HP ratings

P

pcg

Member
I have two questions regarding HP rating for a 22’ Cruiser. My ’99 has a decal stating that recommended HP is 70 and max HP is 100. The factory website states that [max] HP is 115.

1) What are the criteria for determining what is “recommended”? Why not recommend 100HP instead of 70HP?

2) Why is a ’99 22’ Cruiser rated max 100 HP, and the newer boats rated 115 HP?
 
1. So the dealer can offer the cheaper "recommended" engine as the base.

2.Maybe changes in methodology or criteria for determining max hp.

David
 
DavidM":2rsjh96i said:
2.Maybe changes in methodology or criteria for determining max hp.
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I wonder how the USCG and insurance companies would view putting a 115HP motor on a 1999 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 100HP max), vs. a 2019 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 115HP max)?
 
pcg":dhn8difq said:
DavidM":dhn8difq said:
2.Maybe changes in methodology or criteria for determining max hp.
Click to expand...
I wonder how the USCG and insurance companies would view putting a 115HP motor on a 1999 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 100HP max), vs. a 2019 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 115HP max)?
Click to expand...

You'd also have to ask what changes were made to the boat design or the boat construction between the '99 and '19 models that may account for the different HP ratings.

Perhaps a change to the engine power to weight ratio makes a difference. A '19 115hp engine might now weigh the same as a '99 100hp engine.

But the lawyers will probably say you have to go by the sticker.
 
Earlier, over the years, some have asked about some of these questions.

I seem to remember that the older Classic 22 was designed for a 70 hp 2-stroke motor that typically weighed about 260 lbs.

The more recent (1987-present) CD-22 Cruiser was allowed 100 hp, and most of them left dealerships with 90 hp 4-stroke Hondas that weighed about 100 lbs more than the 2-stroke 70s.

Later the max hp rating was raised to 115 by the manufacturer, I think, utilizing newer rating standards by ABYC manufacturers group.

I also remember some C-Dory owner asking for and receiving a new rating sticker from the factory. (Smart move!)

Writing this from a somewhat nebulous memory bank at 77, so no guarantees of absolute fact, but done in good faith, anyway! :lol:

Joe. :teeth :thup
 
I suppose that an insurance company might refuse a claim, if a larger motor was used--but pretty unlikely. I put a 225 on a Grady White rated for 200 hp--asked the insurance company--and told that there was no issue.

There as been on discernible changes on the 22's as far as lamination schedule, when the increased HP was tagged. I would not hesitate to put on a 100 or 115, as long as it weighed the same. But going to a 150--that could be questionable.
 
thataway":12068kld said:
I would not hesitate to put on a 100 or 115, as long as it weighed the same.
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Honda BF90 is 359#. Evinrude's new 3-cyl G2 E-TEC 115 weighs 390#. I have a couple years before I buy so will be interested to see how this motor performs, especially re. fuel efficiency.
 
Presently, I’m waiting for a price quote & ok from factory for EQ Marine to sell & rig twin Tohatsu 60’s. Their total weight of 434 lbs is only 6 lbs more than my present twin Honda 1999 40’s at 428 lbs. This new MFS Tohatsu 60 hp is new for 2019 & I think could possible be the perfect twin set set up for a CD22. Properly propped this may allow a CD22 to plane on one of its twins if needed. On Yellowstone Lake at near 8000 feet elevation my present twin 40 Honda’s only put out 61 hp & with a medium load, I can do 19 mph & be in specs on max rpm.

My concerns are the price increase & fuel economy compared to my other choices of either the Honda or Tohatsu 40 & 50 hp motors. I will also be getting price quotes from Sportscraft Marine in Portland & a local Honda dealer in Salt Lake City.

On a side note about EQ Marine. When at the Friday Harbor Gathering, I was told Karl their long time mechanic & rigger was retiring. Kathy informed me, this was not so & if I purchased from them, the motors would be rigged by him, as he had no plans of retiring at this time or the known future. She was rather horrified that that rumor was going round & I told Her I would inform the C-Brats of this.

Jay
 
Jay, I hope you get the approval for the new Tohatsu 60 hp twin engines. You will have more power, more speed and less engine strain at a comfortable cruising rpm of 3500 to 3700 rpm and should have less engine noise. The engine has Lean Burn Control and you should also notice an increase in fuel economy.

If you use Sportcraft Marina in Portland, Oregon, they will do a great job for you as they have always done for us and others.

Gary and Colleen.
 
pcg":1edqj4g6 said:
I wonder how the USCG and insurance companies would view putting a 115HP motor on a 1999 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 100HP max), vs. a 2019 22' Cruiser (decal rating of 115HP max)?
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The current models don't actually specify a max HP on the decal. At least not on my 2016. The decal just says something like "complies with specifications on file at NMI on the date of manufacturer". I'm sure those files would say 115hp, but at least in the scenario of an inspection by the Coast Guard or Sheriff, it would be hard for them to cite anything especially if on a weekend when the manufacturer is closed. Also if NMI won't send you a new sticker as suggested there are several companies on the interwebz that will print anything you want them to. You could have one printed to look exactly like the current 22's, which don't state the hp rating.

