Insurance nightmare....please help!

I am also a lawyer, even an Alaska one, but insurance isn't the focus of my practice so I can't add much on that score to what berryst said.

What you are experiencing in my opinion is a hurdle/delay tactic from the insurance company hoping to either discourage you or delay payment or attempt to get you to compromise on the claim to avoid having to hire legal assistance. It is the old "plausible deniability" defense. If you accuse them of bad faith in a legal proceeding, they just point to the surveyor and say "Well we are just following what the expert we hired told us." I would make a small wager that they will pay before a lawsuit is filed if pushed by a competent lawyer or you personally if you are dogged, as I agree this is BS. You just have to demonstrate to them that you will not go away. I would say that the sooner you get them to court, and they start to expend money on lawyers, the quicker they will be to settle. Delay at this point is an end to itself to the insurance company.

In reading your policy I would look to see if you have any business interruption coverage or other means to include time lost during repairs, etc. to add to your claim. I think going to the Marine Surveyor's organizations and the Division of Insurance are good ideas. You may also call the consumer protection people at the state attorney general's office. Not that it is likely that any of the bureaucrats will do anything, but if this becomes a pattern and practice for Travelers, it could get them looked at. Do your part so others may benefit.

Ultimately, I would tell you that if you can't get it resolved, that you may want to consider filing a lawsuit alleging bad faith and seeking punitive damages in the most remote place you can find (does Hoonah have a civil court?) and request a jury trial. In discovery ask them for copies of the file of every boat claim they have ever denied for this reason and every other document you might think could cause them expense to compile and may have some relevant information in it, take a deposition of the adjuster and request he bring copies of every claim he has adjusted for an insurance company and every survey, file lots of motions on whatever topic you can justify and request hearings on every one. I would guess that if you can get a jury trial in some remote court, especially where a lot of the prospective jurors know something about boats, you will have a very sympathetic jury. You could do this yourself and put the insurance company to some serious expense (in effect turning the tables on them). You do however risk the possibility of the court awarding the insurance company a significant sum in attorney fees under Civil Rule 82 if you do not prevail for whatever reason. However, I would recommend you hire a lawyer and have him write an indignant letter to the insurance company explaining why the claim denial is BS and telling them that this is what he is going to do on your behalf if they do not pony up. In Alaska there is what is called Civil Rule 68 (a procedure grossly underutilized by most lawyers) which allows you to make an offer of judgment in a case after it is filed. This offer would allow you to shift a significant part of the cost of your lawyer to the insurance company if you recover more at trial than the amount for which you have offered to settle. This can put added pressure on the insurance company to settle.

An attorney, although not cheap, can save you a lot of time and trouble in cases such as this. It just depends on how much is at issue if you can justify the cost. You can just hire the lawyer to write a letter for you. It doesn't obligate you to have them handle the litigation for you if it is required.

Like berryst said, this is not intended as comprehensive legal advice, but a gut reaction to limited information. We lawyers are obligated to make sure that we do not make anyone believe that we are providing legal advice they can actually rely upon or undertaking representation when discussing matters such as this. In other words, don't expect to be able to sue me for malpractice when my approach blows up in your face unless you are actually paying for my services, lol. I wish I could give you the name of a good lawyer in your area for this, but the last time I did any work in SE Alaska was in the early 90s.
 
No legal advice here, but a general market reference on a fairly limited run of vessels. I suspect you already know about these as it appears to be a small social circle, but if not here you go.

Alaskaboatbrokers has two listed for sale (no relation or commercial interest). One is described as a '99 30ft Tomcat for 95K, the second is described as a 30ft Blackfeather Chilkat 30 115K.

Also on the old craigslist, Chilkat 30 Catamaran Boat Molds Charter Fishing Passenger Water Taxi - $35000 (Juneau).

good luck,
Dave
 
I you haven't already done so, you need to instruct the insurance company that all communication must be in written form so ther there aren't any misunderstandings.

It will work to your advantage becuse they can't deny any statements, or change their story later.
 
excellent advice on getting everything in writing stating NOW. If you do have telephone contact, put it into a log with the person, the date and time and the content of the conversation.
 
You can hit a log and not know it if there is chop. I was on a 55 foot sailboat, which hit a semi submerged container at about 8 knots (determined from point of impact, and type of amount and type of delamination). There was a 10 man crew on deck at the time, and none of use were aware of the actual strike, because of the chop/waves. There are many submerged logs in AK, and it is very easy to miss them--and now know if you hit them. Do not blame your skippers.

A cat can make a lot of noise in chop, and the actual strike would not be heard.

We caught a 1 1/2" branch in a duo prop after a hurricane. The mechanic said submit that as an insurance claim--we did and insurance (Progressive covered all but the $500 deductable for an entire new lower unit.)

