MMSI and International Use

L

LesR

Member
I went to BOATUS to apply for MMSI number and read the following:

"If your vessel is required to carry a radio onboard (“Compulsory Equipped”), or if you plan to visit or communicate in a foreign port including Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, and the British Virgin Islands, DO NOT proceed with this application. You are legally required to obtain a Ship Station License from the FCC"

While we have not yet done so, we expect to do some cruising in Canada, so went to the FCC site to apply for a ship station license and MMSI. Unfortunately, the cost is 160.00. Being frugal, I am wondering what those of you who routinely travel to Canada have done.

- Les
 
I spent the $160. Part of the issue (as I understand it) is that the FCC MMSI registration assures that the MMSI number and associated information is properly populated in the databases of the foreign countries (or at least is available to them through some search). I could be wrong about this, but when I last researched this, I got the impression that the MMSI number wouldn't be properly linked to the associated information if the Canadian CG did a search unless I registered through the FCC.
 
Ditto. We are in Canada often and just decided to go the official way. I've never heard of any problem about a BoatUS MMSI but Roger is right.
 
Formally if you go to Canada, you should have obtained a Radio License from the FCC. I did this with my larger boats, for a number of reasons, including that we visited a number of foreign countries.

This fee may be one of the reasons that more people do not get the FCC MMSI number and thus are not able to use the full function of the DSC radio. It does not make a lot of sense to have two different systems.
 
I can see Canada from our backyard and routinely cruise that part of Rainy Lake and also the Canadian portion of Lake Superior. I have never heard of licensing of VHF radios being an issue anywhere around here. I would recommend you save yourself the $160.
Al
 
There is an informal agreement that Canada does not require the official license for the VHF radio. Ham Radio is automatic reciprocity with the US license, but you must put. If you transmit on Ham radio, you must put the Canadian suffix of the operating area. For example when I operated in Canada--KA6PKB/VE7 (British Columbia)

Here is the formal word from the FCC ref VHF:

"If you travel to a foreign port (e.g., Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, British Virgin Islands), a license is required. Additionally, if you travel to a foreign port, you are required to have an operator permit."

In reality in 2000 Canada exempted boats less than 65 feet from having a radio license. The Canadian CG is not interested in enforcing US law. The US law has never been changed to reflect this change.

But the MMSI given by Boat US, Sea Tow etc, and not valid in countries other than the USA--and the official FCC MMSI should be obtained. As noted above, Canada will not have the un-official MMSI in their data base. However, I would think that Canada CG would respond--assuming that a vessel was within range.
 
Like Bob says, Canada stopped requiring station licences some years back. A CG Aux guy I know once said it was keeping people from putting radios aboard. The CG really does want to save lives so I assume they figure it best to go easy on that requirement so more folks would have a radio and then start to learn how to use it. I personally won't put the DSC feature into use as it means another loophole where we have a lot of personal info into data bases shared by who....? The MMSI feature tells a lot of very personal stuff that you now have to keep current. I've leaned toward self sufficiency as a waterman and it has always appeared to me that the DSC thing while on the surface looks well and good, underneath it is what? Perhaps more Big Brother? I got a bit tired of flying recreationally due to controlled airspace issues when I just wanted to put sky under me. I don't like to think of us needing transponders in our boats. One thing I'm seeing now is if you pop up a shipfinder or Marine Traffic app and look at the number of transmitting vessels, it reminds me of an air traffic board. There is a lot of them now. We've had a couple here in the harbour, 80-100 foot yachts, tied to the dock for a week now still transmitting.
 
George,

The MMSI number is connected (in the US database) to your name, address, phone numbers, emergency contact info and boat information. The intention is that such information would be useful to the CG in the event you need to be rescued. While that's a rare (hopefully never) event, the point of the MMSI for many isn't so that they can do DSC with anyone but so that the CG knows something about them and their boat if they need to transmit and emergency DSC call. If you don't do that (and don't use DSC to contact your buddies), the MMSI number is known only to you and the database and the other personal information is not available to anyone else. E.g. your radio doesn't randomly transmit your MMSI number and others can access the database with your personal info in it. So I'm not sure I understand your concerns.
 
