Lessons from a Sailboat Tragedy

Grandpa was an old Navy man. He taught me two things about being at sea.

1. The sea is a lousy teacher. First you get the test then, maybe, you learn the lesson.

2. The sea simply waits for the innocent. But it actually stalks the unprepared, the careless and the arrogant.

Aye.
 
Regarding rescuees having to pay for their own rescues, one of the arguments against that (though some may find this agood thing)! Is that people who need rescue in genuine life risk siuations,will not call for help because they can't afford it,etc. etc. lives lost,etc.etc. In Colorado where I was associated with mountain SAR, all hunting and fishing license fees included .25cents that went into a statewide SAR fund, that covered SAR costs. Many people bought fishing licenses just to get that coverage. If you didn't have a license and the SAR was because of stupidity/illegal activities you might get a bill.
 
People who experience true accidents shouldn't have to worry about the cost of rescue.

However, people who do bone-head things and go out with the expectation that if things go south "Mommy" will save them should be made to pay for their stupidity.

Not only is there likely to be property damage, but they also can be putting the lives of their rescuers at high risk.
 
Regarding rescues, you may/may not be aware that a "Mayday" call could result in a USCG, or other authorized, removal of "person(s)" from a life/death situation at sea leaving your vessel abandoned making it and its contents subject to salvage laws. Then one finds him/herself faced with not only possible financial fees for the rescue of persons but also "repurchasing" your own vessel from the salvage operator.

Any experience out there with this in US or Canadian waters and how do the two countries handle it?

Aye.
 
Foggy":2vxpmj34 said:
Regarding rescues, you may/may not be aware that a "Mayday" call could result in a USCG, or other authorized, removal of "person(s)" from a life/death situation at sea leaving your vessel abandoned making it and its contents subject to salvage laws. Then one finds him/herself faced with not only possible financial fees for the rescue of persons but also "repurchasing" your own vessel from the salvage operator.

Any experience out there with this in US or Canadian waters and how do the two countries handle it?

Aye.
Click to expand...

Your boat insurance probably enters in here a some point.
Have you read your policy?

Aye.
 
Here In Pa. if you need a ride the hospital in an ambulance you have to pay for it. Accidents happen but folks that put their own lives at risk is one thing. But to make this someone else's problem is what I was referring to. Whether your insurance pays for it or it comes out of you own pocket no matter. I just think that in general people that require assistance should have take some responsibility for their own actions. If by the rules they call for an alternate form of steering and a death results who ever made the decision to sail without it and a death results from that decision should be banned from racing for the rest of their life and also be held responsible at least partially for manslaughter. Bad decisions in most other facets of life carry consequences why should this type of behavior be exempt?
D.D.
 
Will-C":1c1g271d said:
Here In Pa. if you need a ride the hospital in an ambulance you have to pay for it. Accidents happen but folks that put their own lives at risk is one thing. But to make this someone else's problem is what I was referring to. Whether your insurance pays for it or it comes out of you own pocket no matter. I just think that in general people that require assistance should have take some responsibility for their own actions. If by the rules they call for an alternate form of steering and a death results who ever made the decision to sail without it and a death results from that decision should be banned from racing for the rest of their life and also be held responsible at least partially for manslaughter. Bad decisions in most other facets of life carry consequences why should this type of behavior be exempt?
D.D.
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(Red emphasis mine)

Dave-

I agree fully, and I'm sure a good lawyer could make a great law suit out of it and get a very handsome settlement.

Not to carry the alternate rudder or some sort of propulsion when clearly required by the rules is a truly inexcusable and unconscionable decision for which a person should be fully accountable.

(And especially so when racing offshore!)

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
There are some egregious cases such as a 50+ foot boat which was rescued by the Coast Guard 3 times in 3 months a few years ago off the mid Atlantic Coast. The boat was unfit, but the folks still kept going out, with a goal of reaching the caribbean. Under the authority of 46 United States Code 4302 and 4308,

The Coast Guard District commander can issue a "PROHIBITION TO SAIL - MANIFESTLY UNSAFE VOYAGE" order and prevent a vessel from proceeding on a voyage. This prevision was used to prevent the owners of this vessel (and a number of similar cases) to continue a voyage or even leave a harbor.
 
