Interesting question - C-Dory Warranty

As I've said before, let's hope the Wright Bros run a good profitable business. All they bought, from what I read here, is the molds and design. They owe us nothing, and as a profitable business, I would guess that that's what we'll get, no matter how much we think that it would be good for "their" business. Remember, we're looking it as C-dory owners with a warranty and an axe to grind.

In addition, I've not heard of a lot of problems with these boats. They're simply made, appear sturdy and do well. We brought the boat up from Ucluelet to Tofino (obviously uphill, why would you want to go downhill?) and it dropped off a few waves but did well. Go out enjoy the boat and deal with the problems as they come up. Pat, what has gone wrong with your boat?

Now that I've sorted out the C-Dory problem, why doesn't Navman continue their warranty? My fuel meter just crapped out.

Boris
 
I admit that I just skimmed through most of this thread. Having said that, I have just one observation, and I'm no buisnessman, for what it's worth. Many companies change hands over the years. Look at Volvo, Jaguar, and some other car companies. When they are sold to a new owner, I assume the new owners honor warranty even though "they" didn't build the cars. Am I wrong here? Anyone have experience with this?

In the firearms world, Smith & Wesson, Winchester, Browning, and Remington have all changed hands over the years and warranties are honored.

Just thinking out loud.

Rick
 
I think the difference is size. You are talking world players, not a mom and pop boat building operation. Not being derogatory, just realistic. In the grand scheme of things it is on a mom and pop scale.
 
With regards to Jaguar and Smith&Wesson, I'd assume they bought a business. India certainly did when they bought Jaguar. Apparently, what the Wright Bros bought was molds and a design. There's got to be a difference. Note that fluid marine bought the C-Dory business.

If you buy a fluid marine C-Dory, you'd better work out what guarantee there is with the dealer. And that's better than arguing with seasport

By the way, would you buy a Jaguar without an iron clad guarantee? They're now owned by India, and weren't too dependable before that. I say that as a former English car/bike owner who went through the era when England went out of business.

boris
 
Fond memories of english cars and bikes. MG's with all their inherent electrical problems, triumphs and bs'ers with their peculiarities. But back in those days they were very sexy. The ultra reliable stuff like honda and toyota and yamaha just took a lot of the adventure out of our sporting enjoyment.
 
I am a wannabee C-Dory owner. At least I used to be before this latest situation. I had made a post a while back about the rub rail problem and took some heat for it in a private email, the author of which I will not divulge. I see now that at least some people are admitting there are some quality issues with C Dory, the fine boat that they are. Unless you know the full details of Seasport's purchase, it can be difficult to come to a conclusion. For example, let's say Seasport wanted to set up an escrow account for warranty work. That would have been great for all the owners with existing warranties and good for Seasport too. Maybe C Dory said no, forget about that, we would rather opt for the max, take the money and run, sort of like the Wall St crowd , or no deal. My point is you have to know the whole story. Maybe somebody in the know will fill us in, maybe the deal was they can not talk about the deal. There are other boats out there, maybe I don't want a C Dory anymore. But I really do feel for you people out there, you paid for a warranty and they did not deliver. And since this situation didn't happen overnight they knew they would not deliver.
 
Boris - you are mistaken on that part factually. The Fluid Marine deal was an asset sale, just like the sale to Sea Sport, not a purchase of the business. That is all a buyer will ever do when the seller is in trouble! The difference is, Fluid Marine, for the most part, DID honor the Reynolds' built C-Dory warranties. And probably would have done fine if not for the Great Recession.

It is of course Jeff Lindhout's call. I agree he does not have to pay any attention to what I think is good for his business - his money is on the line, not mine and he will be the one who ends up with the consequences, good or bad. I think Da Nag's post is far more persuasive to me than my good friend Jim B's. But opinions are like A-holes, as it has been said: everybody's got one!

And, except for the one or two horrible cases that are bound to arise, like the replacement of CatyMae's and Fishtales Roger's entire boats, this is probably a tempest in a teapot.




journey on":2g17gc3y said:
Note that fluid marine bought the C-Dory business.


boris
Click to expand...
 
Well, just today I had a warranty issue with my 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid. It had to do with the A/C which cools the electric engine batteries. My warranty is for 3 years/36000 miles. Believe it or not, the car has 35,600 miles and the 3 years runs out on July 17! It makes warranty issues up close and personal. Today is my lucky day.
By the way, I had an English Ford (Anglia) which I bought new for $1500 in the 50's. I loved it but it was the biggest piece of junk ever made.
 
Well this issue seems to have been decided now. Sea Sport will not warrant any boats that were not built by them. Hopefully they can work something out with the dealers to cover current stock. I'd imagine no dealer would want to order more boats from Sea Sport if they still have Fluid Marine built boats in stock, and they'll have trouble selling them for a decent amount of money if nobody is willing to warrant them.

