How to handle rough seas

M

matt_unique

New member
There are skippers with a lot more experience than me on this board, but Mike's request on the other thread sounded like a good idea and an interesting topic to discuss.

I'll start with my advice:

1.) AVOID IT - this is the obvious cliche but seldom respected enough. If you go out on the ocean with weather data less than 4 hours old, with the technology available today, bend over and have your Admiral kick you firmly in the rear end. There are many sources of weather data but I use these: http://www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/marine_map.htm They tend to be updated every 4-6 hours. I also use these: http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/ (Move the map to your area, zoom in, then select the most applicable buoy for the most recent wind/wave data).

2.) Keep an eye to the sky and on your barometer. The above weather forecasts are not 100% accurate. You may read seas 2-3' then arrive to discover 4' or 5' seas. If your barometer makes a drop, particularly a steep drop over a very short period of time, there could be trouble.

Here's a rule of thumb...quite literally and figuratively...take your left hand, make a fist with your thumb up. That is the way the winds blow around a 'high' pressure system. High pressure is good in terms of sun but can also mean strong winds. Do the same with your left hand in a fist and thumb pointed down. That is the way the wind blows around a low pressure system. Low pressure is what brings storms, hurricane's, etc. The worst place to be in a hurricane or storm is on the side that has the direction of wind travel COUPLED with the direction of the storm. For example, a hurricane moving up the East Coast at say 18 mph with winds of 130mph means east side winds will be 130 + 18 = 148 MPH. Similarly, the west side means 130 - 18 mph = 112 MPH.

3.) Look for trends in the weather forecasts. While they are not 100% accurate, the trends will paint a pretty good picture. Let's say you are looking to take an overnight trip and you are looking at the marine forecast on Wednesday. Friday (day) looks a little rough, Friday night and Saturday looks good, and Sunday looks a little rough. There is a *good*chance the Friday rough weather will end up extending into Friday night or Saturday. Similarly, the rough weather for Sunday may arrive sooner than expected. Of course, 24 hours could pass and the entire weekend could look good.

4.) I was reminded of this last season for those who read my trip report of the largest seas I have ever handled - but don't try to 'thread the needle' of rough weather forecasts and BEWARE OF "get home itus". Get home itus has killed a lot of people.

I guarantee you and the Admiral would prefer to get home later than expected in calmer weather than getting home on time in hair raising weather.

5.) Don't be afraid to 'call it'. If you have good weather forecasts, you have your back-up systems, you have calculated your fuel and added a reserve, etc. but you arrive and the seas don't look good....call it or adjust your plans to negate the rougher weather.

I learned this lesson flying airplanes years ago. My flight instructor was former Secret Service, had acrobatics experience, had thousands of hours of flight time including turbine engines, etc. I had complete confidence in his abilities. (Soon after I got my license he went to work for Continental). During my Private Pilot training (even before my first solo) he took me up in "Moderate Winds with risk of low level wind shear". The airport was on a large bluff so the affects of strong wind were really pronounced. Long story short, we were getting tossed hard in our single engine Beechcraft. The instructor wanted me to do touch and go's. One instant we are pinned to our seatbelts, the next instant dropping down. I could barely spell my name let alone run through my checklists as we went from downwind, base, and final approach. We were on final approach and it was just silly...at 300' I finally said...I don't think I can safely land this plane in these conditions. He looked over and said "YES! You learned the point of today's instruction". He demonstrated a few touch and go's but it was not at all fun. Finally on the ground - and I was happy to be there - he said the most important lesson is to know your limits and to be capable of deciding to call it if something does not look good.

6.) Fair seas never made for good mariners.

