Is bigger better? Help!

R

Rob Dick

New member
My wife and I are in our late 50's we live in Colorado. We would like to buy a boat to use in Central California in the winter and the Pacific Nortwest in the Summer. Fishing is not a big thing with us. We have a black lab that we love that we would like to bring with us on the boat.

I have been looking at the C Dory boats for about 2 months. Each time I look at their website I am convinced that a differnt boat is right for us. Price is important to us but it really not the overriding concern; any of these boats are okay with us price wise.

The boats we are interested in are the 22 Cruiser, the 25 Cruiser, the 25 Tom Cat and the 25 Tug.

My current thoughts (and I know I may be wrong) are :

1.That the 25 Tug is not proven yet and if we buy it we should wait.
2. The 25 Cruiser, 25 Tug and Tom Cat will be more comfortable when we are in it but we may not use it as much because they may be difficult to tow and more than we want to handle especially if we are towing it long distances.
3. The above would require us to buy another vehicle and because we are trailering it long distances we would want a comfortable vehicle which would be expensive as well as a gas guzzler.
4. The 22 Cruiser would probably fit our needs but would be tight if our kids or another couple joined us. But for the difference in price you can pay for a lot of hotel rooms for guests.
4. I am also concerned but maybe for no reason that the 22 cruiser does not have a self bailing cockpit.
5 I have also looked at a 25 foot boat called the Rosborouh made in Nova Scotia whiich has tweeked my interest but I have enjoyed looking at the CBrats website and think it would be fun, and informative to be involved with this group. I am not very mechanically inclined and relatively inexperienced with motor boats. In the past I have been more interested in sailboats.

At this point I am confused! Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Rob Dick
 
ROB DICK-

ONE QUESTION AT A TIME:

The boats we are interested in are the 22 Cruiser, the 25 Cruiser, the 25 Tom Cat and the 25 Tug.

My current thoughts (and I know I may be wrong) are :

1.That the 25 Tug is not proven yet and if we buy it we should wait. TRUE.

2. The 25 Cruiser, 25 Tug and Tom Cat will be more comfortable when we are in it but we may not use it as much because they may be difficult to tow and more than we want to handle especially if we are towing it long distances.TRUE. YOU ONLY HAVE TO HAVE ONE OF THE BIGGER BOATS IF YOU NEED THE ENCLOSED HEAD/SHOWER, OR HAVE MORE THAN 2 PEOPLE REGULARLY WITH THE DOG.

3. The above would require us to buy another vehicle and because we are trailering it long distances we would want a comfortable vehicle which would be expensive as well as a gas guzzler. YOU GOT IT!


4. The 22 Cruiser would probably fit our needs but would be tight if our kids or another couple joined us. But for the difference in price you can pay for a lot of hotel rooms for guests. RIGHT ON AGAIN!

4. I am also concerned but maybe for no reason that the 22 cruiser does not have a self bailing cockpit. THAT'S WHAT BILGE PUMPS ARE FOR! EQUIP THE 22 WITH TWO PUMPS IF IT WORRYS YOU FOR AN ADDITIONAL $100-$200!

5 I have also looked at a 25 foot boat called the Rosborouh made in Nova Scotia whiich has tweeked my interest (THIS IS A MUCH BIGGER HEAVIER BOAT AGAIN, SAME PROBLEMS AS ABOVE PLUS MORE $$$ AGAIN.) but I have enjoyed looking at the CBrats website and think it would be fun, and informative to be involved with this group.(WE'D ENJOY YOUR COMPANY TOO!) I am not very mechanically inclined and elatively in experienced with motor boats. (YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ENGINEER TO ENJOY A C-DORY!) In the past I have been more interested in sailboats. (THAT'S A GOOD SIGN!!! LOTS OF SAILORS AROUND HERE!

ADDITIONALLY, I'VE HAD TWO DIFFERENT GREAT DANES ON BOARD MY 22 OVER THE PAST 8 YEARS AND THEY WERE NO PROBLEM, EVEN OVERNIGHT! FOUR PEOPLE AND A BIG DOG WILL HAVE TO BE A BIT TIGHT THOUGH DURING THE DAY!


JOE.
 
Forgive me Rob but there are a lot of us on here who love humor. Bear with me and I'll give me a response to your questions, to the best of my ability. Don't leave yourself open for a comeback.

Really?? Rob Dick asking is Bigger is Better. :shock: :lol:

Sorry I couldn't resist...

1.That the 25 Tug is not proven yet and if we buy it we should wait. These guys know what they're doing, if you want one, go for it...

