Interesting question - C-Dory Warranty

I keep seeing this basic argument. I understand it, and I certainly don't fault those who are making it - I just disagree with it. Which seems to place me in the minority, but that's OK too.

"Sea Sport shouldn't have to support boats they didn't build."


Sea Sport may have only paid for the molds/tooling, but they received far more than that. Sea Sport is the recipient of a large, mostly satisfied customer base, and perhaps the best fan club any boat manufacturer has ever seen. In conversations I've had over the years with those purchasing and building C-Dorys, there is zero doubt in my mind that the C-Brats and C-Dory owners are responsible for a huge portion of C-Dory sales. That will no doubt continue.

So...on one hand, people seem to think it's OK that Sea Sport benefits from the legacy they had NOTHING to do with. Which I would be fine with, were it not for the fact that they seem to be turning a blind eye to the very people who in large part, made the brand desirable enough for them to buy it!

Let's set aside what I think they should do, from an ethical standpoint. From a purely $$'s standpoint, I still disagree with the decision. How many times have we seen people buy a new C-Dory, then move up in size to another new C-Dory? Or get a second one? Are these really the people you would want to alienate? They're near the top of the ladder when it comes to future sales opportunities.

I'll be blunt...were I to encounter a major warranty issue on my C-Dory that Sea Sport refused to address, I would never consider them for a future purchase. However, mine is but one opinion...perhaps I hold people to unrealistic expectations. That being said, there are people in this industry that routinely exhibit the level of customer service I demand - Les being one such example in the PNW. For those of you who have dealt with him...how many think he would ignore you, if God forbid, EQ were to fold? How many of you have had Les provide support on boats and equipment you didn't buy from him? Why do you think he does such things?

People and companies with such work ethics, will continue to get my hard earned money - even if they are far and few between.
 
Man, that was perfectly stated - I agree 100% with Da Nag.

Now I just need to stop reading this thread and go back to loving the boat that Sea Sport did not build...
 
In March I discovered a fuel leak that was determined to be a bad fuel tank. Fluid Marine replaced the bad fuel tank and did some other minor work on my boat. The only cost to me was the price of the fuel tank.
I would hope the SS would look at each persons issue on a case by case basis. I am not sure were I would be right now if I had to eat the whole cost. I guess I would not be boating but saving my pennies for a costly repair.
The dealers have changed and mine no longer is a C Dory dealer. Is it just as fair/unfair to expect a former dealer to fix a problem as the new owners of the boat company. Not sure I know the answer but I do consider myself lucky.

Fred
 
T.R. Bauer":1102ifnk said:
....By giving a "cold" shoulder to current owners by not following through with a contractual obligation to repair relatively new boats put a very bad taste in everyone's mouth.....
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Tim- Sea Sport has no contract with anyone, and did not buy teh contracts that Fluid has for warranty.

Wow, this sure got ugly fast.
 
I thought my earlier post made it clear.

Let me spell it out.

There is no warranty on Reynolds or Fluid built boats. Period.

Will your dealer do something for you out of good will? Very likely. Could they negotiate something from Sea Sport to help you? Probably more than you could individually, since the dealer will, in theory, buy more boats.

I have been contacted by owners wanting to negotiate warranty work on boats we didn't sell, and often on items that weren't covered under the 5 year warranty anyway.

I'm sorry that some of you, individually don't have a warranty. The probability is that you will remain unaffacted. Discussions about "What if's?" that will probably never happen to your boats seems to me to be unnecessary worrying. For God's sake- Go enjoy your boats! Handle things as they come. If we sold you the boat we'll do everything we can to assist you if problems arrive. Why are some of you looking for problems?

The dealers on the other hand, will be suffering financial losses. I will suffer financial losses. That is a guaranteed certainty. So to those who would actively recommend that people not buy C-Dory boats now- Thanks so much. Because the people you're going to hurt are the very people who might be able to help you.
 
Matt Gurnsey":3768v6kg said:
Wow, this sure got ugly fast.
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I see a couple posts from understandably upset customers, but nothing I would call "ugly".

To me, the vast majority of posts in this thread are quite civil, expressing valid opinions and observations - on both sides.
 
Matt Gurnsey":2hm0g6gw said:
After returning from lunch, I think I came across as cranky in my last post. Not my intention at all.

I apologize if the post offended.
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Can you describe the cranky?...I didn't see one. :lol:

Now I had a cranky when that fuel dock hit my boat last week. The marina owner didn't seem to agree that the dock hit my boat. The wife blamed it on my 4 armed attempt at the fwd/rev with twins on a 22 maneuver. :oops:
 
Matt Gurnsey":5731gkr5 said:
If we sold you the boat we'll do everything we can to assist you if problems arrive. Why are some of you looking for problems?
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A. Matt, thanks for your input and I personally appreciate the good will of this statement. You and Kitsap Marine have backed this up on that one issue I had with the fuel lines. These are tough times and like I told you when we first spoke/negotiated on the 25, I have no issue with a business MAKING a reasonable & fair profit; how else would they stay in busines?

