Let's play what's in this fuel sample?
- Thread starter ccflyer
- Start date
The most logical answer would be the simplest, which would make it water with rust in it, which would also explain why the engine ran rough.
But this just might be your Lucky Weekend, and you've got some portion of 50 gallons of gas that's actually Jack Daniels, Jameson's, or even Dranbuie for your Labor Day Celebration. :lol:
Is it clear amber, cloudy, or even flakey? I can't tell from the photo.
Joe. :teeth :thup
But this just might be your Lucky Weekend, and you've got some portion of 50 gallons of gas that's actually Jack Daniels, Jameson's, or even Dranbuie for your Labor Day Celebration. :lol:
Is it clear amber, cloudy, or even flakey? I can't tell from the photo.
Joe. :teeth :thup
Joe: the amber liquid is clear with dark specs suspended in it.
Milehog: I'm using that type filter unfortunately, it's tucked away
in the starboard lazarette and the clear bowl is pretty much obscured from
sight.
I'm changing the filter today and see if there's any improvement.
Question: is there an easier way to mitigate the problem than removing the tank and cleaning it out?
Milehog: I'm using that type filter unfortunately, it's tucked away
in the starboard lazarette and the clear bowl is pretty much obscured from
sight.
I'm changing the filter today and see if there's any improvement.
Question: is there an easier way to mitigate the problem than removing the tank and cleaning it out?
It is not a particularly good idea to have a fuel filter in a compartment like a lazarette for the difficulty is seeing leaks, draining it, or changing filters. I have been told that ABYC would strongly frown on such an installation on a gas fueled boat. When I got my boat the filter had been installed on the inside of the starboard lazarette on the part that forms the side of the motor well. It was a simple task to remove the filter housing and rebolt it using the same holes so the filter housing was in the motor well. I did have to move the hose barb to the other side of the filter housing but that was simple as well. It makes everything a lot easier and one can conveniently check the filter bowl to see what is going on.
Jim
Jim
As soon as I saw your subject line I knew what the picture was going to look like. I had the exact same sample, and lots of it, last year. The clear stuff ( I thought it was water at first) stopped my motors more than once and took a lot of draining and coaxing to get running again. My gas did have ethanol so I figured it was a separation problem... seeing how your gas was ethanol free makes me wonder. I siphoned quarts of it before I ended up removing both tanks and dumping them just to be safe. No problem since I quit buying ethanol gas. I left one sample sit for awhile and it became all one color again (light orange) after a long rest. Is there a chemical reaction going on in these roto-cast tanks? Sorry, more questions than answers.
Phil-
Thanks for the information about the amber clear liquid on the bottom with the dark specs suspended in it (if I have it right).
Gas vapors, Av or automobile, with or without ethanol, expand and contract with the daily temperature cycle, and pull in new moisture when the vapor contracts.
This cycle brings in fresh moisture containing air from the vents, which eventually condenses on the walls of the cooling gas tank, then runs down the walls to the bottom and collects and becomes trapped there, adding daily to the accumulation of water at the bottom of the tank.
Eventually this water increases in volume until it is finally reaches the height of the fuel pick up tube coming down from the top of the tank.
At that point, it shows up in your Racor filter bowl, then a little later when that's full, it shows up as sputtering performance in your engine, particularly noticeable at low speeds.
The color can be variable, as various interactions with the tank material components and gasoline additives occur. I've had the amber stuff too, and think it's the most common color. Dark spots may be rust, or any non-soluible product that is created along the way.
Another common problem relating to this is when splash water, while underway, is taken in at the fuel vent fittings. This is, of course, heightened by rough boating conditions. It's been documented here several times on various threads, and becomes especially prone to develop when the little screened ports on the vents are improperly installed facing forward rather than aft.
The best cure is a two part solution: 1.) Turn the vent ports aft, and either 2a.) add an upward loop in the vent tube above the vent to help prevent water from getting down into the tank, or 2b.) replace the vent assembly with a more sophisticated one designed to trap and repel water to prevent it's inward migration.
A search of the threads of fuel systems in the Forums Library will reveal these discussion threads, I'm sure.
My Sunday Morning Two Cents for Free.........
Joe. :teeth :thup
Thanks for the information about the amber clear liquid on the bottom with the dark specs suspended in it (if I have it right).
Gas vapors, Av or automobile, with or without ethanol, expand and contract with the daily temperature cycle, and pull in new moisture when the vapor contracts.
This cycle brings in fresh moisture containing air from the vents, which eventually condenses on the walls of the cooling gas tank, then runs down the walls to the bottom and collects and becomes trapped there, adding daily to the accumulation of water at the bottom of the tank.
Eventually this water increases in volume until it is finally reaches the height of the fuel pick up tube coming down from the top of the tank.
At that point, it shows up in your Racor filter bowl, then a little later when that's full, it shows up as sputtering performance in your engine, particularly noticeable at low speeds.
The color can be variable, as various interactions with the tank material components and gasoline additives occur. I've had the amber stuff too, and think it's the most common color. Dark spots may be rust, or any non-soluible product that is created along the way.