Jay- exciting news about the twin 60s, what a great setup that will be!

-Mike
 
We have a cape cruiser venture 23 It is hull number 3 It has a Coast Guard sticker of 120 hp. (I did not want to go over 120hp)The newer CC Ventures had a 150 Hp rating My boat came with a 115 Yamaha a great engine BTW When we were hearing EPA might require catalytic converters for new outboards I decided to buy a new engine I went with a Mercury CT 115 What an awesome motor around the dock or close quarters it has a lot more torque also speed is about the same as Yamaha 115 it has the 150 hp Merc lower unit The only difference is top speed 35mph vs. 42 or so with a 150 Hp

So far we have 240 hours on a 3 year motor
 
My 2007 I ask the factory to install a Suzuki 115 and they told me it was more weight then HP at the time the 90 and 115 were the same motor. They told me that any boat over 21 feet is not required to have a sticker and left mine off. Six months later the new stickers said 115 on them. I don't think they did anything just printed new stickers. So just peel the sticker off.
 
My 1983 Angler Classic , bought new at the factory, came without a sticker. I installed a 115 hp Johnson and ran it for 15 years w/o any problems. After a few years I wondered about no sticker and the heavy motor so i wrote Marc Toland at the factory and he sen t me a new sticker with 115 hp max.
Problem solved.

Jack in Alaska
 
I kind of like the idea of twin 60's but why is no one considering Yamaha? I don't know about service for the other brands in Canada but i do know that way over half the OB's I see up there are Yamis, and that is not just on recreational boats, but the work boats, (water taxis and camp and lodge boats).

There has to be a good reason for that.

(Is it the weight factor, and that they are 50, 60 and 70 all on the same block and frame?

Harvey
SleepyC :moon

9_Sept_Seq_2019_Cal.thumb.jpg
 
Harvey, I can only reply for myself. The closest motor service for me of any type is 155 one way miles, so I have been forced to do my own maintenance other then for a few minor exceptions, making motor make, not all that important, also very little of my future cruising is planned for BC waters. With twins the Yamaha 60’s are 60 lbs heavier then the Tohatsu with the Tohatsu having more amp output. The Tohatsu seems to have an extremely good reputation as do the other major outboard makes at the present time. My present motor controls & gauges are 1999 era, so all must be replaced too. I’m looking for the best power to weight ratio & torque output over the rpm range with overall cost & fuel milage, the main other considerations.

EQ won’t presently mount the 60 hp motors without the factory upgrading to 120 hp, so if that doesn’t change & someone else will, with the sticker removed it will be considered by me.

Jay
 
Reading through these messages I see in some of them a similar thread. "Instead of 50hp twins, I want 60hp twins but the sticker says 115hp max" Or in the case of a single motor, "Why can't I have a 120hp engine instead of a smaller one"? In both scenarios the new generation more powerful motors are only a few lbs heavier than the old carb type.
No one has talked about the torque a more powerful engine(s) puts on the transom! My other question is......If the twin 50s or single 115hp will have you on plane at 28mph, why do you want more power? Is it so you can go faster and plane at 34mph? Just asking.
Also I don't think insurance companies like you exceeding the max hp printed on the sticker, or peeling the sticker off. Just saying.

Martin.
 
bridma":1e1rghly said:
why do you want more power?
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As the OP and speaking just for myself, I don't want more power. I'd be happy with 90hp, but I'm specifically interested in the G2 E-TEC 2-cycle outboards from Evinrude, and the new 115hp is the first that's been available in that low of a range. Until now, there were no G2 motors one could put on a C-Dory, they were all too big. I didn't mention this because I didn't want this thread to turn into another outboard motor debate, of which there is no shortage on the Internet.
 
bridma":29awyhny said:
...If the twin 50s or single 115hp will have you on plane at 28mph, why do you want more power? Is it so you can go faster and plane at 34mph? ...
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IME, the 22 gets pretty squirrelly around 30mph. I wouldn't want to go any faster than that.
 
More hp for me isn’t about max speed of being able to do 30+ mph. I’m pleased to obtain 13 to 20 mph & 80% of our over 20,000 cruising miles in our CD 22 has been at below 7 mph. What I’d like to be able to do is place the boat where I wanted on waves for safety sake in rough seas, be able to plane if needed on one of the twin motors & when planing at 13 to 20 mph have the motor noise to be much quieter. How much more torque there is in the 60 hp motors & where it is in the rpm range is a major concern of mine. If the increased 10 to 20 hp is only available in the over 5000 rpm range, then I would consider it worthless hp for me as it’s only good for increased speed at max rpm. In the past I was told this was true about the Honda 40 vs 50. I’ve asked for clarification on this here in the past with no answers & Honda does not publish hp, torque & rpm comparison graphs, that I can find.

If the law doesn’t require stickers showing hp ratings for boats over 21 feet & several here have stated it’s not a problem, I highly doubt a 5 hp increase will cause any problems with insurance, especially with weight near the same & insurance notified when applying or in the motor change process.

Jay
 
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