B. You are correct. I love my boat and look forward to MANY years of enjoying/loving it. We intend to USE it, take care of it and maintain it to the best of my ability. Any problems that MAY arise, I will deal with IF/WHEN that time comes.
 
Sometimes many pages need written before common sense prevails and with efforts of some brats and dealers I think ve are there now. All saber rattling does is make Sea sport managements eyes roll. :roll:

Again ve say to go enjoy your boat, many are saying the same thing. On the other hand if something is needed to cry about this winter surely not using boat now would acomplish that.

Not being much of an educated person I always appreciate eloquence seen in some post here!
Martin
 
Matt Gurnsey":3ew2ks1l said:
After returning from lunch, I think I came across as cranky in my last post. Not my intention at all.

I apologize if the post offended.
Click to expand...

No cranky from this perspective. You told the truth, said what needed to be said. The C-Dory faithful needs to support the good dealers. I wish you all the best in getting through this tough period.

Respectfully,
Jim B.
 
Wow I go enjoy my boat for a week and another 60 hours on the meter and looks what happens.

Well my two cents for the day
1) Glad that SSport bought C-dory. They make a great boat for fishing and cruising for folks like me that want to go a little faster and not get pounded as much. Susan and I are looking at a used one or two right now for the next boat.

2) Sorry that I am out of the one year left on my warrenty, but i understand why and dont blame SS for it. I agree with why they are not covering boats they did not build. Jim covered it pretty good. :evil: <jim sitting on hands.

3) Some folks keep bring up that we should not talk about this or that because it might effect a resale or dealer sale. This site is not IMHO here to help up hold the price of anyones boat. I very much enjoy the post by all the dealers and hopefully the factory and find it very useful, but its a site to discuss our boat, good or bad. Oh and fishing. :wink:

4) I believe that SS bought CD/ skagit so they could expand their line and get ride of a compettoir. Has anyone heard if the Orca line will be built????? Got money against that one.

5) SS buying out Cd is still better then the company just folding as many others are. I hope to see cd/ss at the next boat show.
 
Tom,

For once we agree on something. :wink

I couldn't have said it better. Right down to losing the last year on our warranty.

Now I'll go back and sit on my hands.
 
It would almost seem the used boat buyers, the strong do it yourself types and some who prefer buying factory direct have the opinion there is no benefit for S.S. to provide warranty support for existing boat built by the previous regimes. And I guess it's true (I don't know really what the agreement was) S.S. has no obligation to honor boats built by the previous regimes. It seems the fairy tale about the case by case basis has gone up in smoke at least from the post signed by the S.S. executive. A while back there was a warranty discussion and some took the same positions but at the end Fluid Marine made the statement about a sort of one year stem to stern warranty on items they had provided.

All business decisions are not completely based on the bottom line effect. At least in the business I run. We as wholesale distributor of access controls we have warrantied items the the manufacturers who built them would not. People trust us, we value our business name,I value my name. We also covered these items considered not to be warranty by some because we thought it was the right thing to do. We don't entertain our customer base a lot or spend a lot on marketing. We just provide common sense customer service based on how as individuals we would like to be treated. Greed and basing all decisions strictly on the bottom line is what got this country it this mess. I'm with some others who believe that the Toland designed and built great boats. S.S. got all that with out the research and development and hard work to get the boats called C-Dory's to be the respected name that they are. The C-Dory name, owners and some current and former dealers will no doubt be effected by the decisions of S.S. I wonder how much in the way of marketing dollars will have to be spent to over come the damage that comes from their decision to handle the warranty situation in this manner. They certainly have every right to do what ever they like. Some folks will forget about what happened and some won't. Given the few actual problems we have seen with the hulls I wonder what standing behind these boats would have really cost. For me my sales ability never would have never gotten me to far. Establishing trust with our customer base and doing the right thing for our customers has more than made up for my own lack of ability. Posts that consider this to be whining are certainly entitled to their opinions; this happens to be mine. I'm not sitting on my hands.

D.D.
 
The idea that Sea Sport got the C-Dory name and legacy as a bonus is interesting, but none of us know the details. Someone else could have bought the molds and potentially do a cheap, under-cutting job of making the boats, thereby destroying the reputation. Likely, that won't happen with Sea Sport, since they already have a reputation of producing quality boats.