2. The 25 Cruiser, 25 Tug and Tom Cat will be more comfortable when we are in it but we may not use it as much because they may be difficult to tow and more than we want to handle especially if we are towing it long distances. True, not sure what vehicle you have though, and the next question bears on that. They are interrelated.

3. The above would require us to buy another vehicle and because we are trailering it long distances we would want a comfortable vehicle which would be expensive as well as a gas guzzler. See Above...

4. The 22 Cruiser would probably fit our needs but would be tight if our kids or another couple joined us. But for the difference in price you can pay for a lot of hotel rooms for guests. If it's kids, depends on how many at a time, another couple is no problem unless it's overnight and you're not REALLY good friends.

5. I am also concerned but maybe for no reason that the 22 cruiser does not have a self bailing cockpit. No reason. That's why they have an automatic bilge pump. Lots of us have them and they've never sunk alongside a pier or underway, to the best of my knowledge.

5 I have also looked at a 25 foot boat called the Rosborouh made in Nova Scotia whiich has tweeked my interest but I have enjoyed looking at the CBrats website and think it would be fun, and informative to be involved with this group. I am not very mechanically inclined and elatively in experienced with motor boats. In the past I have been more interested in sailboats. we are sailors too, see the signature.... The Roseborough is a great boat, more expensive though and heavier. Hang around awhile and I think we can give you enough info to make an informed decision. [/color]

Sorry for the earlier pun, I just couldn't resist... :cry Welcome to the site, we wouldn't kick you out if you bought something else. Probably tease you mercilessly if you had problems though.... :thup :lol:

On Edit....Joe posted while I was trying to put Christmas into my response.... Listen to him, he knows from whence he speaks...Most of the time...

charlie
 
Boy, if there ever was a 'protypical newbie" on this site, you're it!!

:lol:

I feel safe in saying this, because "I'm it, too . . . !"

My wife and I have been to several CD gatherings, and I have been an active member of this site for about a year. The finances are moving in the right direction for a boat, but as yet it hasn't happened. Along the way, however, I (and many others) have been asking exactly the same questions.

Keep your eyes peeled for local (or reasonably close) gatherings, and don't be shy about 'inviting yourself' (respectfully, of course). You will get an overwhelming response, and offers to ride on, look at, discuss, and debate every size and shape of C-Dory available.

As you have already seen, there are many opinions out there! Many who like the CD-22 appreciate the lighter weight and simplicity. Others find towing and launching the CD-25 to be a piece of cake (although the tow vehicle does need more beef to be sure). Many have moved up from 22 to 25, although one husband who was perfectly satisfied with the 22 describes the 25-C as his "$25,000 head" -- and his wife thinks it was worth every penny! You get the picture . . .

The CD-22C is certainly the most popular, easiest to find used, and probably retains its value best for this reason. Certainly ideal for a couple, although my wife and I found it to be a little cramped for four (since we were guests on another boat). The CD-25C has a wider beam (and cabin aisle), and just 'felt right' to us. It has a lot more storage space, but of course that adds to the towing weight . . . Likewise, the head 'feels right' to my wife . . .

I better shut up at this point, since I don't even own a CD yet . . , , but as you see, you'll find lots of advice along the way. And, of course, searching the archives will illustrate how often each of these topics has been discussed in the past.

Good Luck!

Ed Gallaher
 
Rob,

We currently own a 19' boat that is similar to a C-Dory 19. We are looking for a bigger boat which is why I am on this site. One absolute requirement that I have is a boat WITHOUT the head under the v-berth. I am also in my late 50's and middle of the night visits to the head become more frequent with age. Yes you can move the porta-pot somewhere else at night, but where are you going to put it if you have guests? The cockpit isn't acceptable if there are other boats around.I also find it a pain moving the porta-pot full of water (and other stuff) twice a day. A boat with a separate enclosed head is a must for us, which means one of the 25's.

Ralph
 
Rob Dick and Charlie

Since our responses differ substantially only on question one, I'll explain why I said that-

"That the 25 Tug is not proven yet and if we buy it we should wait. TRUE. "

My experience has always been that the first few boats of a particular new model from a manufacturer were kind of production protototypes wherein the builder was still working the lay-up and equipment outfitting issues out.

How long it takes to refine the finished product depends on the complexity of the boat and the intensity of the effort by the builder.

In racing small dinghy sailboats, we never wanted to have any of about the first four to six boats of a design, feeling that after that the problems wouild get ironed out.

On a trawler or a tug with a much more complex set of systems, it could be much longer. If you doubt that, ready the "Thataway" saga of TC 255 hull #39!

