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Lack of Dealers
- Thread starter teflonmom
- Start date
I came upon this link today:
http://www.fishtheclassic.net/forums/sh ... hp?t=22104
This deals with the fate of Shamrock (Defiant and Albin are also involved to some degree)--several C Dory dealers have also posted on this thread. If you take the time to read the entire thread it gives some real insite into the situation facing the boat industry. It was very similar in the late 70's when I purchased a boat building company. In my case the cost was miminal, included hull and molds, as well as all in stock parts and the name. Attending a few auctions provided all we needed to build boats. In the long run it was a profitable decision we made to purchase the company, but some of the changes of the boating world are well pointed out by Matt Gurnsey in one of his posts.
http://www.fishtheclassic.net/forums/sh ... hp?t=22104
This deals with the fate of Shamrock (Defiant and Albin are also involved to some degree)--several C Dory dealers have also posted on this thread. If you take the time to read the entire thread it gives some real insite into the situation facing the boat industry. It was very similar in the late 70's when I purchased a boat building company. In my case the cost was miminal, included hull and molds, as well as all in stock parts and the name. Attending a few auctions provided all we needed to build boats. In the long run it was a profitable decision we made to purchase the company, but some of the changes of the boating world are well pointed out by Matt Gurnsey in one of his posts.
After reading a lot of the Shramrock story posts I still can,t figure out if anyone got anything going. I guess I should not complain about the lack of dealers and be happy that C-Dory boats are still being built in these rough times.
Nimble Boats went down after the death of the founder Gerry Couch. It was revived by a few dealers several years age. Now they are completely gone.We drove by the factory in Florida last winter. The buildings are empty and the only thing that remains is a rusty mailbox that says NIMBLE. Gerry was a true character and the boats had a charm something like C-Dory. We owned a Nomad Trawler, about 26 ft. powered with a 50 HP Honda.
Fred, Pat, and Mr. Grey(the cat)
Nimble Boats went down after the death of the founder Gerry Couch. It was revived by a few dealers several years age. Now they are completely gone.We drove by the factory in Florida last winter. The buildings are empty and the only thing that remains is a rusty mailbox that says NIMBLE. Gerry was a true character and the boats had a charm something like C-Dory. We owned a Nomad Trawler, about 26 ft. powered with a 50 HP Honda.
Fred, Pat, and Mr. Grey(the cat)
My thoughts about the Shamrocks is that there were only four molds available there (and probably the most recent ones) These molds were not in the best of shape. There were some who wanted the name, and molds for a very low price. The investor wanted more. Either way, the industry is fragile currently. It shows that trends in boating and advances can change what type of boat is wanted/popular. In some ways, the SE boat building is over populated. Too many similar boats. Some good, some not as good.
Hi,
Well unless it's a warranty situation I'd imagine Cutter Marine is still in business and would be glad to provide service. If it is warranty possibly Frank at Fluid Marine could provide reimbursement to the owner after the owner paid Cutter. Hopefully the smaller dealer base will make it better for the remaining faithful. Keeping some brochures in your boat and continuing efforts to provide info and boat rides, walk throughs by the owners who feel comfortable will provide fuel for desire to drive longer distances to the dealers that remain. I think the industry needs to change, the old saying if you ask how much it costs you can't afford it line might be better put in storage. One thing I think would be a low cost plus would be to have C-Dory provide a loose leaf binder complete with hull number contact info along with tabs and clear pockets for each manual on factory supplied accessory along with owners manual for the boat. The dealer could add to it with dealer supplied options rather than getting a box with all the manuals just thrown in. Some dealers need to more thorough in inspecting the final product much like a good waitress looks out for you looking at your plate before putting the product out on the table. Being a handyman has always been to be a prerequisite for boat ownership unless you had deep pockets. Some folks after spending 60 to 100 thousand plus have a hard time dealing with items that should have been corrected as a result of the the dealers final inspection before delivery. For others fixing these items is part of the fun. The dealers and the boat and accessory manufacturer's need to work on making things more plug and play Some new owners might tend to feel taken advantage of after dropping what they feel is a decent wad of cash on their new baby. Please don't take this as an attack just an observation. If your slow what a great time to improve customer service. Small details that don't cost much can mean a lot. And The beat goes on. B.Man I don't know about the her boat but she has a bunch of CD's. Thanks for getting me. la-de da de da. I sent D. Baker to you.
D.D.
