At the head of the V Berth is a hole where the wire for the Port Starboard light runs. This is the location of the leak. Twice I have removed the P/S housing on deck and applied silicon on the black washer the light housing sits on. The leak is 3 or 4 shots glasses worth not just drops. Well I decided not to fill the hole where the wire runs thru because I think the water would just collect where I can't see. Ok crew members help me out because putting plastic over my feet is not the way to go ok.
Interior Leak in 16 Cruiser
- Thread starter jimicliff
- Start date
As I remember it, the bi-color light fixture is on the foredeck of the 16.
Based on your symptoms, I'll make a guess:
1) There was a slight leak for some reason.
2) It has now wetted some of the deck core around the fixture.
3) So now it's not possible to get a good seal (because the deck is no longer rigid to compression there).
4) And silicone is not a very good bedding compound anyway.
I may be completely wrong, since I can't even see it - hence just a guess.
What I would do:
1) Remove fixture completely and poke around to see what you have.
2a) If core is dry, dig enough out to fill surrounding area with thickened epoxy (this will protect the core, plus give you a solid surface to fasten to).
2b) If the core is wet, dig out as much as you need to to get to dry material, and then proceed (method somewhat dependent on how bad it was).
3) Clean off the silicone as well as you can (it leaves a contaminant that is very hard to remove and keeps things from sticking, so check by seeing if water beads on the surface - if so, keep cleaning/scraping).
4) Re-bed the fixture with butyl, polyurethane, polyether, or polysulfide.
A last note is that if the fixture was fastened into the deck with "pointy screws," well, that never really gives me a happy feeling. It does work, but...
At minimum I would put pointy screws back but into epoxy. But what I usually prefer to do is one of two things:
i) Fill with solid thickened epoxy and tap for a machine screw
or
ii) If you don't mind nuts on the underside, drill through the new epoxy and use a machine screw and nut to fasten.
Again, this is just my thoughts without seeing it, but based on working on other boats.
Sunbeam
PS: I just re-read and noticed where you said you caulked on top of/next to the fixture base. That never really works in my experience. I see lots of people doing (and recommending) it, so I don't blame anyone who thinks that's the way to go (I've even seen it in "how to" videos). But it's generally either a temporary fix or not even a fix at all. Better to remove fixture, clean surfaces, and "bed" (i.e. caulk) under the flange (there is usually a flange of some sort). Then you clean around it after you are done so 99% of the compound is invisibly under the flange (i.e. no big "bead" around the outside, which doesn't usually do much except get dirty). So, there is the chance that the fixture just needs a proper re-bedding (but I'd do the core treatment while in there anyway).
Based on your symptoms, I'll make a guess:
1) There was a slight leak for some reason.
2) It has now wetted some of the deck core around the fixture.
3) So now it's not possible to get a good seal (because the deck is no longer rigid to compression there).
4) And silicone is not a very good bedding compound anyway.
I may be completely wrong, since I can't even see it - hence just a guess.
What I would do:
1) Remove fixture completely and poke around to see what you have.
2a) If core is dry, dig enough out to fill surrounding area with thickened epoxy (this will protect the core, plus give you a solid surface to fasten to).
2b) If the core is wet, dig out as much as you need to to get to dry material, and then proceed (method somewhat dependent on how bad it was).
3) Clean off the silicone as well as you can (it leaves a contaminant that is very hard to remove and keeps things from sticking, so check by seeing if water beads on the surface - if so, keep cleaning/scraping).
4) Re-bed the fixture with butyl, polyurethane, polyether, or polysulfide.
A last note is that if the fixture was fastened into the deck with "pointy screws," well, that never really gives me a happy feeling. It does work, but...
At minimum I would put pointy screws back but into epoxy. But what I usually prefer to do is one of two things:
i) Fill with solid thickened epoxy and tap for a machine screw
or
ii) If you don't mind nuts on the underside, drill through the new epoxy and use a machine screw and nut to fasten.
Again, this is just my thoughts without seeing it, but based on working on other boats.