Here I'm not speaking of this race specifically, but just in general on the topic. I think one factor is that we have a sort of "overlap" of humans and what technology can now do. What I mean is that to me, the sea is one of the few places where people can still do as they see fit in many ways (not talking about proper lighting or rules of the road here). You can buy or build a boat, outfit it according to your beliefs and desires, and go sailing. You go out there, it's you and the sea and your boat. If you are unprepared, if either your boat or you or your crew is unseaworthy.... well, you might be lucky, but you just as likely might not be. Even up until I was out there, that basically meant that if you were unlucky, you probably weren't going to see land again unless you got yourself out of trouble. Sure, there were things like ham patches and some medical rescues (for people who had that equipment, which was not most folks), but by and large it was assumed it would you and your wits and your spares. Even when I was sailing (which was not THAT long ago), I didn't really have any sort of realistic idea that if I got into trouble someone would rescue me. Okay, we did have a liferaft, but drifting around in that for weeks or months (presuming it didn't sink) was certainly no guarantee of anything except probably being thirsty.

I think discomfort and lack of communications kept many people at home. No way to be really comfortable, not much electricity or water, not much way to contact kids or grandkids. Needing navigational skills took care of another big chunk of folks (and that would have included me, because I went with GPS).

So now it's "easy" to get out there, and relatively comfortable (water makers, refrigeration, comms with family back home), and now there are EPIRBs (for the masses, as they are affordable), cell phones, sat phones, etc. People "expect" to get rescued if there is a problem. And the nature of the problems seems to have become "pettier." I remember a rescue a few years ago in the Atlantic. The people were well out to sea and their chartplotter quit working. Nothing was actually wrong with the boat; they had sea room galore. The quote was something like "We're out in the ocean and we don't know where we are." That sort of thing makes me cringe because (selfishly) I know it's the beginning of rules and regulations that may keep me at home (even if I am not going to call in for a reason like that). The latter bothers me more than the tax money, because there are things that take much, much more money per person per year that I'm much less supportive of. Realistically, I'd guess the rescues probably don't make a noticeable dent in my wallet each year. I also don't like the idea of putting rescuers in needless danger, although I think I have read that they sometimes just use it for needed practice (I don't know if that's true though).

Anyway, I seem to have rambled, but I was just thinking about how we are at a place and time wherein it's relatively "easy and comfortable" for folks to go out offshore, and it's also relatively easy to call for a rescue. People now expect one, basically. I guess if the rules are going to change, I'd prefer to have to pay for a rescue than to have my freedoms curtailed, but then (since nothing is usually ever that simple) there would be other ramifications. So ultimately I don't know what's the best way.
 
People prepare, take on and handle risk differently from "no preparation" to the extreme. A "Bell Curve" scenario. That is because people are just being people. What makes sense for one, doesn't for the other and so on.

Boating isn't the only pastime that involves risk. Is it possible to actually rehearse and plan for every potential problem on the water or elsewhere?

How many carry a winter emergency pack in their vehicle in case you get stuck in a remote location? Or "really" not drink alcohol and drive? How about that cell phone or texting when driving? Do you consider avoiding flammable polyester clothing when you fly? How many motorcyclists have you seen without helmets? What about cleaning your wood burning chimney annually? How do you feel about national security and are you prepping for "doomsday" like many?

The point is stuff happens, people go about things differently and "common sense" is not so common.

Aye.
 
Unfortunately the easier it is to take off and go sailing off into the sunset, the more unprepared folks can be. A couple of years ago a gentleman was considering buying a 65 foot yacht. His first comment to me was "I fly my own Lear jet, why should it be any different for me to take my family in this new 65 footer and take it from Florida to Hawaii in a couple of months?" Fortunately he took my advice and hired a captain. They spent 6 weeks in the Bahamas, and even this multi million dollar was set up properly for anchoring, which became apparent very quickly. They spent the two months in the Bahamas, with the captain aboard. The new yacht went up for sale--at a several million dollar loss, and the man bought a fractional ownership on a 125 footer with a 6 man crew....

