House battery(ies) monitor

thataway,

Sounds like the 50% efficiency factor is big enough to account for all the items you discuss.

I care because I have recently purchased a ProMarine 36 amp charger for my 2 battery home bank (each battery is 60 Ah....group 24, I presume). So the 25% of capacity charge rate seems fine. Also, if I use the 50% "discount" to handle everything from 14.4v, to heat and so forth, it would seem I would need about 7 amps or about 850 watts from my Honda 2000i to drive the charger at full blast.

P.S. My reason for installing the high capacity charger (haven't installed it yet) is that the 5 amp Guest charger that is on the boat now is wholly inadequate to keep the batteries charged when I cruise. I hang on an anchor 80% of the time (i.e., no shore power); so unless I run the outboard, I can't keep up with the refer, digital equipment, etc uses with the 5 amp charger and my i2000 generator. I tend to run the generator for an hour each morning regardless because I like to use the microwave to keep my morning coffee hot (it takes me 40 minutes to drink a cup of coffee :lol:), use a toaster, and other b'fast items. I figure an hour with the 36 amp charger will bounce my batteries back since I rarely pull the anchor until about noon. If I stay a 2nd night, then I'm hoping another hour of the 2000i in the evening will get me thru the night. One problem may be attempting to run the microwave (700 watts), and especially the toaster, while the charger is operating.
 
I would "invest" in one of the "Kill-A-Watt" meters: from Amazon-about $18! That way you will know exactly what you can run.

The microwave may be more than 700 watts in--So you want to know how much it is using. If a separate toaster, it may be another 1200 watts? If so, just there is may be too much for the Honda EU 2000. But best to check for a few dollars!

Group 24 are small for your use. If the house bank is two 60 amp hr batteries, you effectively have 60 amps. (do not discharge more than 50%) I would want at least top of the line group 27 next time you change the batteries and there is plenty of room in the 25 for them. You have 120 amp hours of batteries. You are over the 25%, but probably OK, I assume you have the 360 elite, which does have the fan cooler. This would be better. I would also like to see some battery monitor system. The refrigerator averages about 2.5 to 3 amps an hour in the PNW. So in 24 hours you will be using somewhere close to the capacity of the batteries for just the refrigeration. What is the voltage when you wake up in the morning, with the refrigerator off? I mentioned some cheap monitors in the past, only about $16, but have to be reset, and not as convenient as the Victron 700 or 702/ Link 10 plus/ I am using one of the cheap ones to monitor my freezer/refer batteries, and the link for the house./ engine start.
 
thataway,

All good ideas....many of which, for better or worse, have already been done.

The batteries were on their last legs when I got the boat. I had to replace them right away, so I just got the identical ones not knowing any better (Optima Bluetop AGM group 24). Had I to do it over again, I'd likely get the group 27s. I get by on the dual 24s, but just barely. I'll likely need to replace them again in the not too distant future -- sooner than normal since unfortunately I do let the SOC drop below 50% at times.

I read your praise for a "Kill-A-Watt" meter here in the forum some time ago, and bought one (or one similar at least). Haven't used it much yet tho. Now that I think about it, I got a new microwave, and I believe it is 900 watts. We don't use the toaster much, and if we do, not at the same time as the microwave.

Yes, I got the 360 elite series charger (model 52032). I plan to mount it under the splash well centered in the transom. This charger is OK in wet environments. I have a custom hatch in the center of the cockpit back wall which I can open if needs be.

I already have a Victron 700 installed, and did so after reading posts in this forum (I think Pat Peterson's glowing remarks convinced me). I had it done when I re-powered last summer.

My morning voltage is usually about 12 to 12.2v. A bit lower than I'd like. I have gone down to maybe 11.8v a few times. I don't usually run the refer more than 16 hours without running the engine to beef up the voltage. With the new charger I can stop using the engine, and just use the EU2000. Once I get group 27s, I should be golden. Too bad I didn't do that at first.
 
I purchased a Balmar SmartGauge and will install it this weekend. Cheapest I could find it for was $265 w/ free frt from a marine electrical supplier in Maryland. Not cheap but if it works as advertised, it will be well worth it. Simple enough to wire in. I was struck by how simple it appeared for the money. Kind of ironic that Balmar is 20 minutes from my home and I had to buy it across the country.

To those that installed one, I noticed it had no mounting hardware at all. No screws, no brackets...nothing. How is it supposed to stay put in the cut out?
My thought was some two sided tape along the edge. :? :roll: Don't want it falling out in rough weather. Kinda disappointing, really.
 
Mark,
I had a similar gauge by Balmar a few boats back. My recollection is that there is about a 3/8" flange of the panel material over the front, and the box is smaller than the front panel.

Cut out the same size as the box, with the flange being the attachment area. I drilled 4 screw holes, counter sunk, and used 4 #6 screws to hold the flange (and meter in place). Double stick tape on the bak of the range will also work--but might cause some damage wen removed.
 
