Well, here's my two cents, "Don't try to have it all." If you have a pension, an IRA, deferred compensation, a bunch of CD's and no debt, but no free health insurance, you're a very lucky guy. Buy the health insurance , live with one vehicle and a 16 footer. Then volunteer somewhere as long as you are able and maybe get a low paying parttime job you love. Join the Y. Work out as long as you're able, then sit in the hot tub. From this, my 81 year perch, I look back and am grateful for many things, not least of which are my genes. 8)
Live aboard - advice on how to pay for it
- Thread starter El and Bill
- Start date
Peter & Judy
New member
Thank you all for the interesting advise on retirement. I am not retired yet, but getting closer. We have a bison ranch in Alberta and are now just winding down our part of the business, by bringing in younger partner that will buy the herd over a few years, take over much of the work and eventually buy the ranch. Ranching, like most agricultural enterprises is not highly profitable, but if you live a frugal lifestyle, invest properly in you business and out of it, you will do alright in the end. Most of the profit from farming comes from equity growth in your land, herd and business. I have been self employed for most of my life, first as a professional photographer and then as a bison rancher. My wife was a teacher for 20 years years. So I have no pension and she has a small teachers pension. We will also be able to withdraw from our Canada Pension Plan at age 65. One of the biggest things for us will be determining how much money we will have to spend annually and how to make it last. In both our families there are many who have lived to their late 90's and even to over 100. But, there are others that did not live that long. So we need to consider both possibilities, enjoying ourselves early while we are still fit and healthy and the possibility that we might live to 100 and hopefully not in poverty. We are child free, so the burden of leaving an inheritance in not one that we bear.
Another line that I am reading in this thread and I hear often when I talk with my American relatives and friends is the high cost of health care. I feel very fortunate to not have that concern as a Canadian. Our pubic health care is funded by our government and is universal. The health care received by the corporate executive and bottle picker living under the bridge is the same. It is not perfect and far better than Fox News would leave you to believe. Just this week my 50 year old brother in law underwent emergency surgery for a twisted bowel, he came close to dying on the operating table, but the excellent care of our health care professionals ensured that this did not happen. He is very fortunate because if he was living in many other places in the world he might now be dead or bankrupt.
I am looking forward to meeting with some of the excellent C-Brats I have met in this forum in my retirement and maybe we will share a bottle of my overtaxed Canadian Whiskey that helps fund my 'free' healthcare.
I like to say that nothing is free in this world, because if you do not pay out of your right pocket, you will have to pay out of your left pocket.
Another line that I am reading in this thread and I hear often when I talk with my American relatives and friends is the high cost of health care. I feel very fortunate to not have that concern as a Canadian. Our pubic health care is funded by our government and is universal. The health care received by the corporate executive and bottle picker living under the bridge is the same. It is not perfect and far better than Fox News would leave you to believe. Just this week my 50 year old brother in law underwent emergency surgery for a twisted bowel, he came close to dying on the operating table, but the excellent care of our health care professionals ensured that this did not happen. He is very fortunate because if he was living in many other places in the world he might now be dead or bankrupt.
I am looking forward to meeting with some of the excellent C-Brats I have met in this forum in my retirement and maybe we will share a bottle of my overtaxed Canadian Whiskey that helps fund my 'free' healthcare.
I like to say that nothing is free in this world, because if you do not pay out of your right pocket, you will have to pay out of your left pocket.
colbysmith
Active member
Being careful to try and avoid the politics (I do enough opinionating on FaceBook!
) while so many Americans are concerned about health care in retirement, I'm curious how many arguing the issue are even looking at their own future? It becomes a lot more obvious as you near retirement, or are already there. Seems to me you've got a pretty good system. No system is without problems, but good health care is a necessity for life.Currently in the USA when you have Medicare you have a choice for what Medicare does not pay. This is the "Medigap". You have several choices:
-1.don't take anything, and pay yourself: (a bad choice if you have major expenses). Hospitals and most doctors will take what Medicare allows (which is more than what Medicare pays) as full payment. For example I had a cardiac ultrasound recently which the hospital billed $3500! Medicare allowed $350, paid about $315, and my Blue Cross/blue Shield supplement paid the remainder. If you didn't have the Medicare/insurance--the hospital could go after you for the full $3500!..