Another common problem relating to this is when splash water, while underway, is taken in at the fuel vent fittings. This is, of course, heightened by rough boating conditions. It's been documented here several times on various threads, and becomes especially prone to develop when the little screened ports on the vents are improperly installed facing forward rather than aft.
The best cure is a two part solution: 1.) Turn the vent ports aft, and either 2a.) add an upward loop in the vent tube above the vent to help prevent water from getting down into the tank, or 2b.) replace the vent assembly with a more sophisticated one designed to trap and repel water to prevent it's inward migration.
A search of the threads of fuel systems in the Forums Library will reveal these discussion threads, I'm sure.
My Sunday Morning Two Cents for Free.........
Joe. :teeth :thup
Westfield 11
New member
Be aware that the LL in 100LL stands for low lead, however it means low lead compared to standard aviation gasoline. Thus 100LL has more lead in it it than the high octane racing fuel sold back in the good old days at places like Sunoco (remember Sunoco 260!!?) this will really mess up a new EFI engine in no time at all. What ever you do, don't troll or idle for long periods of time as the lower combustion temps will make things worse.
I put in a new filter and ran it around for .9 hr. Immediate improvement so I went back an bought another filter to have as an onboard backup. I'll try to get through the rest of the season and address taking out and cleaning the tanks over the winter.
Marc: I'm sure your right but let me add I didn't start running 100LL before I called Honda tech support several years ago in response to all the ethanol issues in the marine news. I was told at that time the engine, a 2003, should run fine on 100LL with no mention of the warranty or sensors. Indeed, its been fine until this brown stuff turned up in the fuel.
Fairbro: the clear stuff (with the blue tint) on the top is the gas, the brown crud is on the bottom where you might expect to find water.
Joe: thanks for the tip on the vents. I'm taking the boat to "Obama Vacationland" (Marthas Vineyard) Tuesday and will address the vents before I leave.
mcc272: the boat came with the filter installed in the lazarette by Cutter Marine who was the C-Dory dealer. No batteries in there. You make a good point - I'll add this to the "off season project list"
At some point I'll be able to ask the Texaco distributor. If he has the answer I'll post it.
Thanks to all
Marc: I'm sure your right but let me add I didn't start running 100LL before I called Honda tech support several years ago in response to all the ethanol issues in the marine news. I was told at that time the engine, a 2003, should run fine on 100LL with no mention of the warranty or sensors. Indeed, its been fine until this brown stuff turned up in the fuel.
Fairbro: the clear stuff (with the blue tint) on the top is the gas, the brown crud is on the bottom where you might expect to find water.
Joe: thanks for the tip on the vents. I'm taking the boat to "Obama Vacationland" (Marthas Vineyard) Tuesday and will address the vents before I leave.
mcc272: the boat came with the filter installed in the lazarette by Cutter Marine who was the C-Dory dealer. No batteries in there. You make a good point - I'll add this to the "off season project list"
At some point I'll be able to ask the Texaco distributor. If he has the answer I'll post it.
Thanks to all
Phil --
I was betting by your location and the location of the fuel filter that you had a Cutter Marine boat. That is where mine was initially rigged as well. The fix is easy and makes dealing with the filter, including observing and draining it a whole lot easier. If Cutter did it the same as mine, you should be able to use the same bolt holes.
Jim
I was betting by your location and the location of the fuel filter that you had a Cutter Marine boat. That is where mine was initially rigged as well. The fix is easy and makes dealing with the filter, including observing and draining it a whole lot easier. If Cutter did it the same as mine, you should be able to use the same bolt holes.
Jim
To answer the question about ridding the tanks of the water, do fuel polishing yourself. I use a separate racor filter and hook it up to pull fuel from before the racor, and put it back into the tank before the fill. The pump is a standard Walbro fuel pump which you can obtain at any auto supply shop. Total set up cost about $100 (some wholesale parts). I use a 10 micron filter. The 2 micron filter is too "fine" for fuel which has contamination, and will plug the racor too rapidly. You want to recirculate the entire fuel in the tank. If you have two tanks, run the fuel from one tank into the other, then run all of the fuel back to the first tank and finally balance the tanks's amount of fuel by pumping back into the last emptied tank.
Also I would check the filter on the Honda engine. It has some fuel water separation properties, and if you were getting "sputtering" on the engine, there is a good chance that this filter needs cleaning.
Also I would check the filter on the Honda engine. It has some fuel water separation properties, and if you were getting "sputtering" on the engine, there is a good chance that this filter needs cleaning.
Fairbro":1g6k6c8n said:
Fairbro-
I believe we are currently thinking that-
The clear bluish liquid on top is the Aviation Gas, as Phil stated, and-
The amber liquid clouded with dark specs is on the bottom and is presumed to be water condensate from the daily heating cycle affecting the gas tank, or water intruded through incorrectly oriented vents, at least until further testing takes place. The amber color may be due to rust, or to some other chemical reaction/combination.
At least tht was my take on it!
Joe. :teeth :thup