La Niña

El and Bill

New member
The complexities of atmospheric science interlinked with oceanic currents are almost as difficult to understand as the debate over one or two engines on a C-Dory 22 – and the effects on C-Brat cruising this summer is about as clear cut.

Anyway, I’m hoping there might be someone in the pub that can set us straight on what we might expect in the way of weather patterns this summer in the Pacific NW. (I taught Oceanography, but that was back in the Paleolithic).

I understand we are currently in an ongoing La Niña, that began in the third quarter of 2007 and “has already influenced climate patterns … across many parts of the globe … including the Americas.” Although La Niña events often begin to weaken in January, this year “conditions have become slightly stronger.” The influence is strong this quarter and will perhaps continue into the third quarter of the year, thus perhaps affecting conditions for summer cruising. La Niña has sea surface tempts 1.5-2 degrees Celsius colder than average in the central and eastern Equatorial Pacific. (Adapted from materials provided by World Meteorological Organization)

There are several other complexities that enter the equation:

A larger oceanic event is occurring now – the early stages of a Pacific Decadal Oscillation (PDO) (fancy term for a basin-wide long-term (5-20 yrs) fluctuation of the Pacific Ocean that waxes and wanes between cool and warm). In the cool phase we are entering, higher than normal sea-surface heights caused by warm water form a horseshoe pattern that connects the north, west and southern Pacific, with cool water in the middle. During most of the 1980s and 1990s, the Pacific was locked in the oscillation's warm phase, during which these warm and cool regions are reversed. http://www.cdc.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/Correla ... r.test1.pl

Superposed on La Niña and the PDO is the global warming cycle, we hear so much about.

Does anyone have the information on what scientists are predicting from these oceanic and atmospheric variations that might affect our weather this summer in the NW?

A personal aside – I got into this research stuff since recent geological research has demonstrated that the earth changes shape due to these temperature variations in the ocean (crustal bulges under warm ocean, contraction under cold). Interesting to a geologist and this evolved my hypothesis that the changes in earth shape might be ‘trigger’ events for causing earthquakes in regions of crustal stress. (Just had another 4.6 quake off the Oregon coast yesterday). Whew – back to one engine or two on C-Dorys...that must be easier to discuss.

Any ideas about this summer’s conditions in Pac NW?
 
Here's one prediction from NOAA -- colder and drier in May, and normal tempts and drier than normal in June and July. Interesting speculation.

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This is where I go for that information about our region or is this what you meant. Didn't check it now but think it covers the north west and rest of the states too.

http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/p ... /index.php

For us its dry and warm. So far this spring they have been right about the dry and wrong about the warm. Much colder spring and ice on lakes thicker and lasting longer than for many years.

Jay
 
Now NOAA is saying colder and dryer in May. In early March and much later up through mid April the forecast was warmer and dryer for the upcoming weeks, months and on into the summer. With the cold continuing here right through March and on and their continuing to always predict warmer than normal coming always in the next weeks a head, that never materialized, I was beginning to think someone was stuck on colder couldn't be an option-glad they finally recognized it could.

The above was said somewhat with tongue in cheek, cause I do know there is a lot I don't know that goes into these predictions, but for our region the short and long forecast for this whole winter and spring have been far from the mark and it doesn't give me much confidence in the predictions I hear many make for the next 10 plus years.

Jay
 
Jay – I use the same site as you. I also find the farther out they try to predict the weather the less accurate it is. I check the long range forecast almost daily and it is always changing, but by the time it is a three day forecast, it is usually close. Any thing over ten days out is a guess and occasionally the 24 hour forecast is wrong. Now some climatologists are saying the really long range forecast (the next 10 years) may be cooler than normal, whatever normal is. I am not sure what a normal year is because each one is different.

Bill – check with me just before you head this way and I will look outside and give you a 100% accurate weather report for that point in time.

Looking forward to seeing you and El back in the northwest.
________
Dave dlt.gif
 
El and Bill":3i2jdvxm said:
We're with you Dave -- never did understand "normal." -- Isn't that why everybody says you -- and us -- "just ain't normal?"
Sure hope to see you this summer, if the weather just stays normal, we can chat about it.
 
I guess that "average" falls into the same category as "normal."

I remember having a teacher note that if you buy into the concept of average, that standing with one foot in a fire and the other on a piece of ice, you should feel pretty good!

Nick
"Valkyrie"
 
Bill and El,
Why is the water colder off Central America than the Bering Sea? I'm not sure I believe your chart. Please explain.
Forrest
 
forrest":1v1s7jhh said:
Bill and El,
Why is the water colder off Central America than the Bering Sea? I'm not sure I believe your chart. Please explain.
Forrest

I'll bet that the colors indicate the relative warmness or coldness from the overall average historical temperature for that particular area of the ocean, not absolute temperatures.

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
Forest -- Joe hit the nail on the head, as usual.
Al -- Thoreau is (as you might suspect) a hero of ours. And what he said about weather is spot on. We've improved in the science of meteorology somewhat since his day, but, fortunately the weather (and climate) has a wonderful way of humbling us all.

That said, it's still interesting and amusing to try to see what the latest research shows and predicts -- always with Thoreau's admonition in mind.
 
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