In many countries there a "licenses" for boat operators such as the Certificates of Competence in England or International Certificate of Competence, which restrict where they can go in their own boat--as well as the boat classification such as canal only, near shore--no more than xx miles offshore, limited ocean, and all oceans. Many countries such as in Europe require these certifications, even for foreign skippers. Your boat can be impounded if you or the boat do not fit the qualifications. Not like that in the USA (yet)

Sunbeam if you want to go back before Loran/Omega, then you are before the early 70's. Many offshore boats at that point had ham radios (The Atlas 210/215 and Swan ham radios were available and affordable for mariners).
If you go back to the late 30's or late 40's (leaving out WWII period),there were very few world cruisers because of the lack of suitable boats available to the "masses". The introduction of fiberglass mass production boats changed all of that.
 
It's true. Just because a person can write a fat check to purchase a yacht does not indicate he/she will be a safe boater/pilot/driver.

Grandma used to say, "Stupid should hurt."

Aye.
 
Bob Austin

Thanks so much for sharing this story and safety info.. The way you specifically addressed problems and possible solutions makes for real usefulness. I appreciate hearing this from an experienced mariner as yourself and others. Getting perspective beyond ones present frame provides an opportunity for being able to recognize improvement is needed. This thread is a valuable resource for me.

Thanks again,
Tom
 
Bob --
I second Tom's thanks. Your post has generated a marvelous discussion of safety issues and equipment, and your experienced comments helped set the tone. Good contribution, Bob.
 
Bob

I think you mentioned earlier that you have a custom soft jacket or vest that you can wear under an outer PFD. Can you describe this more. I was wondering if you meant a soft neoprene PFD like the ones used for skiing that I saw in an "Overtons" Marine catalog some years ago, or maybe a neoprene wet suit top used for diving? If I am understanding you, you might use this combination to increase buoyancy and warmth for potentially more hazardous situations and the other for more general use?

Tom
 
Tom,
The vest has one layer of 1/4' closed cell foam on the entire back and one layer of 1/4" and one layer of 3/8" closed cell foam in the front half of the vest. The foam is encased in a true vest of heavy ballistic Nylon--Every 3 inches in chevron pattern the back and front the 1/4" foam was sewn into the vest, in the front the 3/8" was floating in compartments. The vest was about 4" below the waist, with a draw string in the waist. The arm holes are smaller than the water ski type of vests. The front has a heavy duty YKK zipper its entire length. There is a collar which is about 2 1/2" high, and the zipper comes up into this, so it will protect your neck. The inner part of the entire vest is lined with a lighter satin type of nylon, and there are hand warmer type of pockets on each side. There were none of the "latch" type of straps, and the vests are not CG approved. At the time these (and a complete custom set of foul weather gear) were given to us by the Seal Beach North Sails loft. We had been racing several years with North Sails, under a relationship where we got a discount on sails, our sails were recut fairly often and we usually had a member of the loft staff on our boat to call genoa trim, in return photographs of our boat was featured in ads for North Sails. This gift, as we were departing on our first 4 year cruise, was a result of my discussions with the loft manager about an ideal life jacket/which could be comfortably worn, give warmth and protection for the ribs. At this time North Sports was making some sailing clothing as subsidiary of North Sails. I would guess the floatation at about 20 lbs.
 
Bob

I see what you mean when you said custom. Very nice gift. Thank you for telling its story/history. I can see how you could wear an additional life vest over it, particularly an inflatable type.

I would have really appreciated the rib protection a few times around the 4th and 5th grade when I was as one with a special pony named Virgil. I not only learned to ride but also fly on occasion when we were not as one.

I presently have non inflatable Type lll's on my boat for everyone, plus one of West Marines Type V coastal automatic/manual inflatables. I think its performance rating is Type lll and I am sure its designation is that it must be worn to count. I just finished reading the West advisor on federal regulations- coast guard regs. concerning life jackets for recreation types of boating, types of boating and recommended life jackets, and classifying inflatables by coast guard types. I needed to review this stuff, particularly the classifications of inflatables as it is a bit more complicated.

I would appreciate knowing your preference on your boat, inflatable or non-inflatable?

I know I have seen your preferences for a ditch bag on a different thread. I must admit I do not have one. I have most of the contents you would want in the bag and they are on the boat but not in the bag and reviewed with my wife.