Now admittedly Bob is a pretty throrough and demanding customer as well as knowledgeable as anyone here, but because of that you can get a complete evaluation of the product, and that thread is a great read and a realistic story.

I have absolutely nothing but respect for C-Dory and C-Ranger, but my recommendation is to wait awhile on a new model until the production kinks are ironed out.

Joe.
 
My wife and I have owned a large trawler (Monk 36) and a Rosborough 245. Now we own a 22ft C-Dory. We have owned the 22 for two seasons and have not cruised as much as we would have liked. However the time we have spent on the C-Dory has proven that small an simple can be very nice. Let me explain: simple portapotty, no hot water system to worry about, the water pump at your foot works every time. the cooler chest with ice never runs down the battery. I could go on and on, but, I hope you get the picture.

We travel on the boat with just two of us and our cat, Mr. Grey. The Honda 90 moves the boat to about 30 MPH but cruises at 18 to 20 and just sips fuel. Be sure to order trim tabs and the cockpit flooring. We get by with only one bilge pump even in heavy down pours.

The choice my be decided by how heavy you wish to tow. Check this out carefully add the expected weights for trailer and all equipment plus fuel and water. We use a single axel trailer and our towed weight with full fuel as some equipment is 4300 pounds. We use a jeep Grand Cherokee rated for 5000 pounds towing and it does OK.

Our Rosborough was a wonderful boat and would handle rough water very well. But the towed weight with fuel and water was close to 9000 pounds.

Just my thoughts.

Fred and Pat Messerly
Red Lion, Pa.

PS: You have chossen good brands-now pick the right size for you and your style of boating and travel. Be sure to read the Halcyon web site. El and Bill cruise with four on a 22 footer. I don't think the big dog will be a problem.
 
I don't know all,,,, maybe better living through chemistry? The reason I say this is because I have had the pleasant opportunity to "thump" a lot of hulls in the search for the PERFECT boat. Only one problem... I am VERY married and my wants, whishes, and dreams of the perfect boat only make it half way to fruition. The wife hold the trump card... do you have a trump card to let you know whats important to her?

Bubba.... get a fix on that and you are 90% home.

PS.... this is the best site on boaters and real boating that I have seen... people are friendly, helpful, and we always got opinions. It is up to you and yours to weed through the experience provided on this site. The only dues are ... you have to give us your opinion and findings on what ever you settle on.

Good Luck! Butch
 
I think we all went through that same decision ....... I really wanted the 25' C-Dory... not only for the shower but the hot water heater and the extra space....
My wife was willing, but said, lets buy a 22' and in three or four years if we still want a 25 we'll trade up. Great Woman !!!
I am really pleased we did that... as I love our 22' cruiser...I thought I would hate the porta-pot but it really is no problem... and I have towed all over the country.... I found out that I really would not like towing the 25' as most of the time I am alone or with the dog....and the 22' is perfect.. I did not want to buy a larger truck...I like the Chev. pickup I have now...and it tows the C-Dory and gives excellent fuel milage...
The 25' requires larger motors...and carrys lots more fuel...so it would be more expensive to travel long distances.....

Overall... I think I will keep the 22' ....my wife, dog and I are very comfortable aboard...we never have a problem towing and the things we thought were "must have" were not really needed...
We did have delta canvas made for the back, that gives us lots more outside room...

Joel
SEA3PO
 
Welcome aboard, Rob!

You are on a journey that many of us have traveled... which boat will best fit MY particular needs? I came into this knowing that I wanted the 22. All it took was one look at the 22 and 25 side by side, and the Blonde said, "We want the 25."

OK. :wink:

Realistically, you will use the boat as a couple. And unless you get a boat with two cabins, it has to be REALLY close friends/family to share the space on any small boat. If you are both comfortable aboard, it will be easier for you to continue to use the boat... if you haven't spent a lot of time camping, then a boat without a shower, hot water, a fridge, an enclosed head, and adequate storage space will always feel like a compromise. The romantic ideal of "let's get a boat and go cruising," often doesn't work for people because one or the other misses the comforts of home.

How many people could you share a tent with? And a potty in a corner of the tent? And a shower from a bag just outside the tent? If any of these questions gives you concerns, then one of the bigger boats is going to be better (and still may not be enough). My wife and I worked together for nearly 30 years; traveled from coast to coast to coast in motorhomes; around each other 24/7; motorcycle camped; and had a series of sailboats. The thing we notice most about the difference between the 25 and the 22 isn't just the head - it's the "elbow room". We can move around each other in the aisle... and that goes a LONG way towards harmony aboard.

