Just an opinion...

I guess it all depends on your comfort range. Back in the late 50's, I was in the Special Forces at Ft. Bragg, NC. I spent so much time in the swamps sleeping in a jungle hammock and when absolutely necessary, dam up a waterway and take a bath among the snakes, the C-Dory is a Cadillac in my book.

I've slept in comfort in the C-Dory at Pyramid Lake while it was snowing overnight. I've fished Lake Tahoe in the winter under extreme conditions. The C-Dory cabin is comfortable with just body heat!

In this economy, I feel lucky just to have a C-Dory.

Bill
 
JamesTXSD":6kxh4p8k said:
Now, please don't take this thread as me being "disgruntled." Not a chance - Jim B.
Click to expand...

Not to worry, you don't seem disgruntled in the least.
Something like an upgraded helm seat could be on the list of factory options. There are complications though. At least on the 22 there is the issue of leg clearence between the seat and steering wheel.
On boats especially changing one thing mandates two or more other changes.
 
I really appreciate the feedback here. Jay, you are certainly right that some limitations come with a smaller space. When we bought a Class B campervan, we paid considerably more for it than a Class C, which is bigger. It was definitely a purpose built rig and just right for our purpose at the time. But look at a Class B currently being manufactured vs one from 10 years ago - there are major differences, mostly in the ergonomics. Our Class B was smaller than our C-Dory, cost about the same, and had GREAT seats! :wink: And the new ones are even better.

Go back 10 years with the C-Dory, and they still had Sunbrella over foam on top of wood. There has been relatively little improvement. And, there is a difference between the space available in the 22 and the 25... meaning more opportunity for improvement.

When my buddy Valkyrie Nick gets back from his RVing trip, let's ask him how the ergonomics of his travel trailer compares to his C-Dory. :mrgreen:

I think my boat is great. I don't think my opinion is so important that the manufacturer can't live without it. There is room for improvement, and the best way to learn that is to ask the people who are USING these boats. And we now have another opportunity with a new manufacturer. Who knows, it might get even better?

Best wishes,
Jim
 
As the world changes I think dealers will be less likely to stock boats and they will become more built to order. To me the boat manufacturers need to offer options that would allow for as built wiring diagrams for the boat as it was built. Just think a boat supplied with a fan or fans for the helm area, a factory air conditioning option, factory supplied radar and other electronics. Factory stereo option in couple different levels. Providing seats that are comfortable seems like a no brainer. It's been said before offering boat with different trim levels would go along way to market the same boat to different types of users i.e. fisherman, cruisers, d.i.y.ers etc. The Venture series was a stab at that, it had options sales brochures didn't mention. Tilt helm, a nice helm seat, shore power, battery charger 50' shore power cord, raw water wash down, hot and cold running water with a twenty gallon tank, a padded insulated interior, ( it is quiet and cozy no clammy sweating on cool mornings) butane stove,forward facing seating, standard window coverings, soft lighting behind the curtains, live well, interior grab rail and so on.
Given the demographics of most of past and present C-Dory buyers it seems the boat manufacturers could offer a bunch more in the way of factory options tailored to a particular buyer now that they are not spitting them out by the truck load. And they could make more money doing it Tearing out some of a new interior to rig a boat costs more and is kind of
a waste of time. At least have the boat wired and plumbed for all the options so they could be purchased later if not at the time of the original purchase. Just another opinion.
D.D.
 
Jim --

Thanks for starting this thread. The C-Dory is a great boat but can be made greater. There is certainly room for the new factory owners to improve the boat and no matter how expensive the boat, there is always room for the owners to improve them as well. Absent a full custom build, a boat from the factory will never be complete. I say that having owned a Nordic Tug 32 and a Nordic Tug 37 both factory build for us but with so much more to do once they arrived.

On our C-Dory, we took bought a used 2004 with a factory option interior that omitted the water tank and system and the complete galley. The galley area was a seating area with a cabinet under it.