2. Buy a supplement which pays the gap--could pay it all or only part. You may be restricted in hospital or physician choice.
3: Then there are "Medicare Advantage plans"--these subjugate your Medicare to the company (HMO or PPO) who is carrying your plan. Medicare may give the plan $1000 a month for their part of the care. So the less the program spends on your the more money the company (HMO or PPO) makes. After you sign up for these plans, you may not have choice of doctors or hospitals--you are locked into what they provide until the next period when you can change providers or plans.
Why is it important to have free choice of facility and doctor? I use my self as an example. My cardiologist is Stanford trained, and highly skilled. But he realizes he and his group (about 30 cardiologists and cardiac surgeons has limits). I have unlimited choices with Blue Cross/Blue shield. (I could have gone with the basic PPO/HMO my ex-employer provides for "free", but there is $850 deducted from my pension to pay for this choice provided by Blue Cross) Thus when it is beyond what my cardiologist feels is available in Pensacola--I am referred out. For example, I had procedures at Cleveland Clinic, University of Alabama, Birmingham, and in a medical center in Torrance Calif. where he and I feel the very best medical care can be given. I believe in my case, this has extended my life by many years, and decreased morbidity.
I left a multi speciality group,( all board certified, all clinical faculty at UCLA,) when the group started buying other groups of non board certified physicians, became an HMO (and an early member of Health Net). This basically limited where patients could get medical care. I found that I was able to spend less time with each patient, and was not able to give the same standard of care.
So when you buy health insurance, including gap insurance, know what you are getting, and what it will cover.
-1.don't take anything, and pay yourself: (a bad choice if you have major expenses). Hospitals and most doctors will take what Medicare allows (which is more than what Medicare pays) as full payment. For example I had a cardiac ultrasound recently which the hospital billed $3500! Medicare allowed $350, paid about $315, and my Blue Cross/blue Shield supplement paid the remainder. If you didn't have the Medicare/insurance--the hospital could go after you for the full $3500!..
2. Buy a supplement which pays the gap--could pay it all or only part. You may be restricted in hospital or physician choice.
3: Then there are "Medicare Advantage plans"--these subjugate your Medicare to the company (HMO or PPO) who is carrying your plan. Medicare may give the plan $1000 a month for their part of the care. So the less the program spends on your the more money the company (HMO or PPO) makes. After you sign up for these plans, you may not have choice of doctors or hospitals--you are locked into what they provide until the next period when you can change providers or plans.
Why is it important to have free choice of facility and doctor? I use my self as an example. My cardiologist is Stanford trained, and highly skilled. But he realizes he and his group (about 30 cardiologists and cardiac surgeons has limits). I have unlimited choices with Blue Cross/Blue shield. (I could have gone with the basic PPO/HMO my ex-employer provides for "free", but there is $850 deducted from my pension to pay for this choice provided by Blue Cross) Thus when it is beyond what my cardiologist feels is available in Pensacola--I am referred out. For example, I had procedures at Cleveland Clinic, University of Alabama, Birmingham, and in a medical center in Torrance Calif. where he and I feel the very best medical care can be given. I believe in my case, this has extended my life by many years, and decreased morbidity.
I left a multi speciality group,( all board certified, all clinical faculty at UCLA,) when the group started buying other groups of non board certified physicians, became an HMO (and an early member of Health Net). This basically limited where patients could get medical care. I found that I was able to spend less time with each patient, and was not able to give the same standard of care.
So when you buy health insurance, including gap insurance, know what you are getting, and what it will cover.
Some of my observations:
Retiring early is a goal of many of us.
It is reasonable to frontload the more expensive hobbies for the earlier years of retirement. Trips, big boats, fancier condominium or housing
A lot of that is easier to do in your 60s and early 70s. Unfortunately I find that even while I am in excellent shape in late 70s medical issues for me and wife limit what we can do (and damn - last 3 summers of boating saw us unable to boat, business one year, medical issues the next two).
Strenuous vacations, backpacking in far off exotic lands, and the like get harder as you get older. I am glad I traveled a lot in my 60s and early 70s.
