Lithium Batteries - locking lazaretts

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Hello Cbrats,

I am upgrading my existing Optima series 24 batteries to series 24 Tracker Lithium batteries. This is a significant upgrade as it will reduce stern weight and provide a longer life battery with 5,000 recharge cycles. The batteries may outlast the boat!

The cost of the lithium batteries was an arm and a leg. I would prefer to install the lithiums in the port and starboard lazarettes to avoid re-wiring the boat. The issue is my lazarette covers do not lock and I am concerned about theft. I purchased new lazarette covers and am hoping to find a locking mechanism for the new covers. I'm not sure how to post a picture of my existing lazarette covers to this post. I will upload to album.

Option #2 is to remove the water tank in the cabin and re-wire/move the battery compartment, charger, fuses under the rear seat inside the cabin. I would lose the water tank but gain space in the lazarettes.

Locking lazarette covers seem like the easiest option.

Thoughts?

Mark
 
Don't think about traditional Latches. A Stainless Steel cable which is secured from the lid of the compartment, leads down to the bottom (or thru the side), and to a point where a padlock would secure thru both ends and perhaps several eyebolts.

Yes, if the thief has cable cutters he could cut the cable. But anything you put on the boat could be "defeated" fairly easily. You want to:
1.) make your boat less attractive than the next one.
2.) make it harder to get into
3.) Not advertise that you have Li batteries.

In the same vein of thought, putting in a simple security system is very easy. "Trip" wires (monofilament) to a piece of plastic which is keeping a normally closed micro switch open. The microswitch current closes a relay, which sets off a 120 dB siren or horn and strobe light. So if you want double security, then put the security cable and the alarm system in place.

Keep in mind that boats are extremely easy to break into.

I have broken into a few boats in my life. Most commonly ones that dragging dragging anchor (including during hurricanes) or signs of taking on water and in danger of sinking. (It also helps to know how to hot wire and start any
marine engine without a key. (Also easy to do.)

There are several ways to "lock" a battery in the lazarette I would used stock bar, 1 x 3/16, and bent to follow the case on the bottom, with a "hinge" point on one side of the battery, and padlock on the other side. Also just a SS cable around the battery, with the lock under the Lazarette.

Here is another trick--use a bolt which uses an unusual "key head"==could be "Torx" fitting or metric Allen head, I used just this to keep my Honda EU2200 "safe". I used longer bolts, and a speciality head to hold the generator on its bracket over the splash well.
 
Very helpful information, thank you thataway.

Question about lithium batteries. I am getting conflicting information regarding the use of a lithium battery as a start battery. Y-Marine and Northwest Marine Industries said you cannot use lithium as a start battery. NMI said it could burn the alternator in the boat engine.

I purchased two Tracker lithium batteries (TLI60 12.8V 60 amp) from Cabelas and the salesperson stated his friend uses them without issue (he may be using them for accesories only) I called tech support at Bass Pro (Tracker Lithium is bass pro brand) and he did confirm that they do make a lithium battery that is specifically designed as a starting battery.

Lithium batteries are fairly new and it hasn't been easy getting accurate info. I would like to run a lithium start battery and lithium house battery in parrallel.

Will continue my quest for answers.

Mark
 
There is some thought on not making your boat too theft proof. If they want something bad enough they are going to get it. But perhaps you can limit the collateral damage. The typical lazerette covers used on C-Dorys are not that strong. Making it lock will only slow thieves down a little.

That's what insurance is for.

Plenty of examples off boats that had the OBs firmly secured to prevent theft. All the thieves did was take a sawsall to the transom.
 
Jody makes good points (as always). I had no problems with the "alternator" of the 150 Honda keeping up with the charging needs of the "house" and "start" FLA batteries, plus the 30 amp battery to battery charger from the group 24
FLA starting battery to the 200 amp hour battery bank (Battle Born Batteries) used for the inverter (microwave and induction stove), plus freezer and refrigerator. I suspect that alternator was putting out full 44 amps during the days it was running all day in the2000 to 4000 RPM range.

There are several ways of getting around the overheating, especially in RV's where it is not uncommon to have 200 amp alternators. In that case the temp of the alternator is monitored, or there is a limit of run time--for example 15 minutes out of the hour.

My understanding the problem for engine starting was that the BMS (Battery Management System) would shut the battery down with the 300 or so amp draw of starting, unless it were designed for that load. There are several "marine start" Li batteries designed for this purpose. I did a lot of reading before I put purchased the first 100 amp hour battery and designed the rest of that part of the electrical system--then added the second battery (which had to be matched with the first battery.)

The OP's boat is a 2006, and unless repowered, it it has the original Honda 90, it only puts out 17 amps (or less) to charge batteries.

Be cautious of technicians of big box type of stores. Sometimes they don't have the specific knowledge you are seeking. Looking up the "Tracker LiFePO4 start battery", it is 100 amp hours. I didn't see much about it on line, but didn't take the time to do a lot of research. You may find better information on some of the bass boat forums, since the Li battery seems to be used for start as well as trolling motors by the bass fishermen.

Will Prowse does very good analysis of Li batteries. I don't see that he as analyzed the Tracker start battery. The various good battery manufactures have engineers on staff. That is why I went with Battle Born. When the resident engineer could not answer a specific question, he referred me to the engineer at Victron's phone number so I could directly discuss the issue with him.

Because of the higher power and capacity to rapidly discharge, it is important to monitor the temperature of these batteries, as well as put fuses near any battery or charging source.

Some of the "Starting" capable LiFePO4 batteries are putting super capacitors after the BMS in the case, so the super capacitors are actually giving the initial burst of the starting load. Oherwise the batteries function "normally".

In other words, the LiFePO4 are still not fully "drop in, plug and play"--yet. The resting voltage is higher, the charging profile is different.
 
I just received these Perko locks, which should fit the existing lazarette latches on my 1990 C-22:

https://shop.hamiltonmarine.com/product ... 26484.html

If you special order them through Hamilton Marine, they can be keyed the same (unfortunately not the same as the Perko latch on the cabin door...).

Anyway, I believe this will solve the problem. I have not installed them yet. I'm waiting for winter to end in Montana...
 
Aside from the information already posted on why you shouldn't use LiFePo4 batteries for starting batteries is that some BMS has the ability to turn the battery off when they're full charged. This could be the equivalent of shutting off your main battery switch while the engines are running.

They are amazing though. When I did my trolling motor install, I needed 3. My camper was about due for an upgrade as well so I just bought two more. I'll tell you a secret on lithium battery purchasing: Buy from Alibaba. There is currently no such thing as an American made battery (I'm all for made in the USA but just doesn't work in this case). There are several companies who claim they make them, but they just buy foreign parts and assemble them here. Anyway, I got 5 65 amp hour batteries for $1,000, plus $200 shipping. COVID was in full swing and Chinese New Year was happening when I bough mine so shipping was about 45 days but I planned way ahead and was ok with that.

I wish they could be used for starting batteries though. My current battery set up weighs nearly 180 lbs. Three lithiums would weigh 21 lbs. That's right. 7 lbs each and have 2x as much useable power as a Group 27.
 
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