Interesting question - C-Dory Warranty

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Pat Anderson

New member
Interesting question - who is going to cover the warranty? No C-Dory, no Fluid Marine. So are we expecting Sea Sport to cover warranties on late model C-Dorys? Have they said they would? I would hope they would, and we will all be watching to see what they do. Our 2005 would have a year left on the 5 year hull warranty, but I am far from certain that there is anybody who will honor it...
 
Pat Anderson":27tb91wc said:
Interesting question - who is going to cover the warranty? No C-Dory, no Fluid Marine. So are we expecting Sea Sport to cover warranties on late model C-Dorys? Have they said they would? I would hope they would, and we will all be watching to see what they do. Our 2005 would have a year left on the 5 year hull warranty, but I am far from certain that there is anybody who will honor it...
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I wouldn't count on it. Part of the reason for buying only the assets of a company (and not the company itself) is to eliminate liabilities (warranty claims). In order for Sea Sport to be profitable with C-Dory, they're going to have to SELL some of them. To start out by paying out warranty claims without the benefit of sales would be a tough proposition. In a similar vein, one of the main reasons we bought from the factory (back in 2006) was the much-touted factory service... which went away a few months later. Any idea if Sea Sport offers factory service or do they require you to go to a dealer?

In April, we had some warranty work done on our 5th wheel at the factory. One of the service techs looked at our serial # and said, "I was on the build team for this coach." There was no question that he knew every nuance of the build. That's a definite benefit from my perspective.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
I propose it would cost more to NOT honor warranties on previously sold boats.

Imagine how the largest sales team (C-Brat's) would react to discover we no longer have a warrantied boat? Not to mention prospective owners doing diligent research (characteristic of C-Dory buyers); who would risk buying a boat from a company that has had two owners in 1 year if warranties were not honored?

The 10 year hull warranty on the Tomcat at the time of my purchase was among the top three selling points for me. I was so paranoid I made sure I got a signed letter from the then CEO specifically stating my hull would be covered by the 10 year warranty as advertised at the time of purchase.
 
matt_unique":32uonz1v said:
I propose it would cost more to NOT honor warranties on previously sold boats.

Imagine how the largest sales team (C-Brat's) would react to discover we no longer have a warrantied boat? Not to mention prospective owners doing diligent research (characteristic of C-Dory buyers); who would risk buying a boat from a company that has had two owners in 1 year if warranties were not honored?

The 10 year hull warranty on the Tomcat at the time of my purchase was among the top three selling points for me. I was so paranoid I made sure I got a signed letter from the then CEO specifically stating my hull would be covered by the 10 year warranty as advertised at the time of purchase.
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I suspect it will be on a case by case basis. If they bought assets only (no liabilities - read warranties) then they are not bound to honor them. The only reason to do so would be for "good will", read "reputation".

Matt, your letter is good only to go back against the owner at the time you bought the boat, not the current owner. Not sure you'd get very far, no, I take that back, I'm sure you would get nowhere without a court battle which would not be worth it on your part. Fortunately, we've got pretty good boats!

Charlie
 
Yes, I am well aware this was an asset sale and there is no obligation. Jeff Lindhout does read C-Brats, as we know. I think we all see the benefit to our C-Dorys having a new home at Sea Sport and not becoming orphans. I do hope that Jeff sees the long term value of the integrity of the brand name. But these are tough short term times and it may be very hard or even impossible to take a long term view right now. Only time will tell.
 
Also raises the question of re-sale value if there is no transferable warranty.

Currently the price of CD's is above average because of good reputation and back-up in really serious cases and also because of this group support.

If the resale price drops, then it makes it harder to justify the price differential of a new boat with a warranty from a company which has been sold 3 times in a short timescale.
Sea Sport make great boats and I'm sure they will do a good job but with a tight community and reputation that C-Dory's have it will be a commercial and marketing tightrope in today's economy.

I just hope they use the good support that is available here as it is obviously in everyone's best interests.