The real problem I see in all of this is the loss of trust in the company for future buyers. Now that C-Dory has been turned over 3 times in the past several years, it seems like just a matter of time until it gets sold again. If I was looking to buy a C-Dory boat today, I would assume that the Sea Sport warranty is worthless, and would be hesitant to write a check for 60 grand. How long will it be until Sea Sport passes the brand along? Or worse, scraps it completely? And then what happens to my warranty? Judging by this case, it will be worthless, and nobody will stand behind their work.

I guess I see a warranty not just as an assurance that I won't have large out-of-pocket expenditures to fix problems caused by the manufacturer, but also as a measure of the faith that a company puts into its products. Not honoring the warranty of a year old C-Dory shows me that Sea Sport doesn't have much faith in the products that were built in prior years. Personally I don't think this is a good way to treat customers. The last thing Sea Sport wants to do is alienate current customers, who are perhaps the most effective sales tool available to them.

Hopefully I won't have any hull problems. It would be a real bummer to spend a bunch of money on a new boat only to not be able to use it for a while because of defects from the manufacturer that require expensive repairs.
 
Seeing Sea Sport's "we didn't build them" position - Never say Never, but I'd NEVER purchase a boat from Sea Sport. If they purchased just the molds and changed the name, I'd completely understand. Having me help sell more boats by having the C-Dory decal on my boat and at the same time losing 4+ years of a warranty - not good.

If I really cared, I'd pull the C-Dory decal from our boat. I won't do that but I certainly won't promote Sea Sport or the new C-Dory's.
 
Dang you guys are hard on a company that is looking to expand in bad economic times, continue the product line that I thought most of us love(d), and all of this before they build the first boat? Where's the fault for SS? They bought the assets of a boat builder that apparently WANTED to sell said assets. Some folks lost a warranty that was issued by the "PREVIOUS" builder! I fail to see the fault in SS!
I didn't loose a warranty, because I never had one, but if I did, and I wanted to get pissed, I'd be pissed at the one that supplied the warranty that is now considered worthless!
I'll be giving these guys a fair chance at making the C Dory an even better boat.
Till then, I'll be enjoying my C Dory that whoever made in 1994, and I'll be promoting ALL years of the brand while including builder history, and I see no reason to advise my closest friends not to buy any certain year model.
 
Just a thought for future buyers - If SS (or any other builder or seller) won't cover an old warranty on a boat it's because they weren't paid for it. Somebody else was. The fact remains, however, that the purchase price of the boat was more than it would have been without the warranty. Given the recent history of C-Dory in particular, and boat building in general, that warranty was substantially overpriced.

Next time you're in the market for a new boat, ask the dealer or builder how much they'd take off the price to forget about the warranty. If businesses continue to fold at anything like the rate we've seen in recent history, and if most of us have had relatively minor, if any, warranty issues, why not just "go bare" on any express warranty? If they're really valuable, there should be a substantial savings! :wink: Of course, the consumer almost never knows how much a warranty is really worth. The sellers and builders have the numbers and they set the price. One of the price setting calculations is the cost (i.e., the "value") of a warranty. The best evidence on the so-called "extended warranties" many retailers push, at least, is that they are probably a very bad bargain for the consumer.

Maybe it's time to rely on the UCC's Implied Warranty of Merchantibility, and forget about express warranties.
 
OK, Pat, you certainly know what fluid marine purchased much better than I do. However, fluid marine purchased those assets in a different market. They kept the same production facility and personnel. My understanding is that SeaSport hasn't. fluid marine had hopes of continuing the C-dory line as a continuous business, until the market took a dump. Wright/SeaSport is under no illusion, but is certainly trying to see what they can do. Apparently this doesn't include covering past boats, but that's nothing we can influence. The dealer selling the boat is the one with which to negotiate the warranty and that's where people like Werfing and Mark are the ones with the best chance of selling what they have.

By the way, on Vancouver Isle's west coast an honored boat is the Orca line, since it is certainly a better rough water boat with it's traditional hull. The dealer in Port Alberni said they had just ordered a new one from Wright Bros/Sea Sport/etc. It'll be interesting to see if they get an Orca or a re-badged SeaSport. Or if he was BSing a foreigner (I don't have a Canadian accent, eh, but do have San Diego on the side of Journey On.) By the way, the guy also had 2 C-dory's.

They also only have square drive sheet metal screws here. I was told that this is a Canadian invention, but then I remembered that the old Fresno on the ranch had square drive flat headed bolts on it, and that thing is from the '20. Another rumor down the tubes.

Thank God for spell check.

Boris
 
Hi,
I think the idea here is to discuss among owners, wantabes, lurkers etc. different takes or opinions on what had happened with the sale of Fluid Marine. There really isn't a right or wrong in my book. I see at least some posts that have people turned off about buying anything from Sea Sport or existing boats with dealer warranties. Suggestions for a reduction in price for a as is no warranty sale. Since we know S.S. looks at the site I would have thought as an owners group S.S. would have come forward and provided a little more info about things like is the C-Dory name dead? What they intend to change etc. Surely they must have had some sort of plan. Or was it a drive by garage sale sort of spur of the moment deal. Either way it would be great if they wanted share some of that here. So I for one don't see the need to bow down to the new ownership until I see their real intentions. The warranty thing is pretty clear but there is loads of other questions that are tied to this thread. People already are getting turned off by the silence. I for one don't really think the meek will inherent the world. Squeeky wheel gets the oil, I'm still squeeking. That's the wonderful part about this site,people can state there own case independently. Everyone is entitled to at least that. No ugly here.
D.D.
 
