Interesting question - C-Dory Warranty

Hi

I see a lot of interest in the warranty question and a lot of comments. There is a feeling that once the builder is out of business tough luck. Additionally, it is the general consensus that the dealers can't afford to do it all themselves.

However, if Sea Sport wants to sell boats they need to come up with some compramise that tries to make it a "win-win" situation. Current C-Dory owners are the best advertising for new sales. It is the same in any industry. If current owners get stuck, they won't recommend the boat to others and Sea Sport suffers.

I still think Sea Sport should pick up some of the liability and make dealers feel good about the product. The boats on a dealers lot need coverage so they can be sold and stock replenished. In tough times those who provide exceptional customer service win. Sea Sport needs to understand the basic message and get on board to create a positive about their future.
 
Hank,
I'm not sure where Bulldog stands as a C-Dory dealer, but no matter really. I would find a good fiberglass guy/girl get an estimate and get the work done right by someone who will guarantee their work. Pay for it and protect your investment. Then you can see if anyone get any help once you can talk dollars and cents. If everyone looks at the screwing Wall street gave to the world you would have to think business wise this country is about morally bankrupt. There are exceptions but things are likely to get worse instead of better I'm not so sure anyone will come to C-Dory owners rescue concerning warranty issues. It will be your right after you are sure you can get no compensation to make it you your life long mission to to tell the world of your bad experience you had with your C-Dory or just take your beating and move on. We all feel your pain. At least Bernie Madeoff with my money(sic) didn't get your life savings. I hope not anyway.
D.D.
 
On covering stress cracks in the gelcoat under warranty - the Reynolds C-Dory company did it routinely. A LOT of CD25s, including ours, developed stress cracks in the corner of the transom. We had to get Bret Reynolds' OK, but he approved it and LUSR (Lake Union Sea Ray, the C-Dory dealer - what odd bedfellows!) did the work. So at least in the C-Dory I would not say that covering stress fractures is "rare."
 
I have an 07 C22, which I purchased new, and have developed several stress cracks. Of which Fluid based off my conversations with the dealer took care of. Even though they didn't have to. This does help to promote good will (based off my opinion) and I continued to feel good about my previous purchase. Now don't get me wrong - it's not as if the warranty wasn't honored I wouldn't feel good about my previous purchase but this was one of the major deciding factors to purchasing a new boat vs a used boat - the warranty. Knowing the new owner fluid was going to take care of warranty issues was a huge relief. Yes I have the ability to self insure (write a check) again, I come back to my original point. I bough new because of the warranty.

Now I have a minor four inch crack developing along the gunnel just behind the port side of the cabin. It doesn't appear to be deep, more cosmetic, but I'm am going to get it fixed none the less. I have a great local dealer (Sportcraft Marina), he's always treated me more than fairly and I know this too will be fixed whether I self insure or the new owners pay. It ultimately isn't our decision to make here, it's SeaSport. It will be interesting to all as to how they handle minor problems of previous boats.

I've read everyones post here and one thing that is true is passion. Passion is one of the best marketing tools used for selling a product. advertising companies and their clients spend millions of dollars probably into the billions using this very tool. We have great passion for our boats. Marketing can be very expensive, advertising in this magazine, showing up to boat shows, etc. Fixing minor gel coat problems here and there, replacing an emblem, having a screw replaced etc would cost significantly less and probably get you more advertising and good will than any other media outlet. Business is a lot of cost vs benefit. Loyal, happy, good-will Ambassadors are worth their weight. I for one am happy about SeaSport and C-dory I believe the SeaSports have a great fit and finish. I hope that several of their ideas make it into the C-dory line up.

To the new owners of C-dory (the boat) I lift up my glass and wish you the best in the coming months and hopefully long years ahead.
 
I've owned quite a few 14-17' fiberglass boats, all were at least a few years old before I got them...ALL had stress cracks, and all were mid-level name brands.
Our 15 year old C Dory amazed me when we went to look at her, there are only 2 places that have spiderweb cracks, both about the size of a half dollar...one where the boat was obviously backed into something that had a sharp point (just below the rub rail at the corner of the transom) and one just below the rub rail at the port lazaret (obviously made by the corner of a loose battery)...both look like they were shot with a BB gun.
 