The boat has been beside my garage since last fall and is nearing a complete and massive rebuild. Aided by the voluminous comments on the C-Brat site about what works and what does not, it will be a very different boat when it launches in a month or so. The wet core has been fixed. Perhaps the new factory won't just shoot screws into the balsa core! It now has a complete galley with a Wallas. I installed the Wallas forward like on Wild Blue and Valkyrie so there is storage behind it. Underneath the galley are two 2 drawer wire basket sliding drawers like on Anna Leigh. There is pan storage underneath the galley shelving. We are having new upholstery done with better foam. The helm seat is gone and replaced with a Garelick helm chair Model 43130 (unfortunately, arms would not fit so they came off). The seat which I have found comfortable on other boats is mounted on a piece of forward hinged Starboard so that it folds up to make more galley space and the hinged disconnect at the pin to allow it to be easily removed entirely, both ideas I gleaned from the C-Brat site. The BayStar helm is a bit tight so I am about to order the SeaStar 20 degree wedge kit and cure that problem. I have completely new 110V and 12V electrical systems with complete wiring diagrams of each. The wiring rat's nest behind the helm is all new and neat. The 12V feed cables are larger and correctly sized for the new loads. The Bob Austin Garhauer davit went on yesterday and the high arch, already populated with 2 VHF antennas, Tri Lens radar reflector, dual air horns, radar mount, second Garhauer mounting bracket for getting the dinghy on the roof goes on this week. The list goes on and on.

I have a lifetime of boating and cruising experience and a ton of ideas that have gone into making this boat into what it has become. However, the C-Brat site is the ultimate small boat laboratory. As much as I think I know, there is so much to learn from each and every one of my fellow Brats and I have done so and the boat is so much better for all of your effort! For the new factory owners, the C-Brats site is the ultimate market research laboratory. In a completely unrehearsed manner, we figure out what changes we need, we make them, we comment on them, we revise them, and the factory can sit back and observe the real world tests. Opinionated or not, the C-Brat site provides the ultimate customer feedback experience from which the factory can pick and chose what it wants.

Will the factory improve the boat? Likely it will. Will the ultimate 22 or 25 foot cruiser come out of the factory? Not likely. The owner will take a great cruiser and make it into the ultimate cruiser for his, her or their needs. The adaptability of these boats and the C-Brat site, when added to a great base boat, are what makes for a fantastic boat unlike any other.

Go Brats!

Jim
 
Awesome thread here Jim and others who have chimed in. MCC/Jim said it pretty good in the post just prior to this one... and we have spent much time on the phone, emails and such in his transition from Nordit to C-Dory....and what fun that was too.

What a wonderful site this has been for us to share the good, the bad, the ugly...and even how we can make some things even uglier....but, more functional for just how and where we use them..... talk about it...post pics about it.... and know our administators will not delete or edit our post cause they do not agree or think we are "C-Dory Bashing.."

We are not bashing...but, sharing and improving...or...sometimes it is an improvement...sometimes we just screw something up...but hey... ain't it great!!!

When I moved to the RF-246....it was for a few reasons and "NO" responses from the C-Dory and other Ranger Tug factory...

I liked the 22Angler, but I carry so much "comfort stuff"... I wanted a 25.

Had the TC-24 and it was great...but I liked the topside of the CD25 better.. Had some input into the TC-255...and that was great to be a part of....but...they kept the same sponson height...which truly in my eyes kept it a bay boat and/or an inland water boat. I wanted the blue water stuff... and the C-Dory monohull would do that...but... I wanted larger cockpit...

I was told no,....we are not building a CD25 Angler... I asked for 2 or 3 years in a row...and 3 years in a row to the factory visit from the east coast to show I was serious about it... but...still got NOs. SO, I ordered my Rosborough....and you guest it... took it apart and put it back together with my "stuff" on it. Night and day different hull and ride than the CD25, but at a price. Much much better in the ruff stuff for sure.

Now just having visited Jeff Messmer in WA looking at the new plant set up for the RT-29... I asked again.... is there a RT-29 angler soon to be? Another NO...but hey... with the power hull extension and a wide open cockpit area on my RF-46 Custom Wheelhouse... I have more room already...minus the width of the beam only having the 8.5' beam width...and no big ol steps in the way...but, those steps are needed on the RT29... to get to things.