Merv
 
I wonder how big a liability it would be to honor the warranty? Not sure how many claims they get. Many owners, I'm sure, opt just to fix little stuff themselves and not bother, since it's a PITA to get a boat back to a dealer. I do recall total replacement of at least one boat due to osmosis problems on the gel coat on the bottom. That was a remarkable thing for the factory to do at the time.

Maybe it's not a big issue... Only Sea Sport knows, or if not, will find out I'm sure. Maybe they'll sell more new boats if they don't honor a transferrable warranty? :roll: I hope they don't look at it that way!

Charlie
 
Captains Cat":1e66sszp said:
matt_unique":1e66sszp said:
I propose it would cost more to NOT honor warranties on previously sold boats.

Imagine how the largest sales team (C-Brat's) would react to discover we no longer have a warrantied boat? Not to mention prospective owners doing diligent research (characteristic of C-Dory buyers); who would risk buying a boat from a company that has had two owners in 1 year if warranties were not honored?

The 10 year hull warranty on the Tomcat at the time of my purchase was among the top three selling points for me. I was so paranoid I made sure I got a signed letter from the then CEO specifically stating my hull would be covered by the 10 year warranty as advertised at the time of purchase.
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I suspect it will be on a case by case basis. If they bought assets only (no liabilities - read warranties) then they are not bound to honor them. The only reason to do so would be for "good will", read "reputation".

Matt, your letter is good only to go back against the owner at the time you bought the boat, not the current owner. Not sure you'd get very far, no, I take that back, I'm sure you would get nowhere without a court battle which would not be worth it on your part. Fortunately, we've got pretty good boats!

Charlie
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Whoa....I didn't mention the letter as any sort of legal standing document should they refuse a warranty claim, just an example of the due diligence exercised by C-Dory owners (well at least this one :D)

Obviously I, and we, have a vested interest in them honoring the warranties, but in a tough economy maintaining a reliable warranty through the ownership change will be more important than ever to maximize sales. Prospective new owners will find a fundamental theme about the C-Dory brand if they do a search on this site - that they stand behind their boats. There is no way the incremental cost of warranty fixes would cost more than the damage to the brand equity if legitimate warranty claims were refused.
 
matt_unique":2xgaelog said:
I propose it would cost more to NOT honor warranties on previously sold boats.

Imagine how the largest sales team (C-Brat's) would react to discover we no longer have a warrantied boat? Not to mention prospective owners doing diligent research (characteristic of C-Dory buyers); who would risk buying a boat from a company that has had two owners in 1 year if warranties were not honored?
...
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We would feel like all the boat and RV owners whose manufacturers have gone out of business... which is essentially what has happened here. When a business sells off the assets, they are parting out the company. The new buyer of those assets is buying physical assets only, with the hope of being able to bring back the product. A warranty is a contract between the buyer and the builder; when the builder no longer exists as a business entity, the contract is worth nothing. I can't see how it would reflect badly on Sea Sport. They had no responsibility in the building of the boats prior to this time. They bought some molds and parts... where is the reasoning that they should be the responsible party? If Sea Sport did not buy the assets and C-Dory simply closed their doors, who would you expect to pony up any warranty claims?

A warranty is only as good as the business who offers it... business gone, warranty gone. I had some warranty issues that I resolved before the Reynolds sold off their assets of the company (within the first year of our ownership). I didn't pursue any other issues after Fluid bought the assets; I got out my checkbook. I don't have a warranty contract with Fluid. The fact that they stayed in the same location and kept many of the same people on staff may have led folks to believe that it was "business as usual." The fact that they did honor some previous warranty claims is a bonus for those boat owners. Good business? Perhaps, but in this tough boat sales situation, most companies are in survival mode, and that means cutting expenses.

When we sold our business 3 years ago, it was an "assets only" sale. We had clients with pre-paid deposits, and I gave those deposits to the new owner with the written promise he would fulfill the jobs. It was my way of protecting our previous clients. We don't know what or if any similar arrangements were made between Fluid and Sea Sport, but that is NOT the norm with an assets purchase.

So, we have some pretty cool boats. And in the future, others may be able to buy similar boats. We have no idea what Sea Sport will do with our beloved designs and have no say in it. And if a buyer of the "new" C-Dory boats that Sea Sport produces does the research, he will find the reputation of Sea Sport behind his new boat.