Consider saving those 'bucket list' things which are more local and require less energy for your later retirement. And maybe less expensive.
In really old age (not there yet), scale down housing, transportation, and hobbies, but be sure you figure out how to have fun so long as you are mobile.
I did my strenuous, far off, and more expensive things earlier. I will keep the boat IF I get to use it this summer, but meantime my wife and a do a lot of local things, and also got a small pied-à-terre in our nearest big city, and close to kids
Retiring early is a goal of many of us.
It is reasonable to frontload the more expensive hobbies for the earlier years of retirement. Trips, big boats, fancier condominium or housing
A lot of that is easier to do in your 60s and early 70s. Unfortunately I find that even while I am in excellent shape in late 70s medical issues for me and wife limit what we can do (and damn - last 3 summers of boating saw us unable to boat, business one year, medical issues the next two).
Strenuous vacations, backpacking in far off exotic lands, and the like get harder as you get older. I am glad I traveled a lot in my 60s and early 70s.
Consider saving those 'bucket list' things which are more local and require less energy for your later retirement. And maybe less expensive.
In really old age (not there yet), scale down housing, transportation, and hobbies, but be sure you figure out how to have fun so long as you are mobile.
I did my strenuous, far off, and more expensive things earlier. I will keep the boat IF I get to use it this summer, but meantime my wife and a do a lot of local things, and also got a small pied-à-terre in our nearest big city, and close to kids
colbysmith
Active member
Bob, thanks for the Medicare information. Needless to say, this stuff is coming much closer into view now, and I for one wouldn't mind seeing an entire thread dedicated to the subject. That and Social Security. But I know there are plenty of other resources available, than a boating forum to research. And seminars on the subject that I will probably start signing up for in the not to far future! :wink: Colby
Colby: like you I have some concerns about the tenuous tie-in to boating with this thread. However I love having the discussion with folks who are like-minded in their desire to pursue physical adventure such as cruising or fishing, (or carry-on travel, etc.), are socially and service oriented, and whose interest in C-Dories indicates at least a modicum of practicality. What a great source of functional wisdom and novel ideas here! As mentioned, many of our desired activities need to be done sooner rather than later d/t the future physical constraints which eventually affect all of us. It's very encouraging to hear real examples of how this retirement thing can be done, and done well, and not put off until it's "safe" to do. I remember years ago reading Bill and El's Halcyon blog and dreaming my wife and I could do a version of what they did. Ours will look a bit different but they definitely helped plant the seeds of freedom in my subconscious mind. We are currently in the process of deciding which material things we'd like to hold on to, and which need to go. I know that as I get older, my time freedom becomes relatively more important than new toys, fancy homes, etc.
Best, Mike
Best, Mike
I will 'third' what Bob said.
I prefer standard Medicare along with my generous retirement supplement plan. I also use VA which I have found excellent for the most part, although the system is stressed from the huge number of more recent influx of patients. I like doing some of my own research and with a couple sessions of cancer, diabetes, and keeping my blood pressure low, and ongoing sports injuries see a variety of providers.
I think I receive great care despite bouncing around seeing several providers. With regular Medicare you do not need a referral to go to specialists. Oddly enough those choosing that route do not use anymore specialist care than those in the Advantage plans without that flexibility.
My wife prefers Kaiser (not nearly as good as it was several years ago), because she prefers having one system do all of her care.
By the way if you are eligible for VA benefits I recommend you consider applying. The various veteran organizations do a good job providing assistance. It is generally complicated, and missteps can cause you to be permanently rejected. Use the volunteers. I am not a counselor, but volunteer once a week for several hours.
I prefer standard Medicare along with my generous retirement supplement plan. I also use VA which I have found excellent for the most part, although the system is stressed from the huge number of more recent influx of patients. I like doing some of my own research and with a couple sessions of cancer, diabetes, and keeping my blood pressure low, and ongoing sports injuries see a variety of providers.
I think I receive great care despite bouncing around seeing several providers. With regular Medicare you do not need a referral to go to specialists. Oddly enough those choosing that route do not use anymore specialist care than those in the Advantage plans without that flexibility.
My wife prefers Kaiser (not nearly as good as it was several years ago), because she prefers having one system do all of her care.