Sunbeam
PS: I just re-read and noticed where you said you caulked on top of/next to the fixture base. That never really works in my experience. I see lots of people doing (and recommending) it, so I don't blame anyone who thinks that's the way to go (I've even seen it in "how to" videos). But it's generally either a temporary fix or not even a fix at all. Better to remove fixture, clean surfaces, and "bed" (i.e. caulk) under the flange (there is usually a flange of some sort). Then you clean around it after you are done so 99% of the compound is invisibly under the flange (i.e. no big "bead" around the outside, which doesn't usually do much except get dirty). So, there is the chance that the fixture just needs a proper re-bedding (but I'd do the core treatment while in there anyway).
Molly Brown
Member
Hey Jimi, if you don't get her fixed by the time of the CBrat gathering at Hontoon Island, I'm positive we can get you 20 ways to repair that pesky leak :lol:
If the light case is plastic/nylon composiion, the best sealant for plastic is Boatlife "Lifeseal" This is a blend of polyurethane/silicone. Many of the other sealants (such-as 3M 5200/4000 etc are not recommended for plastics.)
The sealalnt needs to be all around the periphery of the fitting, and well beded. You may have to also seal the area where the wire goes thru the deck, since not all of the nav light fittings are fully watertight (even though they should be). ,I would agree with much of what Sunbeam says, but with this type of fitting I probably would not use thru bolts to hold it in place.
After looking at your boat, I might consider moving the red/green navigation light. It appears that it is hiden behind the anchor, the way it is set back on the fore deck. There is also some light flare on the deck as well as reflection from the pulpit railings. There are two good options: One would be the center of the bow railing (above the anchor. You would have to re-route the wiring up thru one of the legs of the pulpit. I have done this on a number of boats. The other option is to put separate running lights, one on each side of the cabin house. This is where they are in the C Dory 22, it puts them thru an uncored part of the structure, out of the way of the deck, and better visual for other boats.
The sealalnt needs to be all around the periphery of the fitting, and well beded. You may have to also seal the area where the wire goes thru the deck, since not all of the nav light fittings are fully watertight (even though they should be). ,I would agree with much of what Sunbeam says, but with this type of fitting I probably would not use thru bolts to hold it in place.
After looking at your boat, I might consider moving the red/green navigation light. It appears that it is hiden behind the anchor, the way it is set back on the fore deck. There is also some light flare on the deck as well as reflection from the pulpit railings. There are two good options: One would be the center of the bow railing (above the anchor. You would have to re-route the wiring up thru one of the legs of the pulpit. I have done this on a number of boats. The other option is to put separate running lights, one on each side of the cabin house. This is where they are in the C Dory 22, it puts them thru an uncored part of the structure, out of the way of the deck, and better visual for other boats.
AstoriaDave
New member
+1 on the advice to prepare the area under and near the light before proceeding, as well as advice on sealant choice.
I happen to like the tap your own threads approach through a solid thickness of epoxy, and have used it many times. Easier than it sounds, and a little sealant on the surface is all you need to prevent water intrusion down the threaded hole. In lieu, Sunbeam's suggestion of a machine screw and nut is a good one.
Also, stainless blind nuts are available from McMaster- Carr, and are a good choice in spots where it is easy to lose track of a nut when replacing the fixture or changing a bulb. Likely the pronged ones will set OK in the underside of the deck. If you don't want to prong the underside, some 4200 or 5200 will anchor the ones without prongs.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-stee ... ts/=urm7u3
I happen to like the tap your own threads approach through a solid thickness of epoxy, and have used it many times. Easier than it sounds, and a little sealant on the surface is all you need to prevent water intrusion down the threaded hole. In lieu, Sunbeam's suggestion of a machine screw and nut is a good one.
Also, stainless blind nuts are available from McMaster- Carr, and are a good choice in spots where it is easy to lose track of a nut when replacing the fixture or changing a bulb. Likely the pronged ones will set OK in the underside of the deck. If you don't want to prong the underside, some 4200 or 5200 will anchor the ones without prongs.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-stee ... ts/=urm7u3
C Dory buddies thank you, all of the info that helps my mind function better on solving a problem. I have not taken the light housing off yet but I'm pretty sure if I hold it upside down it will not hold water. Any idea where I can get the same housing that came with the boat it's an 04 cruiser ? If not I think I can craft a seal, Hell I used Marine Tex to fasten a caviar jar to the top of my plastic anchor light to hold my new LED, I did 800 miles in two weeks in August and it didn't shake off and it looks ok.