If you only ever cruise in calm seas, you will be less equipped to deal with rough weather. Don't do anything crazy - but make a point to get some exposure to stronger winds, rain, larger seas, etc. Do so in as controlled and safe a circumstance as possible. Don't go into open ocean during the next storm but incrementally get a feel for how everything works/feels on the water. Take a more experience skipper with you and leave a float plan with someone reliable (i.e. Will be in X Bay from 2-4 - you should hear from me by 4 to let you know all is OK, etc.,)

7.) OK - life happens and you end up in rough weather. "Rough" will be very relative to the skipper. What I find rough may be considered a 'slight chop' to Dr. Bob for example. A few things are common denominators though.
a. Make sure everything is secured on your deck/cabin/etc. It's just bad nautical karma if you let anything flop around. If waves toss your vessel you DON'T want things like coolers, passengers, etc. shifting around and causing damage, injury, or adding weight in a potential capsize event. A classic problem is large heavy coolers - if a wave heels your boat hard to port you don't want an added weight sliding to that side for example.
b. Close your windows - fresh air is good - fresh sea water is bad.
c. Maneuver your vessel to minimize the affect of wind and sea state. DO NOT let waves hit you abeam as this presents the greatest risk for a capsize. It is better to hit waves head on and under power but at an angle. The degree of angle depends a bit upon how steep they are but try to think of maneuvering such that your forward quarter rises up first and your opposite aft quarter rises last. Don't have too much power though as this can cause you to accelerate down the back side of a wave and go bow first into the next one causing a broach. Use just enough power to maintain directional control. A broach can add several hundred pounds of water in a flash and cause damage or worse.
d. If you need to turn do so quickly. In some cases, it is better to have seas hit you from astern with only enough power to maintain directional control. This really depends on the shape of the waves. If they are really steep a wave over the stern can immediately flood your vessel. In some cases it can allow them to safely pass under you. I employed this technique when I was stuck in rough seas last year on Napoleon. In that instance getting to safety for us meant traveling in a direction that would not allow sufficient time for me to turn to take waves head on and I had to take them from astern. Just keep in mind you NEVER want to take seas abeam.
e. Maneuver your vessel to the lee side of an island if possible. This means the island is taking the hit of waves/sea resulting in a calmer footprint behind it.

There is so much more to write based on the particular circumstances... and I hope others will chime in with their wisdom.
 
Don't be afraid to 'call it'.
Click to expand...

Done it personally. The Admiral let me have the decision and was 100% supportive. We had planned to anchor overnight while our pots soaked, but we could not find a reasonably close, suitable anchorage that would properly protect us from the increasing wind/swells. I knew in 5 min that we could not spend the night there safely. "We're going in..."
 
I've been making the go/no-go decision for many years, first as a pilot, now as a boater. Calling a trip isn't a sign of weakness, it's a judgment call.

Here on the lake where I am working this summer, I have canceled a couple trips and aborted another. Err on the side of safety. The wind that we get coming through the mountain canyons can be very impressive; add in thunderstorms and there are plenty of reasons to call a trip.

Captain Matt's post is right on. :thup :thup On the cruiseboats I am driving, the boats can take more than I can; I can probably take more than the passengers... I go with the "least common denominator", keeping the passengers' comfort and safety in mind. Management stands behind the captains' decisions.

On your own boat, scare your first mate and they may not want to do another outing with you. Only one time in the years that we have been boating have I heard the words, "I am never sailing with you again!" We were racing a sailboat and the conditions were pretty darn awful... the Blonde said those words to me when we were 4/5 of the way through a 60+ mile race. I dropped sail and canned the race. And apologized. At the time, I thought it was exhilarating... she had her arms braced around the lifelines. We all have different tolerances.

Thank you, Matt, for that thoughtful post.

Best wishes,
Jim B.
 
JamesTXSD":e0gz0ba7 said:
I've been making the go/no-go decision for many years, first as a pilot, now as a boater. Calling a trip isn't a sign of weakness, it's a judgment call.
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Ditto
 
A couple items I might add:

- as previously mentioned, loose items should already be stowed/secured
- telling passengers to don PFD's may be alarming, but it instantly communicates that "this is not a drill." ...this is very Real; do as I say. Take Command.
- have passengers sit down and hold-on, bracing as necessary. The last thingyour need is for a passenger to be injured during this mess....
- all passengers in secure areas, no one outside (and certainly not on deck) w/o your permission.
- make sure your SPOT device is turned on, and operational.
- consider communicating your situation if in radio contact with a buddy boat, marina, or the USCG. Remember: Identification, Location, Situation, people on board, and intensions. This does NOT mean calling a Mayday or Pan. The USCG does not charge for answering your radio calls, and I suspect even welcomes a Captain's acknowledgement of a situation encountered. I've done this twice in forty years of boating, and they haven't charged me yet! Remember: if conditions deteriorate further and you actually HAVE an emergency you'll be Real busy; and radio com's (then) probably won't be your first priority. (And if you don't have comm's, it's nice to be aware of that too - it just raises the pucker factor a bit).
- if appropriate, try to remember where your ditch-bag is; (not the time to remember that you don't have one).
- during the actual boat-handling (...angling into the Sea, etc) you will likely be going very slow, and NOT following your intended route. Consider "zippering" your course (like tacking a sailboat back-and-forth). It'll make your trip much longer (remember fuel burn...) but more likely survivable.
- consider revising your destination. Is there a safe location that is more reachable? A safe location doesn't necessary mean a marina, as previously mentioned it could also mean the lee of an island or peninsula, or the wake of a much larger vessel (I once followed a 110' USCG cutter for about ten miles, and let him "brake trail" for me. I offered to buy the crew a 'round when I got in. The Captain declined, but they got the point.)
- when cruising, I can't remember how many time's I've uttered the words: "...maybe we'll look at it again, tomorrow."
- time for some more C-Brat inputs.

Best,
Casey
 
I would add that it's best if you never have to ask your passengers to don their PFD's AFTER you have left the dock - it's best to have them don their PFD's PRIOR to leaving the dock. E.g. people should ALWAYS have them on as they only work when they are worn. Buy good, comfortable, self inflating PFDs and it really isn't a big deal to wear them at all times. While big seas might be a time in which one can predict that a PFD is more likely to be helpful, it's the other unexpected stuff that happens in which the need for a PFD was not predicted prior to the occurrence. Often unexpected stuff happens very quickly and when there's a MOB from such an unexpected happening, it's too late to suggest they don their PFDs.
 
If I may add, the greatest asset to any boater is the loss of "EGO" I went on a number of trips with a friend, and he was a guy who would go all out and everyone be damned when he ran his boat. Well his ignorance caught up to him and he lost his boat in bad weather when he told his fishing pals "were staying" No one was hurt and all made it back, but his stupidity cost him a nice boat!! And NO I was not on board, I learned a year earlier that this guy was not Safe!
 
An evenly distributed load is something easily overlooked, a 22 cruiser for example has the tendancy to be stern heavy at most times. The use of trim tabs and /or a permatrim has limited effect in large seas at displacement speed. From my experience locating as much weight forward as possible ( within reason of course ) before heading out into large seas helps alot with comfort and reduces the bow slap common with this hull design. Of course port / starboard load distribution is also important.
 
Get-home-itis has got to be the cause of more of my near misses and accidents in life than anything else. I think I have finally learned to recognize it and admit to myself that it is better to go slow, stop for the night, re-group and rethink. Nothing seems to cause tunnel vision like get-home-itis, at least in me. I still have to fight the urge in some circumstances.

It is amazing how this condition will get you to make a decision that, even one or two hours earlier, you would never make. I would characterize it as "mild panic" and the desire to be free and clear of the present situation, or an overwhelming urge to prevent the consequences or expense of delaying, not realizing that if the plan goes south, the consequence are much more severe than what you are imagining.
 
Casey,

I liked your story of following a 110' cutter. A couple of years ago I came out of Culross Passage to cross Port Wells. The wind was blowing pretty good down Port Wells making for 3-5 foot seas directly on the beam if you were heading to Whittier. I did a northerly tack up into Port Wells to keep the seas on the bow and plodded along at about 10-12 mph. After about 10 minutes of slogging along, I looked out the back and saw 5 boats following me, all of which were bigger. I didn't know a 22 was that effective at breaking seas. As we got further west things calmed down a bit and they all passed me.

Tom
 
#1. Inflatable PFD's only count IF they are on. No question there. USCG says that they must be on to count. I just tell my passengers that it is not an option, no matter the sea state.