I don't think we are divided into camps here who like or don't like the idea of our warranties disappearing. I can't imagine ANYONE thinks this is a good thing. What it IS is a fact - the Reynolds and Fluid produced boats are no longer covered. What it comes down to is how we deal with that fact: do we demand that someone else take care of us, or do we deal with it ourselves. The fact that Sea Sport bought the molds doesn't make them responsible for what was built in those molds previously. We can want them to be responsible; we can think they should be, but that just doesn't make it so. They paid something (we don't know what) for those molds; probably something for the right to use the name (again, it's really none of our business).

So, here we are. I'm not the most handy guy and I'm over 1,000 miles to the closest dealer. Would I like to have the remainder of the warranty that was promised to me by the Reynolds? Absolutely. Do I actually get that? No.

I don't see that this is getting ugly. We are discussing the situation. As with any loss, there are stages we go through, and some are still in the denial or bargaining stage. I have a great deal of respect for the folks on this forum, but eventually it is going to be necessary to accept what has happened... and go out and enjoy our boats. There is no guarantee that any manufacturer of any product will remain in business long enough to get you through an agreed-upon warranty. For folks who bought boats recently, this is especially crappy.

Sea Sport is taking a chance - betting that whatever they paid for the molds will allow them to make some profit in the future. There is no guarantee that they will be in business in 6 months. The last thing they need is people expecting them to pick up the cost of fixing boats they didn't make. If the Fluid Marine C-Dory enterprise had been a money-making enterprise, it could have possibly been bought intact, including taking over the liabilities. Didn't happen. Bad for us, bad for FM, bad for the employees of FM, bad for the local economy. There are no "winners" in this situation.

For those of us (myself included) who have lost warranty coverage, it's a loss... something in the purchase agreement that we are not getting. But no matter how much we debate it, it doesn't make Sea Sport the responsible party here. That's a fact, not an opinion. That was why I originally said I'd be "sitting on my hands." My opinion of what anyone should do with this situation doesn't change the facts.

If you feel Sea Sport "wronged" you in some way, that is your opinion. You can choose to buy or not buy something from them in the future. If the previous owners of C-Dory had been looking out for us, this may all be playing out differently. I certainly respect the opinions of everyone here, and while we may not agree on how this could have been handled, I hope we can continue to not be disagreeable.

Like Dave, I took care of my clients before we retired. Over the decades, there were good times and skinny times. We didn't leave anyone holding the bag when we retired. But that is entirely different from closing the doors due to a bad financial situation. It's a different world these days.

Respectfully,
Jim B.
 
This has been, for the most part, an enlightening thread. While it deals with C-Dory specifically, in general it is a case study of how, in this economic time, reasonable people can discuss a serious issue, disagree and suffer loss, and do it with courtesy and grace. That's very hopeful.
 
You have to think back to when the c-dory / toland brand closed the first time. no boats where built for a while. Then the Reynolds bought the name and the molds. I don't remember anyone expecting them to warranty any of the toland boats? or the olympic / orca boats either.

Now as far as c-dorys good name, what good name? Really, does anyone think that the boats built in the last few years are really good quality? many of us have listed problem after problem with how are boats are made and with the lack ofcustomerr service from the factory. Not to mention some of the bad design changes over the years. I really like my boat but I have seen better built boats and much better workmanship then c-dory over the last few years. The toland built boat including the CapeCruiserr where better built as where the early reynolds boats. Sorry to cast a shadow on the boats we all love but lets be honest with our selves.

Now I think that SS buying the Cd is a good thing for the futurequalityy of our boats. Whether you like the design and style of a SS or not they have a great reputation for buildingqualityy boats and running a businesss for years around here. I have many friends in both the PSA and the CCA that have SS and I have never heard a bad word about quality or service from any of them. They all love their boats. I hope to see the quality of the c-dory line improve in the coming year. Not being ugly ( what ever that is) just telling it the way I see it.
 
Hi,
I think some have maybe missed the point here, mine was I thought it would have been a good business practice to have considered the warranty issue a little differently. I'm not trying now to get S.S. to come around just stating why I thought it would have paid dividends down the road. S.S. has no presence on the east coast for whatever reason so there are not many S.S. owners to quiz locally. With a deep V hull I would imagine Tom's new used boat is going to be quite a bit more thirsty at the fuel dock compared to his current ride. I do beg to differ with Tom on a respectful basis on the quality issue. C-Dory's resale value was one of the real selling points before the depression hit.There were numerous reports of the build quality being much improved during Fluid Marine's brief tenure as a boat builder. I thought both Marc from Wefing's and others spoke well of the improved build quality. I myself had a good experiences with Fluid Marine as they shipped a few items directly to me for Wefing's. I have only ever heard of one hull delamination that resulted in a boat having to be replaced. Maybe I'm uninformed. Some of the problems previous to Fluid Marine I'm sure had to to with the lack of funds. No ugly here. :lol:
D.D.
 
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