By the way if you are eligible for VA benefits I recommend you consider applying. The various veteran organizations do a good job providing assistance. It is generally complicated, and missteps can cause you to be permanently rejected. Use the volunteers. I am not a counselor, but volunteer once a week for several hours.
Robb,
Good points about the VA. I have worked in several VA hospitals and clinics. Many friends use the VA. If you live near one of the major VA centers or hospitals, the care can be excellent. It is a system, you need to know how to work. If you have service connected disability, it is much easier to get good benefits. Generally, service connected disability is given at the time of discharge (my MOS was a Medical Board Officer). I am aware of disability given after discharge, if a condition occurred during active duty. (there are various time and condition limits).
One close friends depends on his VA benefits entirely for medical care--and is able to get local referrals when our local large VA clinic facility is impacted, and the wait is extraordinary.
Some get their medications at the VA because they are free or low co-pay. You must be seen by a VA physician, who writes the RX. The formulary is somewhat limited, but exceptions may be made.
I'll make a short comment on Kaiser--I had several friends who have worked there (including my son in law's father, who works part time), family members who were patients, including my aunt, who I am actively involved with her care. If you know the system, you can get excellent care. It has a lot of similarities to the VA system. I have been impressed with care given during acute illness.
Good points about the VA. I have worked in several VA hospitals and clinics. Many friends use the VA. If you live near one of the major VA centers or hospitals, the care can be excellent. It is a system, you need to know how to work. If you have service connected disability, it is much easier to get good benefits. Generally, service connected disability is given at the time of discharge (my MOS was a Medical Board Officer). I am aware of disability given after discharge, if a condition occurred during active duty. (there are various time and condition limits).
One close friends depends on his VA benefits entirely for medical care--and is able to get local referrals when our local large VA clinic facility is impacted, and the wait is extraordinary.
Some get their medications at the VA because they are free or low co-pay. You must be seen by a VA physician, who writes the RX. The formulary is somewhat limited, but exceptions may be made.
I'll make a short comment on Kaiser--I had several friends who have worked there (including my son in law's father, who works part time), family members who were patients, including my aunt, who I am actively involved with her care. If you know the system, you can get excellent care. It has a lot of similarities to the VA system. I have been impressed with care given during acute illness.
colbysmith
Active member
Another thought has come up a few times. "Know the system". Just before I retired from flying in the airlines, and for a short time after, I took a course to receive a Certificate in Patient Advocacy. Thought I might retire into that field, but for various reasons, have not gone any further pursuing that field. One of the things I learned from that course, and from my own personal experience, is that the best medical care we can receive, also comes from our own active participation in it. In other words, you can be your own best advocate. However, when crap really hits the fan, your spouse, or another family member, or entrusted friend can become your own best advocate. Take the time to understand your billing statements and what your doctors are telling you. If you disagree with something on your bill, don't just ignore it as something insurance will pay, but question it and have it corrected if wrong! If you question something your doctor says or tests they give, ask! Respect their experience and education, but also trust your body and feelings! Make use of the many organizations available in various medical fields. (Ie, American Cancer Society, etc.) Then there are the "professional patient advocates" or ombudsmen that can help one navigate the system as well. Sure all this stuff takes some time. But I personally feel in the end it is worth it. After all, it is YOUR health.
And with that same attitude, my next quest is to learn more about Medicare and the VA in the next several years. While I'm not retired from the military, I did spend some time in the USCG before deciding to get out and fly commercially, taking a Honorable Discharge.
And with that same attitude, my next quest is to learn more about Medicare and the VA in the next several years. While I'm not retired from the military, I did spend some time in the USCG before deciding to get out and fly commercially, taking a Honorable Discharge.
I do love the VA, although I now get most of my care outside through Medicare and supplement plan F which covers all the deductible and coinsurance. The VA provides me with high cost items like glasses and hearing aids, both free. . I also use the VA pharmacy for a high cost drug that on the outside is over $500 for a three months supply. At the VA it is $24. Having 20% service connected disability I also get a monthly VA pension of about $260. If you're 30 % or more disabled they also give you transportation money to and from care. At 100% you also get dental care. Sorry to get in the weeds about this. Frankly, it's easy once you jump into the system.
