Honda Generator.

Bshillan,

you can buy the black "yoke" they make to tie two Honda i2000s together and attach it to the genset. It has a 30 amp, twistlock receptacle into which you can twist lock your shore power line. That way there is not extra wiring and the 110V comes directly into your 110V box just as if using shore power.

John
 
Well, you can eliminate the inverter, and just run batteries and a gen set. But, if you want to have 110 VAC underway, one must have an inverter. I'm thinking of running the laptop for navigation, or even (gasp) popping popcorn underway. Granted, it doesn't have to be as big, but you still need one. Yes, you can run the generator underway, but that might be messy, hanging it over the transom.

And, just as a freebie, Peukert's Law has nothing to do with recharge. It allows one to calculate battery state-of-charge as a function of the discharge rate. Recharge is a different story, and to the best of my knowledge is more a rule of thumb.

Boris

Addendum:

Peukert's law is as follows:

C_p = I^k t ,

where:

* C_p , is the capacity according to Peukert, at a one-ampere discharge rate, expressed in A·h.
* I is the discharge current, expressed in A.
* k is the Peukert constant, dimensionless, varies between 1.1-1.3 and the age of the battery.
* t is the time of discharge, expressed in h.
 
Too esoteric for me, Boris, Joe, et al...

Point of interest, just recently got a flyer from Harbor Freight Tools, they will sell you a 1000 watt generator (Chinese?) for $299...there is a brand new Harbor Freight Tools retail store in Bellevue on N.E. 20th, just a little west of the big Overlake Fred Meyer store.
 
Pat Anderson":6altgmdt said:
Too estoeric for me, Boris, Joe, et al...

Point of interest, just recently got a flyer from Harbor Freight Tools, they will sell you a 1000 watt generator (Chinese?) for $299...there is a brand new Harbor Freight Tools retail store in Bellevue on N.E. 20th, just a little west of the big Overlake Fred Meyer store.
Click to expand...

Pat-

I know we get a bit too detailed for everyone to follow sometimes, but we're like a bunch of silly engineers just trying to one-up each other and keep each other honest, if anyone outside that group can understand that type of circus! (Address inquiries to DogOnDory Dan, please.)

Anyway, I buy a lot of stuff from Harbor Freight myself, mostly because of the reduced prices and the fact that I don't use tools intensively like a commercial or industrial user would.

The generator you mention is actually on sale now for $269.99!

Here's a LINK for everyone to check out.

I bought a similar unit myself a few years ago, but then sold it and bought my Honda for a number of reasons, so I'd like to point out a few differences between that generator and a Honda for your consideration.

The Honda weighs 29 lbs. , whereas the H-F unit weighs 67 lbs. That's quite a difference, depending on how much you're going to be hoisting it around.

More importantly, the Honda is an inverter style generator .

What this means is that the motor runs at whatever speed is necessary to develop the power needed, and the 60 cycle current is made in an inverter inside the generator, so that the rpm is no more than necessary to carry the load.

In a conventional generator like the H-F unit, the gas engine always runs at 3600 rpm because it has to to in order to develop the 60 cycle current in the generator's armature. This means the engine turns over 60 times a second, whereas the Honda can loaf along at whatever speed necessary, perhaps as low as 600 rpm or 10 times a second, quite a difference. The speed of the motor's exhaust is a big factor (IMHO) in determining how bothersome the noise coming from a generator is.

Moreover, the H-F unit is said to generate 63 dB's of noise (it doesn't say if this is at idle or full speed), while the Honda makes 59 dB's at full load and 53 dB's at idle. This is a logrithmic number scale, so that's quite a difference in noise.

Another facet of this with the inverter style generator vs. the conventional one is that the inverter one is very smooth in operation and produces a more perfect 60 cycle sine wave form and a more consistent frequency. This makes no difference unless you're running sensitive electronic equipment on your generator's power, like a computer. The inverter in the Honda is of the highest quality.

The motor of the H-F unit is a 2.4 hp unit that runs up to 5 hours on a 4.2 liter gas tank capacity. The Honda unit develops 1.8 hp, and runs 8.3 hrs at 1/4 load, or 3.8 hours at full load, on a 0.6 gal (~2 liter) tank. Because of the up to qualification, it's impossible to determine exact comparative gas consumption figures, but it looks like the Honda is way more efficient1 Both motors are 4 stroke OHV engines.