Well unless it's a warranty situation I'd imagine Cutter Marine is still in business and would be glad to provide service. If it is warranty possibly Frank at Fluid Marine could provide reimbursement to the owner after the owner paid Cutter. Hopefully the smaller dealer base will make it better for the remaining faithful. Keeping some brochures in your boat and continuing efforts to provide info and boat rides, walk throughs by the owners who feel comfortable will provide fuel for desire to drive longer distances to the dealers that remain. I think the industry needs to change, the old saying if you ask how much it costs you can't afford it line might be better put in storage. One thing I think would be a low cost plus would be to have C-Dory provide a loose leaf binder complete with hull number contact info along with tabs and clear pockets for each manual on factory supplied accessory along with owners manual for the boat. The dealer could add to it with dealer supplied options rather than getting a box with all the manuals just thrown in. Some dealers need to more thorough in inspecting the final product much like a good waitress looks out for you looking at your plate before putting the product out on the table. Being a handyman has always been to be a prerequisite for boat ownership unless you had deep pockets. Some folks after spending 60 to 100 thousand plus have a hard time dealing with items that should have been corrected as a result of the the dealers final inspection before delivery. For others fixing these items is part of the fun. The dealers and the boat and accessory manufacturer's need to work on making things more plug and play Some new owners might tend to feel taken advantage of after dropping what they feel is a decent wad of cash on their new baby. Please don't take this as an attack just an observation. If your slow what a great time to improve customer service. Small details that don't cost much can mean a lot. And The beat goes on. B.Man I don't know about the her boat but she has a bunch of CD's. Thanks for getting me. la-de da de da. I sent D. Baker to you.
D.D.
dave-
You've got a whole bunch of great ideas in that post! Nice job, and good thinking!
The only thing I'd comment on, is the degree to which folks try to hold Fluid Marine responsible for the shortcomings of the former C-Dory ownership, something you addressed by using the word "possibly" in your post.
It's been suggested several times before that owners of C-Dorys built by the former owner seek redress from the current owner, Fluid Marine, and they have done what they can, within reasonable limits, based on their financial capacity, and the current economic situation.
I'm sure it would be advantageous to the C-Dory reputation to have Fluid Marine correct all the errors committed previously, but there are some obvious limits to this.
Maybe all of this should be understood without being said, but I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to point it out directly to any new boat owners, just as another facet to understand in the manufacturer/dealer/warranty/ownership ball game.
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth :thup
You've got a whole bunch of great ideas in that post! Nice job, and good thinking!
The only thing I'd comment on, is the degree to which folks try to hold Fluid Marine responsible for the shortcomings of the former C-Dory ownership, something you addressed by using the word "possibly" in your post.
It's been suggested several times before that owners of C-Dorys built by the former owner seek redress from the current owner, Fluid Marine, and they have done what they can, within reasonable limits, based on their financial capacity, and the current economic situation.
I'm sure it would be advantageous to the C-Dory reputation to have Fluid Marine correct all the errors committed previously, but there are some obvious limits to this.
Maybe all of this should be understood without being said, but I'm thinking it might be worthwhile to point it out directly to any new boat owners, just as another facet to understand in the manufacturer/dealer/warranty/ownership ball game.
Cheers!
Joe. :teeth :thup
Matt Gurnsey
New member
I must say that you guys (and gals!) are some of the most thoughtful people I have seen. Even when disagreements occur, there is intelligent conversation on both sides.
From a dealer standpoint, we are glad that the market is not flooded with C-Dory dealers right now. When too many dealers exist, the weak ones get desperate and begin selling product at very small margins.
WHile in the short run this may benefit the consumer, in the long run it is bad for the industry. Weak dealers may not be able to offer good support after the sale. Their attitude may be "Well, we didn't make much money, so we won't go out of our way to be helpful", or worse, they make so little money that they can't stay in business.
Certainly consumers want the best value possible, but sometimes that isn't the lowest price. For many, service is important.
Some of the small details mentioned, from binders to sea trials cost money. The dealer does these things with the hopes of building value, and generating sales, and future service business.
But these things cost money. Man hours in prepping boats, cleaning them after a sea trial, hauling and launching, fuel; it all adds up. Plus the fear that if we put hours on a boat that the consumer will then want a heavy discount because it has been demo'd.
Sometimes it feels like we're walking a tightrope, without a net. Sales are down, so we make less money. The market is competitive, so we make less per boat than we would normally hope to. The customer wants more, while paying less.
This means that the sales force makes less money, so some very good, talented individuals may leave the industry. Although really, most of us are not in this industry because we expect to get rich, or because it's easy. I'm in this industry because I love boats and boating. I think, after talking with Marc at Wefings that it's a similar story for him.
What it means in the end, that if you want a C-Dory, you may have tow ork at it a bit more. But that's true of anything that isn't as mainstream. Like some very good wines, or beers, they aren't sold on every street corner.
But that's what makes them special.
From a dealer standpoint, we are glad that the market is not flooded with C-Dory dealers right now. When too many dealers exist, the weak ones get desperate and begin selling product at very small margins.
WHile in the short run this may benefit the consumer, in the long run it is bad for the industry. Weak dealers may not be able to offer good support after the sale. Their attitude may be "Well, we didn't make much money, so we won't go out of our way to be helpful", or worse, they make so little money that they can't stay in business.
Certainly consumers want the best value possible, but sometimes that isn't the lowest price. For many, service is important.