Hi Roger you're correct. I do understand the system having sold radios, GPS and handed out MMSI apps when at West Marine. I was pointing out that the data base is shared between various government entities and which is only as good as the info supplied by the owner. Ie if you sell your vessel, the MMSI number stays with the vessel, the new owner has the responsibility to contact government agencies to update all contact info. As Les was asking what folks do, I responded as to what I do and a bit of what I feel. In Canada we've seen articles in boating magazines about DSC being activated and police and coast guard phoning emerg contact information re distress call and worrying people when in fact the boat had been sold, the new owner not updated the info and someone pressed the red button on the radio for 5 seconds. The old owners contacts being worried in the interim unnecessarily
The system works but in my case, I don't want the responsibility to be that involved with my government. As Les found out there is paperwork and costs associated The coast guard customers I used to serve also told me that many people hook the GPS to the radio but don't get the number. In emergency you lean on the button and the system does it's thing. The only deal is the responders don't have vessel or owner info. In our style of cruising I tend toward low key, unobtrusive and simple, and less paperwork. George :smiled
 
What I did: Since I do go into Canada, and since I did want the MMSI to be available to the Canadian CG should the occasion arise..... I went with the US FCC licenses. (I had thought some what ahead and knew that at some point I wanted to add the active AIS and would be required to have MMSI then, sobit the bullet and split the wallet.

What I know: As mentioned above, Canada dropped the requirement for anything under 65 feet. (Shucks, I don't have to worry there :lol: ) I also know that the requirements of the US FCC are not going to be enforced in Canada. The Canadian CG has near immediate access to the MMSI data base and if I push that little red button for 5 seconds, I'd like for them to know what they are looking for --22ft C-Dory pilot house, pleasure craft, burgundy shear stripe on off white and twin engines.

What I think: Not likely any Canadian CG vessel is going to stop you for a safety check and ask to see your radio license. (Of course they could :oops: ) I would be a US boat so coming back into the USA I would have to stop and check in at US Customs. Don't expect they will ask if I used my VHF in Canadian waters. BoatUS MMSI # will work in US waters, and most of my marine travel is on same. As George said, if I use the "red button" the DSC system will find where I am just as fast without the MMSI, and I believe I would get a call back shortly after the activation, however, without the MMSI # it would probably not start out with, "SleepyC, SleepyC, SleepyC this is US Coast Guard , Sector Seattle........"

I tend to agree with George, in that I like less government exploration into my personal business, however, I also think that they are spending time watching a lot more interesting folks than me out on the water.

In Roger's statement "E.g. your radio doesn't randomly transmit your MMSI number and others can access the database with your personal info in it." I think he meant can't instead of can. Roger?

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
hardee":140k6dl3 said:
As George said, if I use the "red button" the DSC system will find where I am just as fast without the MMSI, and I believe I would get a call back shortly after the activation, however, without the MMSI # it would probably not start out with, "SleepyC, SleepyC, SleepyC this is US Coast Guard , Sector Seattle........"
Click to expand...

The DSC functions will not work without an MMSI number entered in to the radio. Most importantly, the DSC Emergency / Distress function will not work. Note the big red warning in the following document:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg534/sarfactsinfo/MMSIpamphlet.pdf

My MMSI number is from BoatUS. If I would go in to Canadian waters, my DSC Emergency / Distress function would still work. The Canadian authorities would get my DSC distress call. However, since my MMSI is not in their database, they wouldn't get any information about me or my boat. But the WOULD get the distress call and GPS position.
 
Hi Rob,

That is an interesting statement. I wonder what part of the DSC transmit does not work. Is there something about putting the MMSI # into the radio itself that turns on the emergency transmit function?

I may be all wet here, but I don't think the USCG makes the radio's, however I do agree they may make the regulations that they work under.

I don't have my VHF manuals here but my understanding is that without the MMSI, the radio still transmits on the DSC broadcast channel, and broadcasts the lat and long from the affixed GPS, BUT there would not be an identifier, (MMSI broadcast) so USCG would not know who was broadcasting, but they would still know where.