Even with some warranties left ve are comfortable loosing it as a result of this purchase. The local dealer has no reputation for service so most do their own anyway and have forever.

This is kind of like when the Cape cruisers were a big topic and now ve are the step children, maybe?

Maybe price of new boats from old maker will drop like cape boats did?
Martin
 
For all you business types out there:

Let's say there are two spec home builders who are in competition with each other. Number one for whatever reason is going out of business. Number two builder admires his set of plans, tools and materials. Number two builder decides to buy number one's assets. Do you think number two should warranty the work of number one especially if number one doesn't have as high of building standards as number two? Would you do it if you we in number two's shoes?
Forrest
 
Hi again

It is really interesting to see the opinions on the warranty qusetions. There is a lot to say for "self insuring" because you are sure it gets done in a timely manner. It is not good financially when a premium was paid for the boat in the first place to get the best long range value.

I may be in a minority but I factored the warranty in when I purchased our boat. We live in Southwest FL so we have the opportunity to use our boat all year round. While it isn't "cold" in the winter it does get cool.

I looked at a lot of boats before we bought and the warranty gave me a lot of comfort. In the first year I had a problem with the door leaking and Bret went out of his way to help me. It made me feel really good about my choice. While so far my problem seems small but I believe that the warranty does help when and if I sell or trade in a boat. I would think that the status of the warranty coverage will impact all of us in our pocket books by decreasing the value of our boats.

Bigger than that is how we address people about our boat. Word of mouth bad comments will not help Sea Sport sell boats. Problems we have with our warranties will make people wonder about future boats and future sales and other types of problems. Decreased confidence in warranties might lead people to other boats. There are other boat builders who have built a similar style to C-Dory.

I can see the various sides to the discussion but I guess I am a little stubborn and feel I am getting the short end of the stick. From looking at the comments and the number of views of this topic it seems that this is important to people. I hope that I see a good result in the near future.

Hank
 
The last sentence in my previous post was suppose to read as "Would you do it if you were in number two's shoes?" Not "we", but I couldn't edit after I noticed my error. Along similar lines would you have expected C-Dory to honor my Cape Cruiser warranty since I'm guessing that C-Dory took the molds in lieu the judgement against Cape Cruiser? They took over Cape Cruisers assets. Maybe I can get Sea Sport to cover my warranty should I ever need it. Do you remember the Federal Government pledging to cover GM warranties if you bought a new GM car should GM go bankrupt? Sometimes life isn't fair. Sometimes you just have to move on. You still have a great boat that you can enjoy for years to come. I just feel its unrealistic to think Sea Sport will fix problems that they didn't create. I hope Sea Sport survives and thrives in the future. I know I've always admired Sea Sports and always toured them at the boat show. I also know I couldn't afford one but I knew they were top drawer.
Forrest
 
I'll admit that I don't know what the legal requirements are for honoring warranty obligations. But, regarding the purchase of assets, I would think that if company A was interested in selling product, and not just eliminating competition, they would only buy the NAME of company B if that name had a positive reputation. And I would also think that company A would take the necessary steps to protect and ensure the strength of that reputation. Because, well... they acquired the assets so that they could make sales, right? And it doesn't take very many disgruntled customers to tarnish a good reputation in today's uber-connected, interweb based world.

Just my two cents.
 
Hank and others, I think what you are all doing is lobbying to try and get SeaSport to take on the warranty claims when they have no legal or "moral" obligation to do so. If Fluid Marine built your boat, your warranty is with them. They are who you bought the boat from, not SeaSport. You still have a valid warranty with them - they may be bankrupt, but that is the breaks.

I disagree that how SeaSport handles the warranty claims of the prior owners is going to materially affect sales of new boats. The new boat buyer is going to look at how the warranty for their boat will be handled, not ones built before Seasport. If they believe Seasport is going to be around to honor their warranty, they aren't going to care much whether they honor the warranties of prior owners. The bigger concern for SeaSport is their relationship with the dealers - i.e. how they are going to treat those boats still on their dealer's lots.

