LED Nav Lights

Hi Guys,

I just went on the Marinebeam site to order the TW-GE-15 bulb for my anchor light. First check box said, warm or cool white? I checked cool, because you guys had covered that. Next check box was, single or double contact? Huh, no one mentioned that before! I assume it is "double", but wanted to be absolutely sure before ordering. Is "double" the correct answer?

Martin.
 
I looked that up a week or so ago. I had found out that the Perko anchor light fixture itself varied over the years in terms of being "two or three wire," so I figured that maybe the bulb contacts were not all the same either (not an electrical expert but just didn't want to assume anything on the bulbs). So, I looked at mine (which turned out to be double contact).

What you do is remove the bulb and look at the bottom of it. It will have either one or two raised, silver contact "bumps," which corresponds with single or double contact designation. Note that it's not the two "Frankenstein" lugs on the side, which lock the bulb into the socket, but rather the contact bumps on the bottom.

Here is a page on Marine Beam's site that shows the two:

http://store.marinebeam.com/bapr.html

Sunbeam
 
Just replaced my nav lights with the Marinebeam LED's and found that now I can see inside the fixture, which seems a bit weird. The LED's have cells all the way around so light in 360* instead of just in the needed (122.5* I think it is) so I am wondering about adding some reflectivity behind the LED to get more light into the desired direction.

Picture of lens with LED bulb. Can see the internal parts of the fixture.
http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album1819/40_G.jpg[img]

Picture of nav light with an incandescent bulb in place. Cannot see the internal parts.
[img]http://www.boatersworld.com/top/7/1672/116/20121001/www.ritzcamera.com/graphics/products/m-77/MP80815977.jpg

So I am wondering if it would it be a good idea to place a reflective material behind the LED to increase the intensity of the outward going light. (The material I was thinking of is crinkled up and then flattened aluminum foil, glued into the fixture to avoid shorting anything out, and stuck in with double stick tape or 4200.

I have not checked whether mine are visible at 2 miles out yet.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
OK, I'm not getting the image transfer done right. The one I was trying to bring in to the previous post is the one from page one of this thread, the 4th image down....

Sorry.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
Seem to remember Perko sales a reflector kit for those lights. I put the Marinebeams in mine and they seem plenty bright.
 
After installing all the "proper" LED's, I turned them on and walked down the road at Mystery Bay last night. They show up well. At close to a mile they were still very visible , and twice as bright as a sailboat with an anchor light on that was about the same distance.

It was a good idea. The new anchor light LED post is taller and lighter than the original.....and brighter.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
I just spoke to Jeff at Marinebeam, as I have decided to start replacing some of my navigation and anchor lights with LED lights. He is offering a 10% discount to all C-Dory owners with any purchase thru 12/2014. When you check out just put “c-dory” (without the quotes) in the promotion code box and you will be the 10% off.

Good luck

Jim
 
Sweet deal, and nice of you to arrange/publish it :thup

I bought a full set of the Marine Beam's a couple of months ago. They pop right in, and the one in the all-around light fits nicely (i.e. the bulb lines up with the center of the "fresnel" lens). I used them for the first time here on Powell and they are nice and bright. I appreciated the bright anchor light when anchored in a bay that could see traffic (the first night). Only problem is, it was so bright it was practically "light pollution"!

I have only used it underway at dusk; in full darkness it might be nice to have some sort of shield to protect night vision if the light is in the stock location (Perko makes one but I can never find it in stock anywhere).

I kind of wanted to order a Bebi Owl with the photo sensor for the all-around, but for now went the "easy" route with the Marine Beams (the Bebi is a great light, but won't pop right in with our Perko fixtures). Whether or not I get a Bebi in the future (and/or other "real LED" - potted - sidelights), I'm very happy I got the Marine Beam bulbs.
 
Until recently, our mast light was the double bulb Perko that many of the newer boats have. Bulbs kept on blowing due to vibration, as well as salt water intrusion. Initially, I regarded this as an inconvenience and just kept a bunch of bulbs on board, so I could replace them as needed, however, when we returned from the Delta/Bay Extravaganza earlier this year, I came to realize that we had been traveling at night, across the center of San Francisco Bay, with both bulbs out. Something had to be done.

I had previously experimented with Dr. LED, but they had disintegrated due to the poor design of the Perko fixture, which allows some salt water to intrude. They were also not as bright as the original, non-LED, bulbs.

As this turned into a project, I considered building my own all-around from multiple high-intensity bulbs, but came upon an interesting legal issue. Apparently naval light fixtures are certified to be used with a certain type of bulb. If one is using a USCG approved fixture/bulb combination and there is an accident then there is a legal presumption that it was sufficient. If it is a bulb of my own construction, or a fixture being used with a commercially available bulb, but in a combination that has not been tested and approved, then the burden of proof would be on me.

In the end I decided that this is too important, as we cruise a lot at night, and spent nearly $250 on a Signal Mate LED 3NM Anchor 360 degree all-around light. I also splurged on getting the photocell version, as well as a little plastic adapter allowing it to mount to my existing pole.

It is stamped with a USCG 3NM right on the case, is extremely bright, yet draws only .16amps. It is also water-proof, vibration resistant, and has a clear top so it could be seen by aircraft in an emergency. Our recent trip up the coast provided plenty of punishing conditions, including the bulb getting slapped by the tops of waves, yet there were no issues.

The light is made by MISEAgroup and is sold by a number of outlets, including West Marine. The model number for the one with the photodiode is 3NM360WP.
 
I have a 360° white led with photo sensor and found that if you turn your lights on in daytime fog it will not light. ( duh )

So I bought a incandescent 360° light for when I am running and charging the battery.