The H-F unit cannot be sold in California because of the restrictions of the California Air Resources Board.

It seems to me the H-F unit is one sold world-wide to develop power at an inexpensive initial outlay, whereas the Honda unit is targeted for use in a more developed country and compatible with more sophisticated electrical appliances.

Just some things to think about!

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
Hey Pat!! You misspelled esoteric. Of course, I only know that because I had to look it up to see what it means.

I bought a Honda 2000i last month when the lights were out. Paid $999 for it but I was one of three dozen who ordered them the day before. I like and trust the store (get my John Deere stuff there, too) and the unit was serviced, test run and full of gas. I have been wanting one for quite a while so I almost welcomed the excuse to get it now. It's good. I like it.

It is hard to find a price for the things online except for ebay. Most dealers listing them on the web tell you to call for a price. The one for $879 delivered was a good price. The outfit that sold me mine keeps them on the shelf for the same price as he charged during the 5-day power outage. I have seen them on sale there for a hundred less.
 
Here's a link to another Harbour Freight knock off: McCulloch Generator. This one is a "2000" inverter unit for $500.

H-F used to sell Kipur generators, which are a very close copy of the Honda. Now you can't find them and I assume they had trouble with them. Which brings us to the point of usefulness. Using a portable generator on a boat is tough on the generator. So, why would you want to save a couple of hundred dollars for a Chinese copy, AFTER you spent $10,000 on the latest dependable Honda/Yamaha/Suzuki engine. I look at the generator as both a piece of safety equipment (to ensure that the batteries can start the motor,) and as something that makes anchoring out possible and enjoyable. Buy something dependable Honda/Yamaha/Briggs-Stratton.

Boris
 
Boris-

Interesting that you bought up the Kipur genertors!

I bought one like the present H-F on e at first.

Didn't like it, too much noise. and vibration.

Just not right.

Bought it for around $270 and sold it on ebay for about $30 less.

Saw a Honda 1000i used in our paper for $500 and bought it. Very few hours.

Back then (2 years ago), you could buy a new one for a minimum of $630 + freight on ebay.

I understand Honda is trying to stop the price cutting as much as possible.

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
One other thing!

If any of you et a Honda, Yamaha, or whatever generator, be sure to lock it up and hide it as much as possible when leaving it in the boat or exposed elsewhere.

These upper end generators are favorite targets of thieves as they can be resold easily.

They are often stolen from RV units especially, even when running and connected!

Your TV goes black, you look out the window, and your generator is going down the road in the back end of a pickup.

Even a chain is no guarantee. Best to hide them as well as chain them down, etc.

Here's a LINK to a discussion about a box I used to secure my generator on my Sea Ray. On the C-Dory, I put it under the dinette table and put a cardboard box over it to hide it, then lock the cabin.

By the way, there are many threads about generators on this site. Use the search engine!



Joe. :thup :teeth
 
As those of you who know us might suspect, we find this thread on generators of interest since we find no need to own one. One of the great joys of living on a boat, for us, is to return to a more simplified lifestyle -- a galley without microwave ovens or refrigerator, an evening without a television the size of a football field ...

Swinging on a hook, in a quiet cove, snuggled in the cockpit listening to the evening 'chat' of birds, watching the moon rise and the glistening reflections on the water ... we've yet to find a t.v. show that can beat that performance. As for a microwave, we never had one ashore until given a used one by folks who thought we must be too poor to buy one ... and they couldn't believe we preferred not having one. A refrig on a boat? We stop for fuel every few days when underway, and almost all marinas have ice for our ice box.

As the length of this thread indicates, generators only add a layer of unnecessary (for us) complexity to a quiet, simple life aboard.
 
El and Bill":2hew8bab said:
As those of you who know us might suspect, we find this thread on generators of interest since we find no need to own one. ...
As the length of this thread indicates, generators only add a layer of unnecessary (for us) complexity to a quiet, simple life aboard.
Click to expand...

You two must realize how exceptional you are... and I mean that in the nicest way. I fully expected you to chime in with this post, much like you present your point of view on the 22 vs 25 threads. Many of us try to use you two as role models, but I gotta tell you, it isn't easy giving up most of our worldly possessions. I kept the words "simplify" and "minimalist" in mind as we sold our house up north, knowing that we would spend much of our time on our boat.