Frankly, the cost of repairing sress cracks is going to be small fraction of the cost of owning and maintaining the boat over the long term. My suggestion is to see what your dealer can do for you on the warranty, and if it is nothing, do not be suprised and take it like a man. You are more responsible for your predicament by buying a boat built by flaky businessmen, than is SeaSport for salvaging from obscurity a beautifully designed and functional boat with a devout following.

My boat had a 10 year warranty. The transom cracked in year six, due to what I considered a manufacturing/design defect. But since I was the second owner, the facory just laughed when I asked them about the possibility of a warranty repair. I sucked it up and paid for it myself, and now the transom is rebult in a better manner than the original design. I also had factory defects at the rear bulkhead where the top and bottom of the hull were joined. Water intruded and rotted the core of the bulkhead for about a 6'X6"area on both sides. Fixed it myself for about $45.

Bottomline is that C-Dories are great boats. Don"t hold SeaSport responsible for the sins of their predecessors, who apparently weren't concerned enough about their customers to negotiate in the purchase for Sea Sport to assume their warranty obligations or to reserve funds from the sale to protect the people that bought boats from them.
 
Hi

I read the comments that my problem affects all C-Dory owners and it does. I feel that if a company, buys a business and wants to sell new items and keep current owners happy they should come up with some solution that makes it a "win-win" for everyone. There can be compramises that help all. I can see the point of a Sea Sport not wanting to accept all liabilities, however, it is common business sense to step up to the plate to some extent. Jeff is ducking and while that may help initially, it will hurt more over time. They didn't buy C-Dory assets for the heck of it. They felt it was a good product and there are real loyal owners. (the C-Brat site is unique) Again, there should be a way for a "win- -win" for all, current owners and the new company owner. Maybe Jeff can get creative and make all present owners feel better while assuring future owners of the unique world of C-Dory
 
There are no comparison between sea sport and c-dory. Sea sport is much finer finished inside and out. More money sure but not that much in respective sizes. I see one or two reasons to by c-dory,1. to purposly have a lower quality cheeper that appeals to a few more prospective byers.2. to possibly weed thru the many models choosing only a couple popular ones and offer much less than previous. still having something for a few prospectives that wont take the jump to nicer boat.
Martin
 
hank heise":23lxyivo said:
Hi

I read the comments that my problem affects all C-Dory owners and it does. I feel that if a company, buys a business and wants to sell new items and keep current owners happy they should come up with some solution that makes it a "win-win" for everyone. There can be compramises that help all. I can see the point of a Sea Sport not wanting to accept all liabilities, however, it is common business sense to step up to the plate to some extent. Jeff is ducking and while that may help initially, it will hurt more over time. They didn't buy C-Dory assets for the heck of it. They felt it was a good product and there are real loyal owners. (the C-Brat site is unique) Again, there should be a way for a "win- -win" for all, current owners and the new company owner. Maybe Jeff can get creative and make all present owners feel better while assuring future owners of the unique world of C-Dory
Click to expand...

They don't make money from loyal owners, unless they can convince others to buy new boats or buy a new one themselves. I look forward to them trying to figure out this conundrum (that's a puzzle, not a bad word :cry ). Common business sense has been redefined by the current economic situation. I wish them all the luck. What I really am concerned about are all the dealers out there with new boats in stock that can no longer tell buyers about a great warranty!

Yes, we are unique...... :love And we'll stick together...unless we don't agree.... :cry

Charlie
 
Being the only dealer in New England, the whole transfer of ownership in the company scares me! I have not heard from the new owners as of yet, and I have put in several phone calls and left messages for them to get back to me. Y-Landing Marine has been a dealer for almost 5 years and we have had some difficulty getting reimbursed by the factory (Reynolds and Fluid) for warranty work that we have done. We stand behind these boats and try our hardest to take care of problems for our customers and then go after the factory for the money. I too hope the "new guys" pay close attention to the C-Brats and to their dealers when it comes to covering warranty issues on older boats.
 
Nainu":26qlqf4q said:
...
I disagree that how SeaSport handles the warranty claims of the prior owners is going to materially affect sales of new boats.....

....My suggestion is to see what your dealer can do for you on the warranty, and if it is nothing, do not be suprised and take it like a man. .....
Click to expand...