Yes, we bought a heavier duty tow vehicle just for the boat - a diesel pick-up (and we have never been pick-up owners before). The combination tows like a dream. At this level of investment, you don't want a "weak link" that will diminish the pleasure of USING the boat.

As long time sailors, launching and retrieving the boat is a piece of cake. I have said this here before, but I almost feel guilty about how easy this boat is. We bought it to travel and use; we have it equipped so that it works for us. We enjoy the ride, the power, the comfort, and the seaworthiness. The inside helm is a blessing, whether it's to get out of the cold or the hot sun. The view from any place in the cabin is wonderful (no problem for the one doing galley duty to be missing the scenery).

One last thing: I suggest you not buy a boat based on the comfort for kids or friends... most often, they are not going to spend extended time with you. If they are that much into boating, they will have their own boat. And if they aren't, there will always be an excuse for why they won't be joining you. There are plenty of resorts or hotels with marinas nearby for those occasions when you need more overnighting capability.

I am delighted with our choice of the 25. I would have been delighted with the 22... but the fact that my wife is happy aboard the 25 makes ALL the difference.

Good luck with your decisions. This forum is the place to discover, ask questions, and make new friends. And no matter which boat on your short list that you choose, the people that you'll meet because of that boat makes it just the perfect size! :D

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
Joe, Sea Wolf Said: "My experience has always been that the first few boats of a particular new model from a manufacturer were kind of production protototypes wherein the builder was still working the lay-up and equipment outfitting issues out. "

This is in regard to the C-Ranger Tug Comment...

Joe, I agree with you completely, but the first few, and maybe a dozen or more will be long delivered before he orders or gets a boat... He probably won't even be in the top 25! He may even be behind me....Hence, he'll have the advantage of all the learning curve of the first owners/buyers.

Therefore my comment to "go for it".

Charlie
 
I'll second Joel's opinion. I have the 25, absolutely love it and no problems whatsoever towing with my '03 Expedition (that year the vehicle was redesigned and has a larger tow rating than previous)--and I might add, I actually enjoy towing it!

But...I and many others with C-Dorys have been boating and towing for many years, I've had 15 ocean-capable, trailerable boats over 30+ years and have learned A LOT about what works and doesn't for towing--still learning. The CD25 is a great boat as well as the others, but might be a handful and actually a downer for a beginner to jump into. The CD22 will fit 90%+ of your needs, you can also trade up later as Joel and Susan said.

My 2c.
 
Rob Dick,
Welcome and thanks for starting this discussion. It may amuse you to hear that I was prepared to get a 25 since the head would be a comfort to my wife. She looked at the head on the 25 and looked at the porta potty on the 22 and declared that neither one was acceptable! Don't waste your money on that bathroom! My admiral is a true landlubber.
The porta potty has slowly won us over. It is low maintainance and low tech. It does go into the cockpit at night and the camper back provides privacy. It is not an issue for us. I was prepared to invest in a substantial tow vehicle to haul the 25 around but was able to save considerably without the requirement of the heavier tow. I enjoy maintaining my boat but am grateful that it requires little maintainance.
We occasionally use B&B's but have come to enjoy the simplicity of staying aboard and find the absence of luxuries refreshing. When destinations allow we shop around for marinas with clean and appealing facilities. In the end, what pleases you and your admiral is the best choice.
Mike 'Levity"
 
uncleralph123":11c2v736 said:
One absolute requirement that I have is a boat WITHOUT the head under the v-berth. I am also in my late 50's and middle of the night visits to the head become more frequent with age.
Ralph
Click to expand...

In all honesty, what's wrong with a wide mouth peanut butter jar in the middle of the night? :wink
 
Rob-
The wife and I did the same thing you are doing just a year ago. We went through the factory and then to the boat show in Seattle. Up until then I had been perfectly happy with my 22' boston whaler cutty cab.
The spousal unit informed me at the boat show that the 22 cruiser was what she wanted, and if I wanted her to go with me on more than just nice days we had better order one.
We only have about 80 hours on the main engine, we have been on several overnight cruises and one five day trip. The porta pottie has not been a issue with either of us and after being raised around much larger boats I don't care if I ever have to put up with another marine head.
For the two of us and our lab (we only take him once in a while) we have plenty of room.
We have taken several day trips with friends on board, but no overnighters yet. To do this you must be goooood friends.
We have been on two 25 cruisers at the dock (Wild Blue and TyBoo)
they are very nice and I'm sure I could get very used to one.....until you get to the gas dock. Thats when I love my 22!
 