I replaced my anchor light with an LED so I know I have good visibility, I also have a spotlight on the roof wich I replaced this year with the same model that came with the boat, just wanted you to know I use the boat contiously and am very careful night and day when I'm underway. Dr Bob I really like your idea about running the Port & Sarboard on either side like a 22 but I'm too damn lazy for that, I REALLY like the lights installed in the bow sprint rail but I definately don't want to spend the money for that, I'd rater spend that money on fuel.Thank you again dear friends I'll let you know what I did soon.
I replaced my anchor light with an LED so I know I have good visibility, I also have a spotlight on the roof wich I replaced this year with the same model that came with the boat, just wanted you to know I use the boat contiously and am very careful night and day when I'm underway. Dr Bob I really like your idea about running the Port & Sarboard on either side like a 22 but I'm too damn lazy for that, I REALLY like the lights installed in the bow sprint rail but I definately don't want to spend the money for that, I'd rater spend that money on fuel.Thank you again dear friends I'll let you know what I did soon.
C Dory buddies thank you, all of the info that helps my mind function better on solving a problem. I have not taken the light housing off yet but I'm pretty sure if I hold it upside down it will not hold water. Any idea where I can get the same housing that came with the boat it's an 04 cruiser ? If not I think I can craft a seal, Hell I used Marine Tex to fasten a caviar jar to the top of my plastic anchor light to hold my new LED, I did 800 miles in two weeks in August and it didn't shake off and it looks ok.
I replaced my anchor light with an LED so I know I have good visibility, I also have a spotlight on the roof wich I replaced this year with the same model that came with the boat, just wanted you to know I use the boat contiously and am very careful night and day when I'm underway. Dr Bob I really like your idea about running the Port & Sarboard on either side like a 22 but I'm too damn lazy for that, I REALLY like the lights installed in the bow sprint rail but I definately don't want to spend the money for that, I'd rater spend that money on fuel.Thank you again dear friends I'll let you know what I did soon.
I replaced my anchor light with an LED so I know I have good visibility, I also have a spotlight on the roof wich I replaced this year with the same model that came with the boat, just wanted you to know I use the boat contiously and am very careful night and day when I'm underway. Dr Bob I really like your idea about running the Port & Sarboard on either side like a 22 but I'm too damn lazy for that, I REALLY like the lights installed in the bow sprint rail but I definately don't want to spend the money for that, I'd rater spend that money on fuel.Thank you again dear friends I'll let you know what I did soon.
I would check Perko first. Reason I say that is many of the 22's have Perko nav lights (mine does, for both the bi-colors and the all-around).
Another possible idea for a bi-color is that they make single housings that hang down from the center of the pulpit (don't know if that would be in your line of sight or not, but as a plus it is far enough forward to not reflect back at you from the pulpit legs). They are typically black plastic and "hold" the bi-color fixture; then you can drill a hole in a pulpit leg (if desired) and run the wire up inside the pulpit. Let me see if I can dig up an image...
This is kind of small, but gives you the idea. The one I'm thinking of would have half green/half blue. It's possible this would end up in your way - not sure how your foredeck "works" of course. I wouldn't mind if mine did not reflect off the pulpit legs (mine are mounted on the cabinsides).
Another possible idea for a bi-color is that they make single housings that hang down from the center of the pulpit (don't know if that would be in your line of sight or not, but as a plus it is far enough forward to not reflect back at you from the pulpit legs). They are typically black plastic and "hold" the bi-color fixture; then you can drill a hole in a pulpit leg (if desired) and run the wire up inside the pulpit. Let me see if I can dig up an image...
This is kind of small, but gives you the idea. The one I'm thinking of would have half green/half blue. It's possible this would end up in your way - not sure how your foredeck "works" of course. I wouldn't mind if mine did not reflect off the pulpit legs (mine are mounted on the cabinsides).