For the rest of us on this thread, "getting away from it all" means bringing as much of our life onshore as we can cram into our boats! :wink Three outfits? (no, not just for one day, but for the duration of the cruise???) No hot water at the turn of a valve? No DVD player, iPod, toaster oven (or microwave), etc, etc??? Now, I will probably be tarred and feathered for taking a contrary view, but now you've gone too far! No refrigerator??? That's almost unAmerican. Our little fridge allows us to make enough ice each day to put in our after-the-anchor-is-down drinks. When I pull out a slice of cheese to enjoy while I'm listening to satellite radio, I don't have to swirl around through two inches of ice water to find it!

So, let's see... you've had Halcyon for about 7 years... we know you do some other off-boat stuff... you say you buy ice every couple of days... so, let's figure ice once a week... at $2-3 bucks a bag... for 7 years... multiply by 52, carry the 2, where'd I put that electronic calculator... why, that's enough money to buy a fridge AND a generator!!! Now, I know your secret - you're independently wealthy! I wouldn't be surprised to find that there is a super-secret Halcyon chase boat that follows you around... keeping your drinks chilled, someone to draw your bath... and a whole room full of big screen TVs, microwaves, salad-shooters, video games, hot tub, masseuse, a treadmill or two, and a giant ice-maker!

Or maybe you have stock in an ice-making company?

We all know you have your concessions to the modern world: your laptop, your wireless broadband, and your b&w TV with the 3.725" screen. We know you listen to internet radio. What's next? We'll find out that you don't make fire by rubbing two sticks together, but just flick your Bic?

I hear the collective gasps from the C-Dory faithful... "You have blastphemed (that may not be a real word) Bill and El!" I hear the pitchforks clinking and the torches being lit. :shock: Easy there, angry mob, I was just funnin' around. Bill and El are a model for many of us to work toward. Shucks, I can't begin to tell you how much we've simplified our lives in the past couple years... but I have to admit something: I love those sunrises and sunsets at anchor... I'll even listen to those damn birds if there isn't something good on TV... but, I like having the modern conveniences we haul around with us. And I really like having a generator, so I can make electricity or charge up stuff when I want. And I love my boat refrigerator. And don't get me started on my beautiful enclosed head.

I have simplified, dammit... and this is as simple as I get! (that may not have come out the way I intended :crook )

After all, we left the working world so we could spend more time on our boat... and I traded a snow blower in towards my generator!!! :mrgreen:

Best wishes,
Jim B. (tongue in cheek, wink, wink, nudge, nudge)
 
Yeah, isn't that a bummer! Typo, not spelling error - that's my story and I'm sticking to it! I corrected it just now but my boo-boo was captured in the quoted message! So what did Google define: return for the way I had it?
TyBoo":1jizk3no said:
Hey Pat!! You misspelled esoteric. Of course, I only know that because I had to look it up to see what it means.
Click to expand...
 
For me the Bill and El post above is gospel. It warrants a second look. Sometimes less IS more, and sometimes just standing there is much better than doing something.
 
Jim, good review of many present-day boomer generation thinking, have it all. But I'd like to add my view and to what El and Bill said between the lines...

When I anchor out (or moor) in a nice quiet marina, sometimes even Catalina, and there's some guy running his generator all day, starting at 7am and ending maybe at 10pm (hopefully), and sometimes even not on his boat in the evening while they have dinner ashore (a big no-no of course), I have this desire to put a black stocking cap, some blackout face cream, my black wet suit, and stealth over there in my raft and see if I can locate his "outty" boat plug. Like I said, it's just a desire.

Even with the quieter gen models, still it disturbs the ambiance of why we cherish boating so much. Some people even warn us when we pull up to moor or anchor and say they'll be running their generator, hope you don't mind the noise...! grrrrrr, but at least their courteous about it, even though that may be the last available spot for the night. :x
 
You can buy pre-made, underbody aluminum boxes at Tractor Supply, etc., in to which either Honda genset will fit along with spare fuel, etc.. You can cut enough vents in to allow the genset to run inside the box closed, or you can just put enough vents in to allow gas fumes to escape during storage and mount the genset on top when using as Sea Wolf does.

I have photos of my genset box on my photo album. It works on the trailer, in the rain, at anchor and while underway in all seas so far up to 8ft waves with no problems.