I can understand SS not wanting to post on this thread. Because whatever they do, some will declare it the "wrong" thing to do. Additionally, Sea Sport works with a dealer network, and a number of us are keeping you informed about what is going on as we find out about it.

A very active owner's group can be both a blessing and a curse for a manufacturer. We've already seen posters talking about dropping product, reengineering product or trying to make the boats something that is what they would want. There has been talk of factory direct sales (in hopes of saving money, I imagine(although those who bought factory direct are in a worse position than those who bought from a dealer))

Right now, Sea Sport is going to build the C-Dory and Skagit line ups as they exist, with no changes. To make changes at this point would require investing more money, which makes no sense in this market. Especially on two boat lines that are well respected as they are.

What I don't understand is this attitude of actively discouraging potential buyers of Sea Sport built boats (and by extension remaining Fluid built inventory on dealers lots).

Such an attitude, if it became widespread, would doom the brand, and C-Dory would wind up on the heap on other failed brand names (Owens, Trojan, Shamrock, Aquasport). It almost sounds like some on this board would encourage, and that others would actively promote this. (which is why I commented that the thread had gotten ugly)

The reality of this situation is that Fluid couldn't continue building one or two boats a month in the facility they had. They couldn't make enough money to pay the light bill, let alone the rent. So the doors would have been closing anyway.

The fact that someone came in and saved the brand from extinction should be a good thing. And yet many here can't see any positives, and in fact feel somehow "wronged" by the new steward of the brand. And the new steward is a known builder with a history of good quality. I thank the boat gods that Palmer Marine didn't get their hands on the line, and add it to the products they have driven into the ground with poor quality and miserable support. (Don't laugh- Palmer was looking around the business last fall- that would have been a disaster. We would have dropped the line immediately, as I imagine Mark and Wefings would have as well.)

So some of you may have to invest money out of pocket for repairs. I'm sorry about that. But dozens of people lost their livelihood, which is far more devastating to them than the loss of warranty will be to any boat owners. Others of us are barely hanging on, trying to remain in an industry we love and keep our bills paid.

It doesn't help to have people condemning the new builder of the line before the first boat is ever produced. The days of the factory dealing directly with the end user is probably over. The business model has changed. (and I wonder if this isn't what is most upsetting to some on this board) This acquisition by Sea Sport could be the best thing that could happen to C-Dory. Only time will tell.
 
Matt Gurnsey":16nyisq8 said:
Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

And I think it is time to give this subject a rest!

Warren
 
Matt,

You pretty well put things in common sense perspective as Wild Blue Jim has in previous posts. The only folks that are deserving of any blame are no longer around to blame. I'm thankful a quality builder like SS bought the line and I wish them much success. They will have my support, such that it is, unless and until they actually do something that indicates to me they no longer deserve it.

While it is hard for some of us to put ourselves in the shoes of those who have lost all warranty coverage which they paid good money for, it is probably equally hard for those folks to put themselves in the shoes of SS. As Jim B. has said before "...there are no winners here". I agree there are no short term winners but in the long term we will all be winners if SS succeeds with C-Dorys.

In the meantime I am going to enjoy my boat at every opportunity.

Harper
 
Doryman":1lbm9g1h said:
Matt Gurnsey":1lbm9g1h said:
Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

And I think it is time to give this subject a rest!

Warren
Click to expand...

I'd have to agree.
flogging-dead-horse.jpg
 
Matt, your points are right on. We looked at just two boats seriously when we purchased the Mary Ellen. The 22 ' Sea Sport and the 22' C-dory Crusier. We took demo rides in both. The final deciding factor was operating cost between the two and C-dory won hands down. We bought the first boat that Scot Reynolds sold just after the 2001 SBS. I have been very pleased with the support and upgrades that I recieved from C-dory over the years. I also think that the quality of C-dory is very good. Their were no problems that were not taken care of. Just a thought, everyones warranty ends sometime, so it is not a big deal in the end. I agree with Matt 100 percent with having a quality boat building company hopefully continuing the C-dory line. I was not impressed with Fluid Marine at all, but was very happy with C-dory under the Reynolds. I am sure it made a difference getting our boat built with the original work force at the old factory. I also wish Sea Sport success and am willing to give them some time to get going.
 
Thank you Matt, you said what I've been trying to do for a week or so now. But you said it from an industry viewpoint. Seasport builds GOOD boats. The C-dory and Orca are GOOD boats. Let's hope that all those lines continue, and we can congratulate Seasport for a good job.

I think Journey On is the best boat I could have bought. Seasports and Orcas are too heavy and cost more; the C-25 allows me to go cruising. Though it makes no practical difference to me, I hope the C-dory line keeps on going so that a lot of people can enjoy what I'm enjoying.

Boris
 
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