At the other end of the battery monitor system is this digital voltage gauge for $3, including shipping.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B008KY5ULW/re ... T75J24BTXZ

Mine is mounted well away from the batteries, so it probably isn't perfectly accutate as it would take into account any voltage drop caused by the wiring. I'm okay with that. It also isn't monitoring a perfectly open system at times because the solar panels may be contributing to the reading. It monitors which ever battery(s) are on per the battery switch. It shows the charging state so I know immediately if the OB alternator is working.

It is very basic. 12.2V is 50% SOC (I've never even been close to that after a night on the house battery). 12.4V is 75% charge (I've seen that once on the house battery). I have seen 11.7V for a moment when I was using the inverter to power my induction burner and forgot that the heat was on. Might not be good for any of these items, but didn't seem to cause any harm. My inverter beeps when feed voltage drops below 10.7V.

I put mine on a switch because the little LED light could shine into my face at night when I'm in the V berth. The actual draw is minuscule and it could be always left on when the battery(s) is on.

Everything needs to be simplified and scaled down on a 16, but this little gadget works fine for monitoring two Group 24s. And the price was right. I bought three and it was a good thing. I broke one during the install.

http://www.c-brats.com/albums/album2416/102_0045.jpg

Mark
 
t is very basic. 12.2V is 50% SOC (I've never even been close to that after a night on the house battery). 12.4V is 75% charge (I've seen that once on the house battery). I have seen 11.7V for a moment when I was using the inverter to power my induction burner and forgot that the heat was on. Might not be good for any of these items, but didn't seem to cause any harm. My inverter beeps when feed voltage drops below 10.7V.
Click to expand...

Great little monitors. I put one round one (size of cig lighter plug--about a 1" hole--in my son's 25. Agree that should be shut off when not using the boat. If the wire is even 22 gauge, and the connections are good, the voltage should be fairly accurate.

Dropping to 11.7 or 10.7 volts is not a problem for short periods. When you start the engine, often the battery goes below this momentarily. The steady state of discharge is with no current draw and the battery "resting" for at least several hours. In reality most of us are quite conservative. Many boats and RV's have a generator "Auto Start" and in many of these cases I have seen the auto start set as low 11.7 volts, because of the current draw of large appliances--including a large residential refrigerator.
 
I just finished two weeks on a private house boat on Lake Powell with no generator or connection to the house battery system from the starting battery/main motor. There were five large solar panels and a MPPT 12 volt converter feeding into a Walmart plastic tub full of batteries. Output was 12 volt to mostly LED lights and some convenience outlets and to a good sized 12v to 110v inverter that ran various chargers that did not connect to 12 volt and a regular half sized household refrigerator/freezer that gave me temps down to 36 degrees at night and held during the 107 degree day times to 40-42 degrees. The system was a bit rough on install and the panels were flat on the roof, shaded at times and covered in dust until the first good rain.
#1 Buy an ARB fridge, fraction of the current use of a Dometic or Norcold, no need for propane and they run fine on 110v but better on 12v as Danfoss compressors are native 12v
#2 Forget the microwave thing. I just spent my third week horse camping this summer and found that a small propane stove makes a huge pot of coffee for the camp in short order. I know about bottled gas on a boat but when I have 25-100 gallons of regular in a cockpit tank who cares about a one pound bottle of propane stored in an overboard location? I also use the small butane cartridge stoves but do not trust them. I had a Cape Dory 36 sailboat with two natural gas "scuba bottle" tanks that were safe to operate but a hassle to get filled.
#3 I make "cowboy toast" in a pan and cannot make it fast enough for the "customers". Far better than a 110v toaster and I can do a loaf of bread in quick time.
#4 My Honda 2000i will run a RV Coleman Polar Cub or the low current Mach III (?) fine. It will not start my 13,000-14,000 BTU older RV AC's but they do not have the hard start kit either. The Honda has been flawless and if you want an extended run system here is a link to the absolute best version - John's store has all the parts or complete systems needed to go days on a Honda 2000: http://stores.ebay.com/brucejonh?ssPage ... 1438.l2653
#5 I modify my trucks to take larger batteries. I use a 27 where a 24 was originally and a 31 where there was a 27. May have to chop up the base but who cares? I just had a Group 27 private label maintenance free battery go almost five years on my 2006 Toyota Tundra (235,000 miles on the odometer).
#6 I strongly favor small solar trickle chargers over the small float or maintenance chargers in my horse trailer and small HiLo travel trailer. The cheap chargers have eaten a few batteries over time for me.
#7 I try to fuse/breaker all devices, including at the unit itself. I mark the power demand on each device with a Dymo labeler or marker pin after a 24 hours Save-A-Watt monitoring (don't trust a short use measurement).
#8 If you store your boat or RV for along time, I would take the battery banks out, put them on an elevated isolated mat and run a float charger (also protect them from freezing). This doubles their life if you also watch out for overly deep discharge or too rapid bulk charge.
And last but not least, my 15 year old Gott 65 quart cooler which I found in the trash will go 8-9 days or more on ice and hold temps to below 40 degrees at the bottom even on Lake Powell or desert camping if I:
#1 Pre-chlll the box for 12 or more hours.
#2 Make my own "hard ice" in 10-20 pound blocks
#3 Near freeze whatever is going into the box at the start
#4 Freeze as much of the food in the box as I can, I use a VacuSeal system also to keep things clean.
#5 I start with 50% of the volume as hard ice. Now the big secret, I use an eight pound block of dry ice on the top inside of the load, watch out it is not too close to vegetables or other things not to be frozen.
#6 I have foiled/reflective bubble wrap cut into a bottom, side and double top insert for the interior of the chest.
#7 I leave no airspace nor use a 1.5 battery powered fan anymore.
#8 My ice is in containers, I leave the melt water in the containers, better than air.
#9 If possible I keep a wet towel over the whole chest, evaporative cooling keeps the outside of the box cold to the touch.
#10 I use a shade cover at all times, keep the lid closed as much is possible, stack the food in the order it will be used and try to not add warm items to the box over the trip and if I do add items, I pre-chill them if I can.
I would be rather be a C-Brat than President of the US (who wouldn't)!!
Bob Jarrard
 