Yes, the blank canvas has been a great build, as was the re-build of the last "factory built" CD-18 Angler..... and during this last trip I also spent time on the waters with Dave (OLD GROWTH) in the streatched 16 to 18' C-Dory....and it was a great layout. I liked that set up better than my CD16 and better than my CD18... Cool....and I think the CD-25 would be better cut in half...and about a 2-3 foot section added....but, I do not own one of those (....humm)

While building the Heads Up RF-246 I was real shocked at how little difference the foam upgrade to just high quality foam was...particuarly on a new build when you compair the difference between lower and higher grade. IT SHOULD BE AN OPTION on our CD's...and we do not pay entry level prices for them anyway..... Building boats that were already sold and could be tweeked a little... that was truly an exciting time on the C-Brat site just watching the progress and pics sent out from folks going by the factory.... Yes.

So, my next project from what I have learned??? Who knows....but hey... it really would not be all that hard jut just take the roto zip... and go back to a "blank canvas" or gut the interior on a CD 25.... and build what ever one wants....and... ..... OK.... I am sick.... but I love these boats, I love the hours/days/weeks and the what if these boats have brought me.

Great site, great thread, great folks! Hope to see yall soon.

Byrdman...
 
C-Bill":lfa4otf8 said:
the C-Dory is a Cadillac in my book. Bill
Click to expand...

I'm with you Bill, the C-Dory beats the hell out of a foxhole with leeches and red ants.... :twisted:

Airborne, All The Way! :thup

(My wife, on the other hand, can't live without multiple pillows, and additional foam beneath her). Therefore, I sleep on the "stock" cushions with one flat pillow and she is the princess with her "Rolls Royce" luxury bedding. Since, that helps her sleep better at night, the following day is much better for me.... :wink ).

(Jay, of Hunky Dory is Airborne also and he shares similar comments... :lol: ).
 
Byrdman,

I'm with you on the 25-Angler thing. When I removed the splashwell from my 22-classic to rebuild the transom I really liked the extra cockpit space. But then I wanted more.

After giving it a lot of thought, reading several books on boat design and construction, going over my plans with a naval architect and a marine surveyor, I'm in the beginning phase of making a 26-Classic. It'll involve new wider profile gunwales scarphed on just behind the cabin to enable a sheer line width of 80-inches at the new straight transom instead of the 70-inch convex version. After creating a 24:1 scarph joints to enable a wider hull, the lapstrakes will be cut apart. An interior framework will be constructed at 12-inch stations and I'll use C-Flex to form the shape of the addition. The transom, splashwell and lazarettes will have a similar appearance to the current 22-Angler but with below the gunwale lockers from the lazarettes forward to the steps.

One fly in the ointment is finding that not only did the transom rot, but the sole core (3/4-inch Fir ply with lots of voids) got soaked (pegged the moisture meter in the aft two-feet). I found that the last two feet have deflected downward. I'm thinking that not only will the core have to come out but the glass as well.

I'm planning on making my own plywood cores for the sole and transom using epoxy and a yet-to-be-determined wood species, all vacuum laminated. Maybe some black locust... ...that oughta hold up. :crook

Anyway, I'm with you on making a C-Dory into whatever fits your need.

Tom Herrick
 
One thing that I loved about the C-Dory was that it was just a "blank canvas" for me to do my own modifications. I think the pricing is great and I'd much rather do the work/options myself. Our previous boat had a teak interior with all the bells and whistles - I was ready for a plain interior and only the whistles that I wanted to install.

I love the simplicity of the boat with the option to add any and all "yachting" options available - my affordable toy.

If I was ever to buy another C-Dory (which certainly is possible), I'd hate to see the factory add to many "standard" items that creates a higher price. I figure I can do it better than the factory and if I can't, well at least I screwed it up instead of paying someone to screw it up.
 
Tom.... Now that is for sure a project and do start a new thread and hopefully you took some pics of the first round of work... I loved it when Old Growth and SCOUT were in the project phase of their boats...

What was old can be made new....again. Just takes time, time, and guts to get started.

One of the reasons I sold my TC24 was the fact that I was about to take out a zip tool....cut the roof off...and install a different forward window section...with more of the backward window set up.... .... and, in those days, the real fiberglass workers were still way busy....and costly. Today with the slowed boat building, some folks with many years of make it or fix it experience can be found... I do miss that TC24 with twin 90s. Twin 115 Suzi's would be my power option if I were to repower one today. Those 90s just seem to be getting the hull in the making its own water mode when they peaked out with a load of folks and gear on the boat...