A little expansion on the patient advocate. Agree that every one needs one especially if hosp italized or seriously ill. Also if there is any degree of dementia. I serve in this capacity currently for several individuals. It is very important for every patient to fully understand everything a physician, PA or Nurse Practitioner says. Often the advocate can approach the subject from a subjective standpoint and explain it better than the medical professional, or ask the questions to clarify what was said.
If a physician objects to a patient advocate--that is a warning sign.
Going back to investments, and being able to afford a good life style: I have closes friends who have achieved these goals: a teacher, a fireman, a lawyer who taught, and an HVAC engineer. The common thread for all of these was working in some way beyond the primary job. The teacher had a sail loft, where he worked evenings (and allowed him to write off, the boats he built as platforms for the experimental sails. He also bought real estate. The Fireman had side businesses on the shifts off and took courses at the JC for diesel engine, marine transmission and outboard repairs. The lawyer worked extra hours, worked hard on boat restoration. The HVAC engineer, started buying cheap real estate with lawn cutting money when in high school--he put every extra cent into real estate, and then plowed all of the profits back into more real estate. He now owns thousands of apartments. The common thread: living frugally, working many extra hours, not afraid of hard physical work, and sacrificed immediate gratification for an early retirement with a good life style.
If a physician objects to a patient advocate--that is a warning sign.
Going back to investments, and being able to afford a good life style: I have closes friends who have achieved these goals: a teacher, a fireman, a lawyer who taught, and an HVAC engineer. The common thread for all of these was working in some way beyond the primary job. The teacher had a sail loft, where he worked evenings (and allowed him to write off, the boats he built as platforms for the experimental sails. He also bought real estate. The Fireman had side businesses on the shifts off and took courses at the JC for diesel engine, marine transmission and outboard repairs. The lawyer worked extra hours, worked hard on boat restoration. The HVAC engineer, started buying cheap real estate with lawn cutting money when in high school--he put every extra cent into real estate, and then plowed all of the profits back into more real estate. He now owns thousands of apartments. The common thread: living frugally, working many extra hours, not afraid of hard physical work, and sacrificed immediate gratification for an early retirement with a good life style.
gulfcoast john
New member
Although we could start collecting Social Security at age 62, we'll get an additional 8% per year by waiting until 66+ 7 months, even more by waiting until age 70. Just try to find another US gov't guaranteed 8% per year on your money...not with Treasury bonds! Even so, over 50% start their SS withdrawals as soon as they can at 62. I only mention this because no one else has. It's best to know about and think about these options years in advance.
May you live long and prosper!
John
May you live long and prosper!
John
The point where you get "full" social security depends on your age (when you were born). Also if you take "early" SS benefits before full retirement age, there will be a deduction for "earned income".
Then there a friend who worked until he was 88...and didn't take Social Security or Medicare....How much of this "enhanced" social security income will he really get?--what is his life expectancy? (According to SS a little less than 5 years)...(According to the same table at age 112 your life expectancy is 1 year...)
I do agree with John, that it is wise to have an increasing income as you age. Some say your "needs are less". Actually they may be more because of need for assistance and nursing care.
Then there a friend who worked until he was 88...and didn't take Social Security or Medicare....How much of this "enhanced" social security income will he really get?--what is his life expectancy? (According to SS a little less than 5 years)...(According to the same table at age 112 your life expectancy is 1 year...)
I do agree with John, that it is wise to have an increasing income as you age. Some say your "needs are less". Actually they may be more because of need for assistance and nursing care.
I considered waiting until I was 70 to start drawing, but didn’t take long to figure it was best to start drawing at 62 for me. The 8 percent increase per year if you wait to draw isn’t money in the bank. You have to live till 70 to collect the additional & not draw in my case $163,000 during those 8 years before 70, so I would have had to live & draw after starting at age 70 an additional 9.4 years or almost to 80 years old to break even with my retiring at 62. The government isn’t giving the additional 8 % out of generosity as on the average it pretty much evens out among all those who draw at 62 or wait to 70. In my case I didn’t want to work at all after reaching 62, so I wasn’t concerned about additional income causing a further reduction in social security, but for those that do it could be very beneficial to wait until they do retire or at least know how much they can earn before it reduces their SS income. I believe after 70 there isn’t a reduction no matter the income.