Some of the small details mentioned, from binders to sea trials cost money. The dealer does these things with the hopes of building value, and generating sales, and future service business.
But these things cost money. Man hours in prepping boats, cleaning them after a sea trial, hauling and launching, fuel; it all adds up. Plus the fear that if we put hours on a boat that the consumer will then want a heavy discount because it has been demo'd.
Sometimes it feels like we're walking a tightrope, without a net. Sales are down, so we make less money. The market is competitive, so we make less per boat than we would normally hope to. The customer wants more, while paying less.
This means that the sales force makes less money, so some very good, talented individuals may leave the industry. Although really, most of us are not in this industry because we expect to get rich, or because it's easy. I'm in this industry because I love boats and boating. I think, after talking with Marc at Wefings that it's a similar story for him.
What it means in the end, that if you want a C-Dory, you may have tow ork at it a bit more. But that's true of anything that isn't as mainstream. Like some very good wines, or beers, they aren't sold on every street corner.
But that's what makes them special.
Well said Matt .I dont know why anyone would choose to be in the marine industry right now .There are so many factors going against us. The abundance of repos,manufacturers going down right and left,the lack of support and usurous interest rates from floorplan companies and senseless selling practices of motor manufacturers,unafordable benefits for our employees,the attitude that folks should get something at or below cost and still get incredible service. Predatory buyers are usually the ones that demand the most service ,yet we cant afford turn anyone one down .And not to be ignored,boats are discretionary items, you can live without one . Its a catch 22 with no winners. Its not an unlikely scenario that all of your C Brat C Dorys will become collectors items in the near future. And by the way I really appreciate the good words folks have to say about us . It really does mean alot to me .
Marc
Marc
Wefings":1iucljis said:Well said Matt .I dont know why anyone would choose to be in the marine industry right now .There are so many factors going against us.
... .And not to be ignored,boats are discretionary items, you can live without one...
And by the way I really appreciate the good words folks have to say about us . It really does mean alot to me .
Marc
Bite your tongue! Live without a boat??? I'd get rid of the house before I'd get rid of the boat. Other than undertaking, the emergency medical field, and being in the repo biz, I'm not sure what industry would be good to be in right now. Matt and Marc, please know that your presence here is a real plus to this forum. Current owners would be wise to direct buyers to the good guys like you two.
Best wishes,
Jim B.
thataway":b8bzlh95 said:Dave, I am not perticularily sticking up for Wefing's--but I have been at all of the Gulf Coast gatherings, and I don't perticularly remember any 16 footers at these gatherings. My experience has been that Wefing's has always provided boats for sea trials if they had a boat in stock.
I would say that the 16 is not popular in Florida for a number of reasons, but mostly because there is little call for this type of boat with a cabin. The 16 is too small for air conditioning (maybe could use a carry on)--and with the hot weather, the small cabin could be restrictive and hot. Most bays have substantial chop--and the 16 would not be a good boat for the ride in these conditions. For lakes and rivers, the open boats are much more popular.
Dr Bob
We met you at the first gathering in Apalachicola. One of the reasons I came was because of the glowing reports I read here about Marc and Wefings. Marc had asked me to work with Charlie. Charlie showed me the 16 and 19 they had in stock. Charlie aparently didn't want to give me a sea trial, because I had driven my car to the gathering instead of my truck (I couldn't immediately tow my new boat home). I got the impression that Charlie was just blowing me off. He didn't seem particularly interested in selling me a boat.
Byrdman graciously offered me a ride in his 18. I went with him only for a short ride, because I really felt uncomfortable imposing on him. Byrdman also offered me a ride back to the marina in a 25. The 25 was really smooth. The 18 gave me a feeling of the chatter of the dory hull.
The slower I can cruise and still stay on plane, the happier I am. Water lapping against the hull is music to my ears. I have been aware of C-Dorys since we moved to Florida 5 years ago. I love the look and minimalistic concept of these boats. Simple, seaworthy, tough are major criteria I want in a boat. Two things I really liked about the 16 was a place to take a nap and a cabin to stay out of the sun. I had a lot of very specific criteria any boat I was going to buy had to meet. I am aware that all boats are a compromise. but the 16 was one of 3 or 4 boats that met my requirements. I am aware of the reasons you stated above for the 16 not being popular in Florida. If I wanted a "normal" boat, I could have bought one here in town. The 16 still meets my requirements, but I don't need 2 16 foot boats.
Pat Anderson
New member
That thought has kind of crossed my mind as well, Marc. There is one difference with C-Dory though. The money behind Fluid Marine is the founder or one of the founders of F5 Networks. F5 makes the infrastructure that powers eBay and Amazon, and continues to do very well. He might run out of interest, but he is not going to run out of money. Unfortunately the big Auburn factory is not nearly as well suited as the little Kent factory was to go into self-preservation mode.
Wefings":272lqy6r said:Its not an unlikely scenario that all of your C Brat C Dorys will become collectors items in the near future.