You go Tom... and do take pics...

Man Jim..... you started a real winner here... Aint these boats great!!

Byrdman
 
Byrdman":3pjrvsgl said:
Much much better in the ruff stuff for sure.
Click to expand...

How would you compare the seakeeping characteristics of the RF 246 and the CD 25?

Thanks,
Warren
 
Dave - My wife has only slept overnight on the boat once. Maybe she's afraid to complain about that comfort level. :(

I've been very comfortable :lol:

Bill
 
It seems like we all have the same complaints about the foam, and luckily it's an easy fix.

Foam is rated in ILD, "Indentation load deflection", and usually ranges from very soft, 11 ILD, to very firm, 65 ILD, for the first 2 numbers.
The second 2 numbers are the density in pounds per cu. ft., usually between 1.0 and 3.0 lbs/cu.ft.

My stock helm seat bottom was made up of three pieces of foam, 4" thick for the side bolsters, and 3" for the center.

Get yourself some good firm foam, I used 4526 from Rochford,.
http://www.rochfordsupply.com/product_l ... dID_E_3234
and replace the center section. The cover is just stapled on the bottom.

While you're at it, replace all of the foam that you're bottoming-out on with some quality stuff. For seat backs, go soft. For seating, go firm.

This mod is well worth it, especially if you can find the foam locally. Rochford whacks me pretty hard for shipping, but it's still way cheaper than the local fabric stores' unrated foam.

I installed adjustable armrests taken from an office chair, and while not perfect, they help a lot on long trips.
 
When we had the cushions made for the C-sofa, we had all of the foam replaced with a higher density foam. It holds up better around the edges, and feels better on the seat.
I agree that the factory foam cushions left a lot to be desired for comfort.

edit-- I still have the factory helm seat if anyone wants it.
 
I took my factory helm seat to a local upholstery shop today and got a price on replacing the bottom foam with a better grade and they gave me a price of $145 which I thought was rediculous. I know foam is expensive especially being a petroleum product but I thought this was crazy.
 
Price sounds in line with the material and labor and profit taken into consideration. Folks don't work for fee...yet.
 
Marvin,

$145 may seem like a lot, but I bet a job like that would take about two hours. $72.50 an hour might seem like a lot to pay, but that rate has to cover their overhead including shop, tools, tool maintenance, utilities, insurance, keeping abreast of the technology and materials... ...you probably know if you are or have been in business.

A close friend of mine has been a 'man of the cloth' for over 25 years, doing industrial and marine textile work. Having seen him work - and he's a no-nonsense, efficient worker - a couple of hours isn't a bad estimate of what it would take to do the job start to finish.

Though I'm more of a do-it-myself kind of guy, I tend not to skimp when I know someone can definitely do a better, more long-lasting job than I.

All that said, I'd do it myself and put it toward that new Icom VHF radio that I can't build... ..where's Heathkit when you need 'em...

Good luck, man.

Tom Herrick
 
Call around and locate somewhere you can buy foam and do it yourself. Remove the old foam, wrap the new foam in a kitchen garbage bag or similiar plastic. The plastic makes inserting the foam MUCH easier, as it slides in/around. Once you're happy with the foam position in the cover, tear the plastic and pull it out. Works on upholstery like a champ.
 
I guess what made the estimate seem high to me is you can buy a Garelick seat that looks just like the factory seat for $70 or the Garelick high back seat for $120. Of course these are probably made in China with slave labor.
 
I understand your point using the Garlick seat as your measuring stick...but you are right in that they are made in China or Mexico and you end up with the same cheap foam in them as the factory seat.

And I bet you didn't tell the local guy that you needed a price based on 25000 of them either. One design or any custom job is always going to be on the high side of the scale compared to buying off the rack.

Like was suggested before, if you have any DIY talents, then buy the foam from the local source and do the labor yourself.

When your done you might have more appreation for the craft and what it is worth at the marketplace.

Good Luck,
Mike
 
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