As part of the ditch plan do you keep a dedicated non inflatable life vest with strobe light pre-attached and radio?

Is your strobe light automatic or manual?

Tom
 
Ditch bag, kept by the helm station or carried in the dinghy: I have these in one place in a bag which is waterproof, but not too bulky, so it can be easily carried.

ditch_bag_010.jpg
From the upper left corner around clockwise.:
Gerber Multi tool, Red vinyl with black center for distress signal, plus about 3'/4' plastic for shelter,
3 aerial flares, smoke signal and cigarette lighter, length of para-cord, 1/8" line,
Crescent Wrench, small vise grips, foil blanket, pad of paper and pen, VHF radio--waterproof AA battery powered.

hand bearing compass, whistle, Personal Locator beacon, Manual strobe/flash light AA battery powered,

Signal mirror, fishing tackle--3 hooks, several lures, monofiliment and line,

Extra Batteries (AA), First aid kit (bandaids, betadine swabs, closure strips, telfa squares, square 30" muslim (makes two triangular bandages), Kerlex)

Not in the photo small GPS and large Swiss Army knife"Swiss Champ"
=======
I carry two to six type II PDF, depending on "crew"--when off shore just the 2 of us we have 2 type I vests. We carry 2 West Marine Belt inflatable packs, mostly used in the dinghy. We have our Vests type iii type by North Sports, may also carry 2 water ski type of type III vests if other crew. We keep two inflatable collar type of SOSpenders, with VHF radio, Strobe, Small VHF radio and whistle, clipped to the jackets, which hang by the door. There is also a Gerber multitool and Buck Sheath knife plus fire extinguisher by the cabin door.

Each person has to determine what their policy is as per life jackets aboard. On our boat all children under 16 have to have a jacket on at all times. (We have about 6 assorted sizes of children jackets at the house). Adults as they wish. Normally we do not wear jackets unless it is unusually rough, when below. If we have to go to the fore deck when underway and it is rough we have both tethers and have life jackets worn.

Strobes are manual.

We have 3 Personal Locator beacons aboard--one in the ditch bag and one each of our inflatable PDF's.

When we were crossing oceans we had one EPRIB by the companionway, and one packed in the survival gear (including food, water maker, water etc) which was in a 13 foot inflatable, which had CO2 bottles attached for rapid inflation. We also had a 10 foot rigid dinghy which had a cover packed in it--and was kept filled with fenders attached inside the boat, and easily launched from davits. We don't use a large EPRIB currently, feeling that the PLB are far more versatile, since we have our son's and daughter's phone numbers registered to the PLBs and they know if we are traveling in the RV, hiking or in the boat.
 
Bob

This is great! You've hit a home run for me and the team. It's shows the details, the big picture, and how they are organized. I'm missing more items than I realized.

We keep two inflatable collar type of SOSpenders, with VHF radio, Strobe, Small VHF radio and whistle, clipped to the jackets, which hang by the door. There is also a Gerber multitool and Buck Sheath knife plus fire extinguisher by the cabin door.
Click to expand...

I am trying to envision how these items are hanging/fastened so they are not in the way and hitting you when its rougher, going in and out the door? Are they on the inside of the cabin, on the bulkhead next to the hinged side of the door?

Regarding the tether lines you use if having to go to the gunnels/ bow when it's rough. How is this set up on your boat? Is it attached to the roof rails? I assume the inflatable PFD you keep by the door has the harness feature to secure you?

Tom
 
Good Thread. Thanks for bringing it up Bob. As always, I enjoy your analysis and application to the C-Dory world.

Just a quick note: If anyone is using inflatable PFD's it is worth the recharge fee to to see how it works ONCE at least. I had not done a CO2 inflate prior to the scheduled replacement, so thought I would try it. It was a bit of a surprise, standing in the living room I pulled the T handle and it was a pretty significant POP, when it came up.

Now all my inflatable PFD's are recharged and ready for a few more seasons. Good to know. Never go out on the water without one on.

We can always use a reminder to respect our environment, and to know our equipment's capabilities and restrictions.

Make good judgments.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon

IMG_2044_sized_1.thumb.jpg
 
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