It's a different world today when it comes to buying a new car/boat/RV/home (insert any major purchase). Last year I bought a new toy-hauler RV. I did plenty of research. About 6 weeks later, that manufacturer closed their doors... as in: chains on the gate. No warranty, no parts, no support. Five months later, I traded that RV in on a bigger 5th wheel. I did plenty of research. I also looked at the market... no assurance that ANY manufacturer would be around. This manufacturer, however, put aside warranty money in an escrow account to take care of new buyers in the event the company ceased doing business... pretty amazing in today's business climate. And smart. That business now has new orders and will emerge from this crappy business climate as one of the leaders.

We've seen major boat manufacturers close up in the past year. There is no one around to honor their warranties. From my perspective, the writing was on the wall for the Reynold's era C-Dory when they discontinued factory service. They took concern for their customers out of the equation. After Jeff Messmer left, there was no factory communication with the boat owners. Honestly, Fluid didn't do any better with customer service/communicqtion. But, that's who we bought from. Now, it will be interesting to see what Sea Sport does with the brand... and with this fanatical group of owners. :wink:

If I were in the market for a new C-Dory, I'd be more optimistic about the build and the future with Sea Sport at the helm. They have a fine reputation. That doesn't do much for the current owners of late model boats and the warranty contract they have with businesses that no longer exist.

So, we take good care of our boats so they'll provide us with many years of service.

Just my 2¢.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
If I were in Jeff's shoes, even though it was an asset purchase, I would think long and hard about what not honoring warranty claims from Reynolds or Fluid Marine manufactured C-Dorys would do to the reputation of the brand.

This thread as you may know was split off by Mike, appropriately so, from a thread in the For Sale By Owner forum, where the boat, a 2007 CD25, was advertised as having a "transferrable warranty," which of course we know now is far from certain.
 
JamesTXSD":x85a1lve said:
... They bought some molds and parts... where is the reasoning that they should be the responsible party? If Sea Sport did not buy the assets and C-Dory simply closed their doors, who would you expect to pony up any warranty claims?

A warranty is only as good as the business who offers it... business gone, warranty gone. I had some warranty issues that I resolved before the Reynolds sold off their assets of the company (within the first year of our ownership). I didn't pursue any other issues after Fluid bought the assets; I got out my checkbook.....
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Hi Jim,
I'm surprised we disagree on this topic. Sea Sport can choose to run the company as they wish, and I hope they are more successful than the last two owners. I'm a champion for C-Dory; in person at the dock and on the websites I visit. Ha ha, I have a big responsibility, I own the only Tomcat in Massachusetts so I consider myself the ambassador. :D

I think prospective customers will be researching C-Dory as a brand and not the 'current holder of assets' when contemplating the purchase of a C-Dory vessel. I also think there would be a significant loss of brand equity (and thus sales to new and repeat buyers) if all buyers in the last 4-9 years were told they no longer had a warranty. It is my opinion the cost of warranty fixes would be cheaper than telling recent buyers the warranty is now void.

The last two owners covered warranty items on Napoleon and I will approach Sea Sport should something else happen (at this point only hull related since I'm past the year mark). It will be up to them whether they cover the repair and all I can do is cross that bridge should it come.
 
Hi,
As some have said the world has changed. Some might think in an effort to keep the name untarnished that the new folks would have negotiated the selling price to factor in with Fluid Marine and what must have shown on the books as warranty payouts over the last couple of years. I think it's more important to look at the dealers that have inventory (boats) that were built by the previous regime to have warranty coverage from the new guys. I depend more on Wefing's my dealer to do the right thing concerning warranty than to depend on playing pin the tail on the donkey with all the changes that have occurred with C-Dory over the last few years. What ever it takes to keep the current group of faithful dealers healthy should be of high importance to the new guys. Certainly most items such as motors, steering, glass, and the like have their own warranties. Since I still do all of the warranty labor I see nothing changing on that front. Thank God for me. Jim was right about the whole warranty concept. I have been told good dealers and owners in good standing will have warranty issues viewed on a case by case basis. I have friend touring the factory on the 25th of this month. I sure as a perspective owner he will ask the questions. Pray for the best, expect the worst, just my own mantra. My boat is only months old to me but it sat around awhile so I don't even know who is it's real daddy. Marc at Wefing's is still my man, boatwise anyway. :D
D.D.
 
