Live Bait Well Design

[Hooks]

Hello Brats, I'm new to the board and to the boat....

I've searched fairly extensively for some time now, and thought I'd put my project out there. As I reach and install the final solution I'll organize and keep a file for future folks who have a need for a live bait well. My boat is an angler 16'

My plan is to install a new thru-hull fitting in the transom, location sump, adjacent to the bilge pump. Mount the pump sideways, and flex-pipe to the cockpit bow storage and mount a 13 ga. ultra tank, starboard side.

I would discharge immediately downhill through the starboard.

I like this location because the boat is stern heavy to begin with, the water weight would help balance the boat, and it keeps my fishing floor space open.

So here are my direct questions.

1. Does anyone have an example of their system I could see photos of?
2. Is there a better idea out there? And yes I definitely need a bait well, and recirc to keep my mac alive.
3. What is the appropriate process, considering the balsa core, for the thru-hull? I've read over-drill, fill, re-drill, Dow seal. I'm slightly concerned about over-drilling as it seems more vulnerable than drilling, epoxy sealing, dow seal the thru-fitting. Thoughts?
4. Anybody aware of a way I could also use the pump for washdown, and bilge too?
5. The cockpit has a raised floor, which has a void area beneath it for cockpit drainage. In the bow storage, the previous owner installed plywood. My plan is to screw the well cleats off to the plywood. Or install new marine ply....same idea though.
6. Any other key stuff I should be aware of? Loops in the line, backlfow, air lock, valves, better ideas, etc.

I absolutely love my boat and have done a couple 40+ mile trips out of santa cruz for bluefin recently. Saturday we had 5 on and came home empty handed. I plan on changing that this weekend.

Thanks for any help and advice you can provide.

PS - I am also looking for a local stainless steel fabricator for rocket launchers and etc. if anyone has a contact. I currently have Mark Reeves of Railmakers NW building my bow pulpit, and looking at my rocket launcher fab too. Great service so far.

Bob

 

[jbdba01]

I've been living on borrowed time on the Johnson Pump that I had. It was a plastic thru-hull fitting.

I just replaced it with a brass seacock which then leads to the pump. While there I had the outflow plastic fitting replaced as well.

I've know two people who have had issues with the plastic becoming brittle and snapping; you'll know when your bilge is firing up every couple min and you look in your bilge and water is pouring in. ZOINKS!! I believe in nautical terms this is called a catastrophic failure.

My pump is somewhat "overclocked" for the well size - the baitwell is not very big; I want to say 30 gallons. I started with 500 gallon per hour but bumped up to 750. Nothing will ruin a tarpon trip than dead bait.

I carry a spare cartridge and have had to swap out baitwell motors twice on the water over the last 10 years. With a seacock this is pretty easy. Without it thing are a hassle. When that pump comes out and all the water will pour in - I redneck engineered that by covering the intake below the waterline with a plastic sheeting/plug while swapping out the motor/cartridge.

If you overclock the pump you'll need another drain/outlet. Otherwise the baitwell will simply spill water on to your deck.

I think 1000 gph would have been to much as it would probably work the bait to hard.

I did have wire clips on the water that I could easily swap out, but after doing it twice I opted for simple wire nuts and some tape to get me through the day. Not the best idea, but it'll do.

Bottom line - brass fittings, double clamp hoses, seacock, overclock the pump (you should be able to slow the intake in the baitwell with the screw provided).

Install will look like this...

I also installed a highwater pickup - you can use a scupper, but I ended up using this. It was a 5 minute install and works like a champ. I was doing a fresh install I would get a brass pickup.

It looks like this when installed and goes over the intake. Not my boat but you get the idea.



I drilled a hole on the top of the pickup so it would let any air out when the boat comes to rest. That way you only pull in water into the pump.[/img]

I use a bucket to washdown the deck - I have some of these too...

 

[Hooks]

J, thanks for the info. Is a hull mount superior to a transom mount? Seems preferable, and in my 16 angler it's as easy.

How did you seal/reinforce the hole, if at all?

Yeah, a bucket is simple for wash down. I was thinking of just installing an added fitting and bypass for wash down. I haven't seen smaller pumps with dual outlet.

Jealous on the tarpon!

 

[rogerbum]

BRONZE not brass! Brass will corrode away and also fail catastrophically. It usually corrodes from the inside out so by the time you see it, it's too late! See this link for example

 

[thataway]

I would have a concern if you put a thru hull in the center of the hull, right in front of the outboard motor, of causing cavitation because of the turbulence of the scoop over the intake.

If you plan on using the bait well when under way, I would have a bronze scoop type of screen over the intake. I have this type of set up in my Caracal 18" cat, but since the boat is a cat, with a single motor, there is no turbulence issue . The bait well flows directly overboard. I don't remember the size of the pump, but I believe it was 750 gallons an hour.

As for the core--I would overdrill the hole in in inner layer of the hull glass, but not thru the outer glass--the hole saw will go very quickly into the balsa core. Then you drill with the proper size hole saw (after building solid) as you install the sea cock. Doing it this way, you might elect to have solid glass in the cut out. Alternatively, you can just drill the proper size hole all of the way thru, to start with, and then use a bent nail, Dremel tool bit or allen wrench to remove the core about 1/2" around the hole, paint the exposed core with dilute epoxy, and then when it is still tacky, fill the areas completely with thickened epoxy.