#2. Already mentioned but easily missed. Forward hatch is down and latched, any time we go out of the bay. Center window is latched down into the open but latched slot anytime we are moving on teh water. If it looks bumpy, it gets latched closed. Water can come in there too, (Don't ask how I know.)

Harvey
SleepyC :moon
 
hardee":y9tt5k78 said:
#1. Inflatable PFD's only count IF they are on. No question there. USCG says that they must be on to count. I just tell my passengers that it is not an option, no matter the sea state.

<stuff clipped>
Harvey
SleepyC :moon
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Exactly. That why I carry only inflatable PFD's (or at least tell my passengers that's all I have). That way there's no arguing about them putting them on. I can "blame" it on the coast guard rules. I have had a few friends who didn't want to wear a PFD when asked by me. It's easier to just say "it's the law".
 
To each his own, but personally I think the use of PFD's in the cabin or cockpit of a 22' C-Dory in normal conditions to be excessively burdensome especially on a long cruise. I do try to make it a point to not go out of the cockpit or along the outside cabin or to the bow for lowering or raising the anchor without either the inflatable PFD or the jacket half of our Mustang suits which also work as a PFD. Jo-Lee is not bashful about reminding me if I forget. When knowing we are going into extreme conditions such as crossing a dangerous bar or rounding a point or cape where rip tides could really be bad we have been known to wear the complete Mustang suit along with neoprene kayak boots.

In some past extreme conditions Jo-Lee has put the seat cushions on the floor and laid on them while putting pillows around here head. This center of the boat below sea level position helps with here sea sickness and prevents her from being thrown around. The C-Dory can definitely take more then us inside. With enough miles cruising in remote areas or even not so remote, no matter how well the plans most boaters will find themselfes eventually at the helm with the boat in conditions they wished they were not in. At that time the most important thing to me is keeping calm so your able to do what needs to be done when it needs to be to get the boat back to a safe place.

Jay
 
An especially timely topic for me. I have a friend arriving soon from Colorado, an avid sportsmen/fisherman, who will be joining me on my first trip outside the ICW to the Gulfstream, about 25 miles out, to fish for Mahi. I have to admit, I'm nervous about it. I've trolled 5 miles out but never out of site of land. I've already prefaced my friend on the fact that conditions might dictate that we stay inside and he is good with my call... If conditions permit, I plan on leaving out of the Sebastian Inlet before sunrise and returning around noon before the atmosphere heats up and generates the expected afternoon thunderstorms. Would you salty fellas give me a little primer on how you approach, consider and execute a trip like this? Given my limited experience? What parameters should I access, observe and consider? I think I know... but appreciate and trust the collective experience of the people on this site that have/has provided me with invaluable information and perspective on a wealth of subjects. I generally just lurk and soak up what I can without comment but want you to know I appreciate your input!

Mike
 
Mikey":2etsxunv said:
An especially timely topic for me. I have a friend arriving soon from Colorado, an avid sportsmen/fisherman, who will be joining me on my first trip outside the ICW to the Gulfstream, about 25 miles out, to fish for Mahi. I have to admit, I'm nervous about it. I've trolled 5 miles out but never out of site of land. I've already prefaced my friend on the fact that conditions might dictate that we stay inside and he is good with my call... If conditions permit, I plan on leaving out of the Sebastian Inlet before sunrise and returning around noon before the atmosphere heats up and generates the expected afternoon thunderstorms. Would you salty fellas give me a little primer on how you approach, consider and execute a trip like this? Given my limited experience? What parameters should I access, observe and consider? I think I know... but appreciate and trust the collective experience of the people on this site that have/has provided me with invaluable information and perspective on a wealth of subjects. I generally just lurk and soak up what I can without comment but want you to know I appreciate your input!