Dave - dealers who perform warranty work expect and deserve to get paid for it. The warranty obligation rightfully is the manufacturer's. I know Wefings and other fine dealers will do everything they can to help people who bought boats from them, but there is a limit to what it is reasonable to expect them to do. Sea Sport has a much bigger stake in the reputation of the C-Dory line than any dealer.
 
I too would guess warranties were out the window. Half of the members on here bought used boats with no warranties. And I doubt if many of us owners would have been dissuaded from purchasing a C-Dory because of a concern over the warranty. The beauty of the C-Dory is what you see is what you get. We all know what we see, and we like it so we would buy anyway.
 
JamesTXSD":12tqkt0z said:
The new buyer of those assets is buying physical assets only, with the hope of being able to bring back the product.
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Jimmy, ol' pal...dunno about that.

There is likely one significant exception to the "physical asset only purchase" - the name. Which in my mind, is the most relevant asset to this discussion.

Were Sea Sport simply buying up tooling and molds, and started selling "Sea Sport Cruisers", that would be one thing.

But to continue selling the C-Dory brand, while not supporting models built before acquisition - that's simply bad business, not to mention bad customer service. There is obvious value in the brand, which would be permanently diluted should a new owner take such a hands-off approach.

I understand the reluctance of any new owner of C-Dory, to make promises regarding this issue. Still, something tells me Sea Sport is well aware of the above, and like the previous "asset only" purchaser of C-Dory, will stand by the boats built before they took over.
 
To ask someone to warranty product that they didn't build is a tough proposition. There were some articles published claiming that Sea Sport bought Fluid- not so.

So i'll step out on a limb here and say that warranties may be transferable, but since Reynolds, and Fluid are gone, there is no one to pay for that warranty.

For the original owner- my guess is that Sea Sport will take them on a case by case basis.

The real problem will be new inventory istting on dealers lots. We bought a number of C-Dory's in good faith, and it looks like we will be holding the bag on these.

So if someone wants to buy a new 2009 C-Dory, there will probably be some great deals out there, with the understanding that the dealer will be on the hook for warranty, and will probably cover minor issues. Any major event with the hull? Don't know for sure what would happen.

But how many major hull issues have we seen in Fluid built boats? The product is well designed, and what we have seen coming out of Fluid, well built.

There is certainly some risk, but as pointed out, if Fluid had gone down (which in effect, they have) and no one had bought the name and molds of C-Dory, what warranty would you have had?
 
Of course, all this is assumption/speculation on everyone's part until we hear one way or the other from Sea Sport. I'm thinking we should let them get everything moved, sorted, and make a boat or twelve to see how it fits in their production before we swoop down upon them.

Let's keep the pitch forks and torches in the shed for now and enjoy our boats. Having a good dealer is probably the best asset for an owner these days. Oh, yeah, our "dealer" was the factory. :roll:

There is certainly value in the C-Dory name. That is a "good-will" asset. We sold our name with the business. We did not have any liabilities, so that wasn't an issue. But, having the name legally (unless specified in a contract) does not obligate the new owner to any liabilities of the previous owner. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds.

Best wishes,
Jim
 
Hi

I appreciate the comments on the warranty question. I am in the middle right now trying to get my hull fixed. From what most of you are saying, I will be on my own. I don't think it makes good business sense on the part of Sea Sport but Jeff Lindhout told me to go to the dealer and the builder. There is no more builder and it is asking a lot for the dealer to cover it by himself.

If anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing them.
 
Seems as though the wait and see advice are the only options! Much debate takes place every time c-dory changes hand and in the end it won't be entirely like what speculators think.
Maybe go for a ride, use the boat, catch fish and just wait to see if you were hozed or not! If not then you have no worries, if so then trade it in for Sea sport, still no worries. :wink:
Martin
 
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