The wash down pump, is an entirely different type of pump--being high pressure (35 psi or more), and relatively low flow (3 gal per min). The bait pump is low pressure, high volume. You could "Y" the bait pump and the wash down off the same thru hull. But you have to be sure that only one pump is open to the thru hull at a time, or you will suck in air. I would have separate pumps for washdown, bilge and bait tank.

Another option is to have a stern pickup for the bait tank (and even for the wash down). I have seen a number of options, and in a small outboard boat these seem to make more sense than a thru hull /sea cock,
in an already crowded area.

 

[Hooks]

Bob, Great advice on the over drill technique. I like the finess of using the bottom layer of glass as a dam for the epoxy fill. It was also great advice not to position the thru-hull at the sump for potential cavitation.

I understand the idea of a transom mount external pump, but recall a main goal is to also address/not compound the stern and port weight imbalance issue with the addition of 120# water.

I am considering installing a custom fiberglass console to serve as the well, storage, and passenger swivel seat base in lieu of the current seat configuration.

Sounds like a lot but it's our little boat and a fun challenge to see how efficient the space can be.

More feedback and ideas really welcome and appreciated!

With regard to the stainless steel work, my pulpit comes from reeves Thursday and they're starting the rocket launcher project shortly.

I will start a photo album for progress.

 

[Bad Boy]

Do not install the bait well on the bow of a small boat. It is a rough ride in the front versus the transom area and it will cause your bait stress and collision to where the bait will not be useable to fish. Only large yachts can get away with a bow mounted bait tank because it doesn't have the pounding of a smaller boat.

The pump you need for your tank is a different type than one you want as a washdown pump so don't use one pump for double duty. Size your bait pump properly to capacity of your bait tank. Too big of a pump for your tank will exhaust your bait. Too small of a pump will kill your bait if you don't provide enough new sea water to the tank. The right size pump is one that will fill and come out of the overflow within 6-7 minutes. However, you can use a washdown pump to fill a bait tank in the event the bait pump malfunctions.

I would use a thru-hull with scupper for all your water intakes because it guarantees water feed to your pumps when you are underway, even at high speeds. Transom mount water feed is only good when the boat is at rest, not underway. Locate the thru-hull at either side of the outboard motor so as not to cause a disruption of water to the prop.

As for weight distribution, locate the bait tank and fuel tank/battery so that they balance out each other. The ideal situation is to add hydraulic trim tabs. Good luck.

 

[16Pounder]

Last year I made a trip to St. Pete, Fla. and needed a live bait well for my 16' angler. I bought a 14 gallon Keep Alive bait well from Cabellas. It has an aerator that is simply a small 12v bilge pump with a tube from the exterior of the tank feeding it air. It worked fine for me. I set it just aft of the passenger seat and strapped it to the seat post to prevent movement. It is wired to the electrical control panel and runs off the house battery I have installed in the forward cuddy. I placed a cushion on top of it to allow it to double as an extra seat. It's dark here in Ohio so I can't take a photo of it until tomorrow.

 

[jbdba01]

BRONZE not brass! Brass will corrode away and also fail catastrophically. It usually corrodes from the inside out so by the time you see it, it's too late! See this link for example

Oops - correct; bronze. ZOINKS!!! Heck I don't even know if a brass one exists.

3M 5200 on the sealing. Hole was already there so it was a swap out.

My transom mount highwater pickup works fine. Does the job for $15; I thought it would tear off, but everyone I know who uses them hasn't had an issue. I believe I saw somewhere that someone mounted it too far down and it tore off.

Understand that I only have a 17' boat - the bigger/more expensive boats I've seen have the bronze/hull highwater pickup. Mine's a cheap boat but fishes perfectly for where I am (Tampa).

If I were to execute a fresh install I would do all bronze and I would probably take it to a shop, but that's me.

 

[16Pounder]

bait well pictures are in my album

 

[rogerbum]

BRONZE not brass! Brass will corrode away and also fail catastrophically. It usually corrodes from the inside out so by the time you see it, it's too late! See this link for example

Oops - correct; bronze. ZOINKS!!! Heck I don't even know if a brass one exists.

<stuff clipped>

No worries. You probably can't find a brass through hull or a brass high speed water pickup but it's not that uncommon to find people who have put brass valves in place as the "seacock" or brass connectors in-line since both are readily available in local hardware stores and have the same NPT fittings. This is where people often get themselves in trouble and I think I read something about such things being one of the more common causes of boat sinkings.

 

[Hooks]

As a stopgap I installed a Rule 500 transom pump and mounted a bottles 50# vault on the swim step. The gamma vault has about 13 ga. Capacity.

Positives are the entire system was only $150, and it will keep 12-20 Mack alive for the day depending on size, which is plenty.

Downside it adds 100# to the starboard.

Long term I'm playing with the idea of a engine bracket, saddle tanks, relocating the batteries, and either incorporating the well into/on the bracket or building a custom integrated port well/seat bench.

Under separate thread I will inquire about brackets on cdory's.

I'll post photos of the well shortly. Thanks all for your feedback!