Forget about any action against the "surveyor"--if you wish I will repeat my experience in a PM with a incompetent surveyor, who eventually became an officer in SAMS, despite a formal complaint by myself, with extensive documentation, including a survey from another surveyor. (30K worth of damage missed -- and I had asked the appropiate questions--but this guy was an "expert"...not so.) Always check around and get the best surveyor you can find.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I'm positive that there is little doubt by the Insurance company, that I'm going to just "go away". I received a call from the Vice-President of Claims yesterday, and he positively realizes that it's either PAY UP, or we'll let a jury decide. At Travelers expense, they are sending a Surveyor out here to take "another look". So I'm confident that at this point, we will have resolution within a week. Everyone from the Marine Surveyors board, to the 3 other Surveyor I've had inspect the boat, said that it hit something......plain and simple. Not to mention both Fiberglass repair people, and a dozen pictures that clearly show the point of impact. What makes me so angry is that there are a lot of people out there who pay their premiums in good faith. Insurance by definition is suppose to make you feel safe and secure from a financial standpoint. And most people would have just accepted NO as and answer. I've got at least 40 man hours in this, taking away valuable time from my business, just because the Insurance Company is playing a game of poker with my policy. Calling their bluff shouldn't be how we have to get a claim paid.

I'll keep everyone posted!!


Nainu":12q2egxl said:
I am also a lawyer, even an Alaska one, but insurance isn't the focus of my practice so I can't add much on that score to what berryst said.

What you are experiencing in my opinion is a hurdle/delay tactic from the insurance company hoping to either discourage you or delay payment or attempt to get you to compromise on the claim to avoid having to hire legal assistance. It is the old "plausible deniability" defense. If you accuse them of bad faith in a legal proceeding, they just point to the surveyor and say "Well we are just following what the expert we hired told us." I would make a small wager that they will pay before a lawsuit is filed if pushed by a competent lawyer or you personally if you are dogged, as I agree this is BS. You just have to demonstrate to them that you will not go away. I would say that the sooner you get them to court, and they start to expend money on lawyers, the quicker they will be to settle. Delay at this point is an end to itself to the insurance company.

In reading your policy I would look to see if you have any business interruption coverage or other means to include time lost during repairs, etc. to add to your claim. I think going to the Marine Surveyor's organizations and the Division of Insurance are good ideas. You may also call the consumer protection people at the state attorney general's office. Not that it is likely that any of the bureaucrats will do anything, but if this becomes a pattern and practice for Travelers, it could get them looked at. Do your part so others may benefit.

Ultimately, I would tell you that if you can't get it resolved, that you may want to consider filing a lawsuit alleging bad faith and seeking punitive damages in the most remote place you can find (does Hoonah have a civil court?) and request a jury trial. In discovery ask them for copies of the file of every boat claim they have ever denied for this reason and every other document you might think could cause them expense to compile and may have some relevant information in it, take a deposition of the adjuster and request he bring copies of every claim he has adjusted for an insurance company and every survey, file lots of motions on whatever topic you can justify and request hearings on every one. I would guess that if you can get a jury trial in some remote court, especially where a lot of the prospective jurors know something about boats, you will have a very sympathetic jury. You could do this yourself and put the insurance company to some serious expense (in effect turning the tables on them). You do however risk the possibility of the court awarding the insurance company a significant sum in attorney fees under Civil Rule 82 if you do not prevail for whatever reason. However, I would recommend you hire a lawyer and have him write an indignant letter to the insurance company explaining why the claim denial is BS and telling them that this is what he is going to do on your behalf if they do not pony up. In Alaska there is what is called Civil Rule 68 (a procedure grossly underutilized by most lawyers) which allows you to make an offer of judgment in a case after it is filed. This offer would allow you to shift a significant part of the cost of your lawyer to the insurance company if you recover more at trial than the amount for which you have offered to settle. This can put added pressure on the insurance company to settle.

An attorney, although not cheap, can save you a lot of time and trouble in cases such as this. It just depends on how much is at issue if you can justify the cost. You can just hire the lawyer to write a letter for you. It doesn't obligate you to have them handle the litigation for you if it is required.

Like berryst said, this is not intended as comprehensive legal advice, but a gut reaction to limited information. We lawyers are obligated to make sure that we do not make anyone believe that we are providing legal advice they can actually rely upon or undertaking representation when discussing matters such as this. In other words, don't expect to be able to sue me for malpractice when my approach blows up in your face unless you are actually paying for my services, lol. I wish I could give you the name of a good lawyer in your area for this, but the last time I did any work in SE Alaska was in the early 90s.
 
That boat mold on craigslist is the original mold for these boats. And you're right.....they were designed "specifically" for Charter. I have forwarded all that information to the insurance company, just so they could see that there was a good chance that their Surveyor didn't know his ass from a hole in the ground. Thanks for the research......I can't tell you how much I appreciate everyone's help and input. It really has been valuable to me.