My cousin who just retired at age 70, after working 50 years for PG&E in Calif at a job he enjoyed & didn’t have much he wanted to do after retirement, chose to wait until 70 to start social security & it was a good plan for him to do so. I had much, I wanted to do when retiring at 62, but with out the additional money from SS it would been difficult to do, so for me drawing it at 62 instead of waiting to 70 was the best option.
Jay
My cousin who just retired at age 70, after working 50 years for PG&E in Calif at a job he enjoyed & didn’t have much he wanted to do after retirement, chose to wait until 70 to start social security & it was a good plan for him to do so. I had much, I wanted to do when retiring at 62, but with out the additional money from SS it would been difficult to do, so for me drawing it at 62 instead of waiting to 70 was the best option.
Jay
colbysmith
Active member
I know there are lots of thoughts on when to take it. One can make all kinds of plans and bank on how long they think they'll live. But in the end, it also kind of comes down to, what do you need and when do you need it. I really need to sit down and start taking a serious look at what my plans and needs will be. I still have a bit over a year and a half before I turn 62, and don't know what my plans will be. I had to make a decision with my pension on how I wanted to take it. Because I retired early, in good health, we decided to take a higher amount, but then it does not continue to my wife when I die. (I could have taken a smaller payment, allowing my wife to continue getting my pension when I died. If I was older or in poor health, that would probably have been a better option...) Everyone has their own set of circumstances to consider. With SS there also use to be some factors with signing up early, but then holding off on receiving payments. I don't remember the exact situation, but that recently changed, going away.
Colby: My wife will also take her pension at 100% with no survivorship. Probably sometime next year at 57YO. The math favors us purchasing 1-10yr. and 1-20yr. level term life insurance policies on her, rather than granting survivorship rights, to protect me. She will also take SS early; I may wait a bit as a further hedge.
Jay: I totally agree, assuming the individual has other sources of retirement income. The 8% "benefit" of waiting is not always realized, since benefits end with the recipient's life, unlike IRA's, real estate, and the like. Doing so can facilitate travel and other activities which are best enjoyed earlier vs later. The clear exception would be cases where SS will be the primary source of retirement income, or where the absolute monthly benefit isn't enough to meet one's retirement budget needs.
Bob: I read Proverbs daily in the morning, and I feel like you gave me a bookend gem for this evening:
We plan to take SS early to bridge the health insurance gap between 62YO and 65YO, when we receive Medicare coverage. Doing so will allow us to leave our retirement accounts alone go grow in early retirement, particularly if the market is down at that time. Unlike SS and pensions, retirement accounts survive the owner.
So good to take in all this wonderful advice and wise perspective!
Mike
Jay: I totally agree, assuming the individual has other sources of retirement income. The 8% "benefit" of waiting is not always realized, since benefits end with the recipient's life, unlike IRA's, real estate, and the like. Doing so can facilitate travel and other activities which are best enjoyed earlier vs later. The clear exception would be cases where SS will be the primary source of retirement income, or where the absolute monthly benefit isn't enough to meet one's retirement budget needs.
Bob: I read Proverbs daily in the morning, and I feel like you gave me a bookend gem for this evening:
. This M.O. has given my wife and I many fortunate choices which we have taught and modeled it to our 3 children, who now are through college debt-free. A few blisters on the hands never killed anyone!
We plan to take SS early to bridge the health insurance gap between 62YO and 65YO, when we receive Medicare coverage. Doing so will allow us to leave our retirement accounts alone go grow in early retirement, particularly if the market is down at that time. Unlike SS and pensions, retirement accounts survive the owner.
So good to take in all this wonderful advice and wise perspective!
Mike
WOW, this thread (though it did take a bit of a left turn), has been worth the price of membership here :lol: and then some :thup :thup
Great info, not just for living aboard, but for living in peace.
Main point: Plan ahead.
Have to run now but will come back.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
Great info, not just for living aboard, but for living in peace.
Main point: Plan ahead.
Have to run now but will come back.
Harvey
SleepyC :moon