Mike
Click to expand...
While I'm not really an "old salt", I do fish a fair bit well offshore. For me the most useful planning tool I have used is the WetSand SwellWatch site. Here's a link to the sight with a map showing your region. The map displays "heat maps" in which the color indicate predicted conditions. At the top of the map you'll see three tabs for swell, period and wind. You can cycle through these to see the predicted height and directions of swells, the predicted period of the swells (time between swells) and the predicted wind speed and direction. At the bottom of the map is a time line and you can click there to see the predictions for the next several days. Of course, like any forecast these are subject to change. However, I've found the predictions to be pretty good a couple of days out. Also, if you see predictions that look fabulous 3 or 4 days in a row and your planned trip is centered in the middle of that streak, it's highly likely to be very nice that day. The same logic applies if your planned trip is in the middle of several projected lousy days.

So, what constitutes a "good" or "bad" projection? Large swells alone doesn't mean that the water will be unmanageable to you and the boat as what really matters is a combination of swell height, period and wind. As far as the wind goes, lower is always better and I don't mind wind of <15kts. I can manage in up to 25kts (usually) but don't like it and usually don't go when the wind will be above 20kts. As far as swells, as long as the period in seconds is 2 or more greater than the height in feet, the swells are generally quite manageable - especially for swells of 5-6' or less. Once the swells start to get above 6' then I like a period that 3-4s longer than the height in feet. I've had my 22' in about 10-12' swells but they had an 18s period and the wind was low. It's was manageable and even fishable but definitely sea-sick inducing. I've also been out in 3-4' swells with a 3-4s period and it's quite nasty where as 3-4' swells with an 8s period seems almost flat. Once you get used to looking at the short term projections and have been out in the water, you begin to develop a mental image of what the water will look like for a given combination of swell height, period and wind. Then it becomes much easier to make a good go/no-go decision. However, without that experience, 4' swells (even at 8s period and 0kts of wind), might sound scary.
 
Very nice explanation of when to go by Roger. Another rule of thumb that it used by us guys who spend a lot of time offshore is, if the swell height and the wind waves add up to more than the period, stay home.
Forrest
 
Thank you all! I already feel more confident (not too) with the tools and advice provided. More than I had hoped for..exactly what I needed.
After reviewing the information however, looks like I'm staying inside and drifting the inlet this weekend.
 
Mikey,

Two more recommendations:

(1) Spend a little time actually listening to the wx forecasts a few days before you go out. Learn to write-down the necessary information in your own sort of shorthand. Learn the locations your local forecast uses, and where they are; some will be more relevant to your needs than others. Once you're familiar with the wx forecasts sequence, and the locations they use, it'll all make a lot more sense. (and your notes won't just be a bunch of gibberish.)

(2) If possible, make a trip out the Inlet (maybe by yourself...) and become familiar with the locale. Note where the lights are, look at the horizon skyline as your come back in, and learn to recognize the area in daylight, and it won't be as daunting at nighttime. (This also works well in learning to operate with radar; first, do it in "visible" conditions!)

Have a good trip!

Best,
Casey
 
These are all excellent observations & suggestions. Jay & Jo-Lee -- I thought I was the only one using the cabin sole trick! When it's really uncomfortable I try to get my youngest (the only one who is prone to seasickness) to bundle up on the floor. It is quite comfy. He prefers the V-Berth -- which of course just makes him barf. (We should start a thread on barfing etiquette... hint -- keep a bucket nearby...)

I've been using BuoyData (by Verona) -- its a free app for the iphone and it gives realtime (well... within 30-60 minutes) NOAA buoy data for nearby and 'favorite' buoys you might select -- and it links to NOAA weather for that buoy location. It's easier to navigate than the NOAA website -- and of course mobile.

That said -- I have a question. Buoy wave data is reported (at least out here offshore) in both Dominant Wave Period and Average Wave Period. Today, for example, the San Pedro Channel has 3' wave height at 13 seconds DWP and 5.1 seconds Average Period. I am assuming the difference is the swell vs swell + wind wave. That is, the swell is 13 seconds but the chop (wind wave etc) is averaging 5.1 seconds.

So, in big seas -- e.g., 6 foot swell plus 2-3 foot wind wave -- the 6' swell period is 13 seconds, but the 2-3 foot wind wave is averaging 5.1 seconds. Is this correct? That's my impression when I'm on the water.

Thanks!

Matt
 
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