Sunbeam":xvo44fuf said:
I suspect that Sunbeam knows that bicolor navigation lights are green on the starboard side and red on the port side.
Jim, it is not only about being "Seen" because you have a white all around steaming light, but it is for the orientation of other boats, that it is necessary to have the fully legal red and green navigation lights visible in the forward 112.5 degrees to each side respectively. The other boater needs to determine which way your boat is going, and if he or you are the stan on vessel. This is a safety factor--and the cost is minimal to upgrade the navigation lights. Also as I pointed out there is deck flare and refections from the bow pulpit railings which affect your night vision.
Here's what I've done, I found the Port Starboard fixture at Perko and Lifeseal from some marine supplyer, I'll sand silicon off deck then take a pencil and outline the fixture and apply Lifeseal. I'll put a little Lifeseal on the screw threads. When its cured I'll hit it with the spray nozzle and see if it works. When it comes to fixing leaks drilling more and deeper holes isn't the first thing I think but I understand the logic that was explained to me.
Sunbeam thank you for the detailed instructions, Molly Brown I'll see you at Hoontoon, Dr Bob I and everyone else thank you for your continuing education. Lizzie I like that tall fixture but I climb out of the forward hatch too much and I know I'd unintentionally break it off one day playing with the anchor or nude sun bathing. "Enjoy the remainder of your stay in the Magic Kingdom".
Sunbeam thank you for the detailed instructions, Molly Brown I'll see you at Hoontoon, Dr Bob I and everyone else thank you for your continuing education. Lizzie I like that tall fixture but I climb out of the forward hatch too much and I know I'd unintentionally break it off one day playing with the anchor or nude sun bathing. "Enjoy the remainder of your stay in the Magic Kingdom".
jimicliff":3ixp6vum said:
Just to be clear, the pole and fixture slip into and out of the base, the same as the 360 white light on the roof. Also, we used to do a lot of night boating on the Delaware River As Dr. Bob noted above, the importance of visible red and green nav. lights on a dark night can't be overstated. You do not want to ever see both the red and green on another boat at the same time.
jimicliff":1ovvcpw4 said:
A note which is that I would not sand the silicone. Reason is that will just sort of "grind" the contamination (further) in. It's hard enough to get rid of as is. I would scrape. You may have to take a thin layer of gelcoat off the top to get rid of it entirely - it is very pernicious :amgry I throw away any razor blades or etc. that I have used to scrape silicone. (And then don't let any more silicone within a mile of my boat!) But that's just me :wink
There are several products which will help to remove silicone: DSR-5, DeBond 2000, 3M Adhesive remover. I have also had good luck with scraping with a plastic spatchla or sharp single edge razor blade and then using one of the Mr. Clean Magic Erraser. Don't cut into the gel coat with the blade.
I would agree with Sunbeam; don't use sandpaper.
I would not worry too much about the silicone residue with the Boat Life. Getting the worse of the silicone is enough. If you were going to paint the boat with 2 part LP, then that is a whole other story--and sanding might be your only recourse.
I would agree with Sunbeam; don't use sandpaper.
I would not worry too much about the silicone residue with the Boat Life. Getting the worse of the silicone is enough. If you were going to paint the boat with 2 part LP, then that is a whole other story--and sanding might be your only recourse.
I took the light off and the old silicon cleaned off well with a five in one tool and WD 40, then I cleaned off WD with paint thinner. Dont see how to get bulb out of fixture yet but I I'm guessing you must squeeze or pry the Red & Green lenses off right? New light is on way and I'm sure the instructions on how to change the bulb will be in the package. Yall are really nice friends thanks again, I'll let you know when my stuff arrives how my installation works out. It's only two wires & two screws this isn't rocket science.
I took the light off and the old silicon cleaned off well with a five in one tool and WD 40, then I cleaned off WD with paint thinner. Dont see how to get bulb out of fixture yet but I I'm guessing you must squeeze or pry the Red & Green lenses off right? New light is on way and I'm sure the instructions on how to change the bulb will be in the package. Yall are really nice friends thanks again, I'll let you know when my stuff arrives how my installation works out. It's only two wires & two screws this isn't rocket science.