed prices (last year, quoted from EQ, please don't hold anyone to this) for informational purposes: V700 SS anchor windlass $1,000.00; Raymarine C-80 system with 8.4" color screen: $4,300.00 (add $1,000 for E-80); Honda T-40's: $11,700.00; Radar arch: $620.00; KVH Azimuth 1000: $325.00; Standard Horizon Quest VHF: $495.00 ($525 for Matrix model); Simrad AP14H autopilot: $2,200.00 (AP16VF $3,000); upgrade to Honda T-50's was + 800; Honda 90 was $8,500.00; trailer was $4,200.00. Les mentioned that a fully loaded Cruiser would get up over 60K if you added autopilots, etc.
terraplane
New member
My 22 C Dory, 2005, from Cutter on Chesapeake, came with an all chain rode it was their way. I anchor out about one out of five times..lots of friends with docks. I have not used anything but the windlass for holding.
What is the best way to snub off an all chain rode?
terraplane
What is the best way to snub off an all chain rode?
terraplane
garyk":23d5v1zt said:we always snub off the anchor line while on the hook over night.
What are some of the issues you are thinking of, maybe we're missing something?
Before I get into the issue at hand, I have to make sure that everyone understands that my feeble attempt at humor at Bob's expense (the screed remark) was in no way intended to convey the thought that Bob's posts were long and monotonous (which is the definition of screed). Bob's posts are anything but, and I for one am grateful for all I have learned from him.
To address your question, this is an issue which was discussed at length in other threadssuch as this one. If you get into the 3rd page of posts the subject of how to attach the snubber comes up. The point of my post was that most of the other Brats that I spoke to (rightly or wrongly) don't snub -- which means they don't have foredeck exposure when anchoring.
Warren
20dauntless":3khh1dmt said:We plan on anchoring out some, but a lot of the use will be going from Anacortes to our cabin on Decatur Island, so I'll think about the windlass. Does anyone know how much it costs from the factory? Or how much it would cost to add on later? Without that option I have gotten a quote of around 56k for that boat, before any incentives or negotiations. Any idea of how much I should expect to pay?
Somewhere I recently saw a 22 for sale that was set up as a water taxi or commuter boat. Sounds like it would be perfect for you -- maybe someone else will remember where that boat was advertised.
Warren