Thanks, Dr Bob. I'll look at my options. Just don't want to break the thing; it's pretty light weight plastic with a minimal "frame".

I imagine it was designed to be placed horizontal or nearly, but in my install it will be on the vertical.
 
Over the years I've used most every kind of stove on a boat and I'm most impressed with my induction burner. Butane and propane have two huge shortcoming. 1) Open flame and 2) open flame.

1) When the wind blows, it's basically impossible to get out of the wind on a 16. I liked to place the burner on the fish cleaning table, but even with the bimini top up there was enough wind that I was using twice as much fuel as I would with no wind. And the pot has to be just the right size to maximize the flame. It just seems so inefficient.

2) To minimize the amount of wind, the bimini has to be completely zipped down, whether in the cockpit or using the table as the cooking surface. Which is faster, grabbing the fire extinguisher or unzipping and jumping overboard? I don't care to find out.

Of course, with butane/propane there is also the moisture issue and the finding butane canisters issue and how full is my propane tank issue and the how many tanks/canisters should I take issue, and the did the flame go out when I turned it down issue, and the do you smell gas issue, etc. I did two trips using a butane canister stove and I now think that I'd rather go without a stove than use it again. Just eat stuff out of the can.

An induction burner has some issues. You have to use a magnetic pot or pan. There are stainless pots that work, and I bought a SS induction espresso maker just for the boat. The cooking surface is glass and you can't really use it in anything but a calm sea unless the first mate holds the pot, or I devise a rim on the burner, or I get to the project of making my little burner gimballed. And you have to watch your electrical consumption (which ties it into this thread), although that has yet to be a problem form me. Whether cooking my dinner at night or making coffee in the morning, the induction stove has never dropped the SOC by more than 1/10 of a volt, the smallest increment my voltmeter can read.

I've been spoiled by using an induction burner. It was $50 (not counting the 1000W pure sine wave inverter), tucks under the captain's seat with the other galley stuff, can be used inside or, with a 6' extension cord, on the back deck. Spills are easy to clean because the surface is glass and whatever is spilled does not burn. That's kind of nice on a boat.

It really is as quick as a microwave at what appears to be half the electrical usage. Unlike a microwave, it can actually bake. I've used it twice with a little cast iron dutch oven and the corn bread came out with a browned crust and top. The baked potato tasted baked, not steamed as in a microwave (that did take an hour at the burner's 2nd lowest setting). I'm sold.

Mark
 
localboy":1jf7fjmz said:
I purchased a Balmar SmartGauge and will install it this weekend.

To those that installed one, I noticed it had no mounting hardware at all. No screws, no brackets...nothing. How is it supposed to stay put in the cut out?
Click to expand...


I've been using a SmartGauge for a year or so in my RV, as has a friend. They seem to work very well (I also have a Victron BMV 700 coulomb counter type gauge so I can cross check - and because it does other things - but the SG rocks and is my daily quick go-to gauge).

I agree the visual design and the mounting flange are somewhat disappointing. My buddy very carefully made holes in the corners of the flange and used fasteners to mount it. I actually have mine friction fitted into a part of the foam that it came in, which I cut out and screwed (the foam) to a semi-portable mounting board. But for permanent/boat mounting I'd definitely consider tape/adhesive instead of fasteners.

You may already be aware of this, but the SG is actually designed by another company in the UK (Merlin/a fellow who is a narrowboater), but licensed (or whatever the technicality is) by Balmar in the US. It's the same somewhat dated looking design in the UK, just with the Merlin logo where the Balmar name is. However, it's just so effective that I forgive it the dated appearance and the annoying pressure membrane controls.
 
Good to hear. I look forward to having data on our house single bank group 31. Last battery only lasted 3 yrs; hopefully, this one will last longer now that we have this!

I got it all neatly installed today. Installed it next to the Wallas control where the older, cheap battery monitor was mounted. The unit is only friction mounted for now, but it is very snug. Took lots of fine tuning on the cut out, but I think it may stay put. If it doesn't, I'll drill two small holes to use tiny screws in the frame. I knew about it being made in U.K. but did not know they contracted w/ Balmar. It's amazing such a unit could cost so much, but I guess we are paying for the knowledge/software etc and not the physical unit itself.

http://www.c-brats.com/modules.php?...ame=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
 
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