John
 
Easy there, Marty...your reverence is showing! As usual, Jim has me splitting a gut! Hey, Tyboo - jump on JIM'S spelling, "blastphemed"??? We're in Jim's camp, we like our stuff, including the refrigerator, head and generator! (B&E do have music on the laptop, so can't harp on them about the music. Good stuff, too - Chesapeake Scenes and Olga Symphony). The one thing I have always wondered about, after my recent battery trials and tribulations, is how the heck Bill and El keep their batteries charged enough to run the Wallas - when you cruise maybe 40 miles total in a week and spend most of your time eyeball to eyeball with moose or drifting off a tidal estuary listening to the birds...
dotnmarty":3qa4ttod said:
For me the Bill and El post above is gospel. It warrants a second look. Sometimes less IS more, and sometimes just standing there is much better than doing something.
Click to expand...
 
Yea and I say unto thee brothers and sisters. :teeth PROPANE ! :thup
Propane is the answer. Forsake the infernal generator. :twisted: Propane stove, fridge, heater and barbi. :smilep No Smoking Please. :embarrased If the OB wont start, that's what that piece of rope they gave you is for. :crook Just remember, north of the boarder, tank pressure testing is only good for 10 years. :thdown

Capn Jack
 
Dora~Jean":1h85di8u said:
Jim, good review of many present-day boomer generation thinking, have it all. But I'd like to add my view and to what El and Bill said between the lines...
Click to expand...

Come on, Steve, if my tongue were any further in my cheek, it would be poking through. :twisted: We've traveled together... did we disturb anyone's enjoyment of the moment? 8) The folks on this forum run the gamut, from Sea Skipper's boat that would put the Starship Enterprise to shame to the guy asking about a 9.9 on a 16. I love our diversity! And unlike the sailing sites (and having been an f-boat owner, I know you understand the perspective), there is no "competition" here... we're one big freakin' happy family! :hug :hug2

There are some constants here... the engineers will tell us why it won't work, Brent, Dave and others like them will self-design something that will work, Bill and El will tell us how we can get along without it, Roger will find some way to use it to fish, and some newbie will ask if they need one or two of whatever it is. :mrgreen: And the odds are pretty good, that I'll find some way to have a laugh about it. 8)

I'm pretty good at reading between the lines. See if I send you any more sunset and sunrise photos! (Yes, I'm still joking.)

And to brother Pat...
how the heck bill and El keep their batteries charged enough to run the Wallas...
Click to expand...
I'm telling ya, man, it's the chase boat and a long HD extention cord.

Best wishes,
Jim

PS One of the first responses to my first post here was from Bill and El... if they weren't friends, I wouldn't kid 'em. Just ask Dixie. :twisted:
 
Hey Jim, no worries, it's hard to show emotions in text (even with emoticons!). I wasn't intending to slam anyone, just some of my experiences with people that may not consider how they are affecting the other boaters that really want to hear natural sounds. I realize that most RVs and boats must have a way to recharge their systems from time to time, maybe those new Bose, anti-noise canceling headphones are the answer!!!

I have a 15yr old, 30W flex solar panel, it's about 1/8" thick, I tie it on the roof and plug it into my 12V outlet at the dash if I'm staying 3 or more days. I don't have a refer, but I do take lots of teens. With a 2-3 hr movie, stereo, lights for games, electric water pump, Wallas heater, I average about 20-25 AHr usage per night. On a sunny day, the solar panel usually charges the battery back to 100% by the end of the day.

So Jim, pleeeease keep those pics coming... :wink
 
Screw this courteous pussy-footin' around! Here's my story:

I enjoy being out away from the hustle and bustle of modern life myself, but I'm not going to kid myself into thinking I'm a reincarnation of Throreau reflecting on nature on Walden Pond either, my training in the biological sciences not withstanding!

I DO enjoy having many of the conveniences we're discussing aboard my boat, but don't always use them, and in fact, sometimes don't use them much at all.

Why have them? Three reasons:

One, they're there when you do need them, some of them being very useful safety devices like the generator, radios, and electric and propane heaters.

Two, they're fun and entertaining, satisfying my mental needs to tinker around with and maintain some mechanical and electric do-dads. O course, that's just a reflection of my professional and hobby interests, but it ain't going away any too soon!

Three, they are useful, each in it's own way, adding to the convenience of staying aboard the boat and adding variety to the daily routines.

Bring on the electricity and propane, they make this boat come alive and entertain my idle mind. After I contemplate the nature of the Universe for awhile, I'll be wantin' to tinker with my little piece of it!

That's my story and I'm stickin' too it!

Joe. :thup :teeth
 
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