I'm going to follow Jim's lead and sit on my hands after this post.

I know some who have supported the dissolution of warranties are already out of the original warranty period. The opinions are certainly valid and respected, but they are spectators in this game. I GUARANTEE if you paid six figures for a brand new boat last year and were faced with needing to replace a bad hull (thankfully rare) or other major work you would be singing a different tune. Same applies for dropping high 5 figures on a C25, etc.

In terms of the overall business - make no mistake, there will be a cost for either course of action. Sea Sport will need to make the business decision as to what is necessary for both short and long term interests. It is simply unrealistic to think original owners of brand new boats purchased in the last 4-9 years would "sell" the Sea Sport version of C-dory with the same passion if the company decides to dissolve warranties.

I'm hoping for the best for owners and manufacturer....
 
Fortunately, if traffic on this site is any indication, warranty claims against C-Dory/Fluid for the hull and not the engines, Wallas, etc. are not that frequent. That speaks well to C-Dory manufacturing quality and may encourage the Lindhouts to honor claims on a case-by-case basis for goodwill value alone.

Warren
 
I've purposely stayed OUT of this debate, but as one who recently bought a NEW 2007 boat from a reputable dealer WITH a promise of a full factory hull warranty (and all other warranties from all involved manufacturers; engine, trailer etc) you can imagine my "concern" over this latest change of ownership. I guess I'll see what happens...and hope I NEVER need warranty hull/boat work.
 
Matt, I do not support the "dissolution" of the warranties. I think Fluid Marine warranted your boat, and that they should honor it. As explained previously. SeaSport did not buy the company, only its assets. If they had agreed to take on the warranty claims, the price paid to Fluid would have been lower. I don't know the details and circumstances, but it is likely that a lower price would not have satisfied the secured creditors of Fluid Marine so that a purchase could be accomplished. Perhas Fluid Marine does have some assets. If they do, then anyone with a warranty claim can pursue them legally to make them pay. Odds are against that I imagine.

As you spent about $125K foir a nice new TC255, I am sure you would like SeaSport to go beyond their legal obligations and honor Fluid Marines warranty. But look at it this way. SeaSport did not collect a dime from the sale of your boat. If they are going to pay for everyone's warranty claims, the money has got to come from somewhere. To get the money, they are in effect going to have to make all the new buyers of C-Dories pay for those claims. That doesn't seem too fair, since those owners will already be paying a price to include the costs of their own warranties.

I could make a great analogy here about the current administation's health care bill - someone has to pay. Reminds me of the political saying - if you promise to take from Peter and pay to Paul, you can count on the support of Paul.

If and when someone comes forward with a hull problem that is so severe it cannot be economically repaired, I would hope SeaSport would try to help them out. But if they pay to repair every gel coat crack that is under warranty, it will make it that much more difficult for them to afford to help people that might really need it. I doubt there will be many instances where a hull could not be economically repaired.

Are you really going to put down C-Dory boats because the former owner was a flake, when the new owner is a strong, accomplished boat builder?

I apologize if my posts are a little strident, but I think people need to put the blame on the proper party here, and it is not SeaSport. And I have no connection with SeaSport other than I hope they are successful, and I hope to be able to afford to buy a TC255 from them sometime in the next year or two.
 
I read with interest the comments about the warranties. I have been following this for some time now.

You can make any number of anologies that back either side of the arguement and be "right". I think in the interests of good business sense it would be logical for Sea Sport to come to some compramise.

Think about it, there must have been some value in C-Dory for Sea Sport to purchase assets. They also were "smart" to only buy some assets and not the company thereby limiting their liability. They were not born yesterday and they have been in business so they know how to be ''safe".

I am guessing but I believe that they didn't expect this type of discussion to take place in public like it is.

Again, I can see where they don't want and shouldn't take on full liability for all warranty work. By the same token they should now understand that ducking all responsibility is not good business sense and doesn't help long term goals of improving the "brand".

Since they are knowledgeable and good let them be creative and develop a plan that lets everyone win. Some partial coverage up to a certain limit would give all owners and future owners a sense of comfort and that is worth its weight in gold as a sales point. They become the "good guys" and improve their image.

Well, enough, have a good weekend.

Hank
 
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