Donna

KickerDRB":1c9tgxgy said:
No legal advice here, but a general market reference on a fairly limited run of vessels. I suspect you already know about these as it appears to be a small social circle, but if not here you go.

Alaskaboatbrokers has two listed for sale (no relation or commercial interest). One is described as a '99 30ft Tomcat for 95K, the second is described as a 30ft Blackfeather Chilkat 30 115K.

Also on the old craigslist, Chilkat 30 Catamaran Boat Molds Charter Fishing Passenger Water Taxi - $35000 (Juneau).

good luck,
Dave
 
".... I've got at least 40 man hours in this, taking away valuable time from my business, just because the Insurance Company is playing a game of poker with my policy. Calling their bluff shouldn't be how we have to get a claim paid. "

Offer the Insurance Company a chance to make that up to you, at your usual hourly rate, and be sure they know they have the option to meet you and the jury in the local court. Sounds like you also would have a good chance to recover legal fees and court costs...... so your 40 hours might be a bargain for them too.

Wishing you the best, and good work.

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
Sorry to hear about your troubles-looks like you are getting close to an agreement. I think that some companies will say no to any claim on first pass. As discussed-how many people accept that and walk away? Glad you are a bull dog.
Travelers dropped my home owner's insurance with only a 30 day notice.
There were no claims and all bills were paid on time-like you said-they are happy to take our money. It was a shock to open that letter and be told I had 30 days to get alternate insurance. Big trouble-once they dropped me all companies were notified and I had one heck of a time getting insurance. Farm Bureau came to the rescue.
Sorry Travelers-I have been speaking poorly of you for 20 years to anyone that will listen and will continue until I no longer need home owners insurance-what did that cost you?!
Thanks for your determination!
Pete
 
Hi Pete,

My Grandfather always told me that there are 3 sides to every story...he said....she said.....and the truth. But one thing I've discovered over the course of the last two weeks, is there are many indivduals that are insured with Travelers, that are going through the same thing. If you get on Facebook, you'll see dozens of "posts" where people are complaining about getting a letter, with only 30 days notice, and having to secure new insurance. There IS safety in numbers. And you are correct, I am a Bulldog!!! Thank you for putting it so eloquinntly, I'm sure Travelers discription would be more along the lines of female dog.

I'll keep you posted as to what the final outcome is.

Donna

NCPete":2rdkfsco said:
Sorry to hear about your troubles-looks like you are getting close to an agreement. I think that some companies will say no to any claim on first pass. As discussed-how many people accept that and walk away? Glad you are a bull dog.
Travelers dropped my home owner's insurance with only a 30 day notice.
There were no claims and all bills were paid on time-like you said-they are happy to take our money. It was a shock to open that letter and be told I had 30 days to get alternate insurance. Big trouble-once they dropped me all companies were notified and I had one heck of a time getting insurance. Farm Bureau came to the rescue.
Sorry Travelers-I have been speaking poorly of you for 20 years to anyone that will listen and will continue until I no longer need home owners insurance-what did that cost you?!
Thanks for your determination!
Pete
 
I sooooo appreciate how amazing everyone on this site has been. I only report factual. What I can prove with testimony and photos. I know almost nothing about boats, but I am an excellent researcher (we all have to be good at something), I immediately got on the phone and computer when this accident happened, and started looking for experts who could help me get this boat repaired, and back in the water safely. I consider it a huge responsibility, one that I don't take lightly, to return all these fisherman back to their families in the same condition they came to me. I don't look for the cheapest repairman I look for the best! One of my Boat-wrights bid came in at $35.00 per hour, as opposed to $75.00 (the guy I hired), but the $35.00 per hour guy did not have the same quality of expertise. He's only been in the business for a few years, as opposed to the guy I hired, who's been doing it for 25 years. I hope that every boat on the water and lodge owner, doesn't cut corners when lives are at stake. I usually work from this approach, I hire float planes (and pilots) that I would feel comfortable sending my own children or grandchildren with. I want our boats with the same comfort level.

Again, thanks for your input.....I'll keep everyone posted on the outcome!

Donna

Will-C":3asgl7u8 said:
I'm not a lawyer but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
What does your agent say? I would try to explain that there is bad blood in between you and the the guy they sent out. Since they can't prove the boat was or was not designed for commerical use that argument is where I would start. If you are going to start a law suit I would name the adjuster/ surveyor, your agent who should have told you your boat was not designed for commercial use before they started tsking your money, and the company. Get you story out there anyway you can fishimng reports,Facebook,fishing forums etc. Be careful to just state the facts. It might end up to be cheaper for them to pay the claim then to have to defend themselves. We are praying for you. I won't ever buy Travelers Insurance
D.D.
 
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