DaveS":2ulavecb said:
In all honesty, what's wrong with a wide mouth peanut butter jar in the middle of the night? :wink
Click to expand...

Come on, Dave, try to keep up - he wasn't talking about needing a snack in the middle of the night, he's talking about having to pe... oh, nevermind. :crook

A friend of ours used to talk about having a can-o-pee on his sailboat... guess he wasn't talking about a bimini, huh? :wink:
 
I'll pitch my 25 cents worth in here. All of these boats (including the 25 tug) are basically two person plus one (?) boats. The Tug is the most elequent--but the small aft cabin is too small for more than one person or two children. l The only other way to sleep more is on the saloon table--and that is a pain.

The 22 and 25 are very similar--a little more room in the 25--but the head is enclosed and there is a shower.

Don't worry about the non self bailing cockpit. The Banks dory rowed across the Atlantic wasn't self bailing!

We went with the TC 255 for several reasons--first the ride, higher speed in rougher water. Second the ease of getting into the bunk. We haven't slept in the bunk in the 25--but is is similar to the 22--slightly easier to get into... and finally the more room/and enclosed head/shower. We do well with portipotties--but moving things in and out of the foreward cabin was a bit. With the TC 255 there is a lot more storage place for my "stuff", cameras etc.

As for dogs--we have traveled about 100,000 miles on the water with dogs, mostly labs. We used a pet step on the 22--and could use one on the 25 and the TC 255 (we are down to a 22 # dog now). A lab on any of these boats is not a problem.

We had a little over 3 hours use of the 25 Ranger--and I don't see any basic problems (I did post our review and speeds etc on that thread). The issue is how fast do you want to run the boat? Second--I think that the 25 Ranger will be the most difficult to trailer of the bunch. I have no idea if a larger engine will be put in that boat--but that would not keep me from buying one, if I wanted that style of boat. It will never have the speed of the 25 or the TC 255.

Trailering--by far the 22 is the easiest boat I have owned to trailer. We used a Honda Pilot, a 3/4 Ton van and a 30 foot RV.
So far towing TC 255 is fine, but we need a little steeper ramp. So far that has not been a problem. We purchased a 2001 Diesel Excursion with 135K miles for $12,000- This is a vehicle we only use if we need to carry a lot of people or tow the boat. The costs of keeping this vehicle is not high. I suspect that many of the other larger boat owners also have trucks they use primarly for towing the boat.

There is a Rosobrough owners group--and I moniter it. These are good boats--but a bit different than the C Dory in style. Many folks run these like trawers with the smaller engines.

Get some time to both ride on each of the boats--and spend a couple of hours on each boat alone and just see "how it fits". Talk out potential problem areas, look for solutions in these threads--and enjoy! You cannot go wrong with any of these.
 
Rob --
We are in Lakewood, CO most of this winter. If you have any plans to come over Denver way, drop an e-mail and lets all have a lunch together. Your wife and El can talk about life aboard a CD-22 and we'll both try to answer any questions you have about towing from CO to the NW (or elsewhere) and the joys of living aboard a C-Dory.
If you have done any reading on our Halcyon Days website, you know we have trailered the our Halcyon tens of thousands of miles and cruised her for 22,500 miles. This past summer we cruised with our son and grandson for five weeks in Alaska, and it was an unforgettable joy. We have also cruised with our daughter and her two little girls along the Rideau Canal in Canada and the St. Johns River in FL -- they still talk about Halcyon as though the boat was one of the family.
You probably also know from our site that we are firm believers that the smallest boat on which you can be comfortable is the best -- NOT the largest boat. Small has so many advantages that we don't want to begin on that and you can read about it on our website -- but briefly, easier to haul, store, maneuver, launch and the shallow draft takes you to places others can't reach -- and she's cheaper to haul and cruise.
Come on over for a visit -- el and bill
 
Lots of wonderful ideas and thoughts to sift through here!

One last thought I'll offer is that if you start with a 22, you're taking the safest route.

If it works out fine in the long run, that's the end of the problem/search.

If it doesn't, it will be easier to resell and move up than if you decide you don't need all that bigger boat and have to move back down.

This is true because the 22 is much easier to resell simply because it is more affordable to most and fits most folks needs.

Secondly, with the 22 you're less likely to be involved with a loan that will be difficult to back out of.

You can ignore this aspect if you pay cash up front, but the 22 will still be easier to sell or trade in on a larger model than vis'-a-vis'.

(Plus you won't have bought a larger tow vehicle.)

Just another two cents!

Joe.
 
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