Bill Kelleher
 
Dave is being cautious, since for our size boat an all around steaming light has to be seen at least 2 miles. It very wise to use a brighter light when at sea--as Blue Eagle does running up and down the coast. Even when under sail, when crossing oceans we ran a mast head white light with 5 miles visibility, since the red and green navigation lights, even at the masthead in a tricolor or bright red and greens even 7 feet off the water are hard to see at sea--even harder when it is rough.

Dave is also correct that the navigation lights do need to be certified. (some of the folks on THT called me out for stating just what Dave noted above about certified lights and legal issues. I showed that each of the good manufactures have certification from multiple agencies. Aqua Signal makes LED bulbs which are certified for their incandescent fixtures. Dr LED also makes LED bulbs for Hella, Aquasignal, Perko and Atwood fixtures, and claims that they "meet USCG certification.

Hella and Aqua Signal also make very high quality lights which I prefer to the Atwood and Perko fixtures.
 
thataway said:

"Dave is being cautious, since for our size boat an all around steaming light has to be seen at least 2 miles. It very wise to use a brighter light when at sea--as Blue Eagle does running up and down the coast. Even when under sail, when crossing oceans we ran a mast head white light with 5 miles visibility, since the red and green navigation lights, even at the masthead in a tricolor or bright red and greens even 7 feet off the water are hard to see at sea--even harder when it is rough."
Click to expand...

Bob, This is something I have been thinking of recently. Since the Sidney CBGT, and spending some time running in fog, I was thinking back to being down on the Columbia, fishing with friends, and seeing the big commercial fishing boats come through the fog. The first thing we would see would be those big quartz halide work lights, from 5+ miles away. In the fog we would just see this bright ball of bright moving by. No way to see nav lights, too foggy, but those big white driving lights do show up.

So I am thinking. How about adding some bright lights, driving for forward and flood for side to us for "fog" running lights? (I have been thinking of bringing this up in a separate thread) I know there are concerns about flare, and night vision etc. My thinking is -- there are a lot small, fast boats in our area that are not running radar, and it might help me show up better. Same thing about fog horns. After much of a week running several hours a day in fog, I only rarely heard another fog horn. (One guy in an open fishing boat picked up a canned air horn and blew it back at me after mine went off on the 2 minute timer. He was about 50 yards from me and relatively visable.)

Your thoughts on some bright lights please.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
thataway said:

"Dave is being cautious, since for our size boat an all around steaming light has to be seen at least 2 miles. It very wise to use a brighter light when at sea--as Blue Eagle does running up and down the coast. Even when under sail, when crossing oceans we ran a mast head white light with 5 miles visibility, since the red and green navigation lights, even at the masthead in a tricolor or bright red and greens even 7 feet off the water are hard to see at sea--even harder when it is rough."
Click to expand...

Bob, This is something I have been thinking of recently. Since the Sidney CBGT, and spending some time running in fog, I was thinking back to being down on the Columbia, fishing with friends, and seeing the big commercial fishing boats come through the fog. The first thing we would see would be those big quartz halide work lights, from 5+ miles away. In the fog we would just see this bright ball of bright moving by. No way to see nav lights, too foggy, but those big white driving lights do show up.

So I am thinking. How about adding some bright lights, driving for forward and flood for side to us for "fog" running lights? (I have been thinking of bringing this up in a separate thread) I know there are concerns about flare, and night vision etc. My thinking is -- there are a lot small, fast boats in our area that are not running radar, and it might help me show up better. Same thing about fog horns. After much of a week running several hours a day in fog, I only rarely heard another fog horn. (One guy in an open fishing boat picked up a canned air horn and blew it back at me after mine went off on the 2 minute timer. He was about 50 yards from me and relatively visable.)

Your thoughts on some bright lights please.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
Brightness is the key. You want all the photons you can get.
The easiest way to check is high noon. Turn the mast head light on with a full sun overhead and look up. Is the light is bright enough to see?
The Marinebeam bulb is.
The standard incandescent bulb is not.
I have no recent experience with other brands of LED bulbs because many caused noise in the radio. Jeff's bulbs are designed specifically to be free of interference so I stick with them from now on.
 
Hardee,

it is a tradeoff, for sure. So far, I am more inclined to keep as much night vision as I can, to spot deadheads and other debris, running in the Columbia. That is a no fog concern. In fog, I illuminate the running lights and run slower, off the channel, in water shallow enough I don't expect to encounter fast moving small guys. Bigger boats don't run the shallow parts; any that do will likely have radar and see me.

truth to tell, I avoid fog. You will get a lot of back scatter off those big bright halogen lights in fog, I think. The commercial crabbers pretty much have to use them to find and service pots. Always wondered why they leave them on after pots are aboard.
 
hardee":qh7d7889 said:
How about adding some bright lights, driving for forward and flood for side to us for "fog" running lights?
Click to expand...

I'm sure you know this, but just make sure that whatever lights you might add aren't mistaken for additional nav lights. For example, could a new side flood light appear as a second mast head light to someone approaching from port / stbd?
 
Rob,

That is a good consideration. It could be possible, but I have no idea which would be worse, considered that I was towing, or that I had "driving "lights on plus the nav lights.

Dave,

The back scatter is a real concern, as is the night vision preservation. The lights would not be for usual circumstances. For that matter, usual circumstances at night, I'm at a dock somewhere. I have gotten some glare back from the bow rail when using the spot on one occasion. I'm thinking the use would be rare and in unusual circumstances...some sort of an emergency trip, a late night arrival at a dock or float, or to light up an area to be easier to be seen.

At this point I am considering, but not set, thus the questions. Thanks for the input.

Harvey
SleepyC:moon
 
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