From the reading I have done, the most common reason for DSC radio failure to retreve help has been the failure to have GPS input. Without that even with an MMSI number on board, they still will not know where the call is coming from (as rapidly -- there still is the triangulation factor that is active in some parts of the country, but it is slower and less accurate than having the lat and long come with the emergency call signal.)

I think what the references to in you link are the fact that without the MMSI, there is lost time and extra effort expended in locating the source of the emergency signal.

I have read that there is an acceptable way to test DSC capability of your VHF, but right now I don't have that info. It would be fun to chase this down further. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. If in fact it does not transmit at all, then I have some further programming to do, (other radios). I will have to get the VHF manuals out of the boat.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
Hi Harvey,

The link to the Coast Guard brochure was just the first link I found. The same information is in many places with more detail about it. My Standard Horizon vhf manual states that no DSC functions will work without the MMSI number.

The MMSI number is part of the DSC message specification. It must be there if they comply with the spec, which our radios do.

Here is a link to the DSC specification:

http://www.gmdss.com.au/ITU DSC tech spec.pdf

Section 12.4 states:

12.4 MMSI
DSC equipment should not transmit any DSC call until own ship’s MMSI allocated to the ship by the relevant administration has been configured and stored in the DSC equipment. Once stored, it should not be possible for the user to change the MMSI number without advise from the
manufacturer.

The DSC equipment should display own ship’s MMSI on start-up unless the MMSI has not been configured. If the MMSI has not been configured, the equipment will display a warning that the unit will not transmit any DSC calls until own ship’s MMSI is entered. The equipment should stay in
this state until the operator confirms he has read the display.

The MMSI should be readily displayed on the HMI when the DSC equipment is on.
Click to expand...

As far as DSC testing goes, it will be easy for you. I have my Standard Horizon GX2150 (fixed mount) and HX851 (handheld) programmed with my MMSI. You can test out the DSC between the radios. Just send a position request message to your MMSI number and the other radio will pick it up. I've done this test many times. DSC doesn't seem to care that the sending MMSI is the same as the one you are calling.
 
hardee":3ivpniqi said:
<stuff clipped>
In Roger's statement "E.g. your radio doesn't randomly transmit your MMSI number and others can access the database with your personal info in it." I think he meant can't instead of can. Roger?

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
Click to expand...
You are correct, Harvey. I meant to type "can't".
 
Interesting info off an angler forum. Along the lines of what I understood. Also just learning to copy stuff into posts.
quote.
"
HONDAM
06-09-2013, 10:08 PM
If you have bought a VHF radio since 1999 it will be DSC compatible and have a red distress button. That red button is part of a system called Rescue 21 that is monitored and maintained by the USCG.

First lets address a myth: The red distress button will not work if your VHF radio is not connected to a gps. This is false, straight out of the box your radio is capable of sending a distress signal to the USCG. Although this signal will only be able to give them a general area of the source.

Now that being said to take full advantage of your VHF radios DCS capabilities you need to complete 3 steps:

1. Connect your VHF to a GPS
2. obtain a unique MMSI by visiting the Boat US or Sea Tow websites.
3. Program your MMSI number into the VHF

Once you do that when you press the Distress button not only will the USCG know your exact location, they will also know the description of the vessel and the emergency contact information in case your incapacitated during the rescue.

Note: When connecting your VHF to your GPS, most likely the wire colors will NOT match up. You will need to connect the NMEA out of your GPS to the NMEA in of your VHF. You will need the owners manuals of both units to do it correctly.

Now some other useful features that DSC makes possible.

You can call another vessel using the unique MMSI number. Basically how it works is your dial in their number and after your input a number it will ask when channel you would like to talk on and it send a signal to that person and their VHF will ring like a phone. They can choose to either accept or deny a call and if they choose to accept their radio will automatically tune to the station you originally specified.

Also when talking to another DSC radio you request their position with the press of a button and with some radios even automatically set a cause with your GPS to that position.

Another thing to note is this digital signal is specified to have about a 20 mile distance with an antenna place 6ft off the water line. Therefore for us on the great lakes shouldn't have any problems sending and receiving signals."
Unquote.
Overall a great thing if one wants to do ALL steps to comply.

George :thup
 
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