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honda generator
- Thread starter triton1
- Start date
A 13500 BTU is close. I have a 13500 duo therm on my Rosborough and it will start sometimes and not start at other times. The start amps is the problem not running amps. I just ordered a Hard Start Capacitor supco spp6e from Patriot supply for $19.25 but have not installed it yet. Read up on it and see what you think.
Ron
Ron
The simple answer is no. The hard start capacitor might help--but if you want to have success, it is going to cost more $$. The Smart Start by Dometic costs about $450:
Here is some information from another forum from Dometic about this Smart Start:
Technical Differences between the Dometic SmartStart and the Supco SPP6E (Class E Super Boost)
The Supco SPP6E Super Boost device consists of a 88-106MFD start capacitor connected in series with an electronically-controlled, solid-state potential relay. Using voltage sensing, it connects the start capacitor in parallel to the air conditioners run capacitor during the start up. As the voltage across the run capacitor (Run winding to Start winding) increases during the start, the device switches out the start capacitor at a preset level or after a timeout period expires. This sequence partially mimics the behavior of a full hard-start kit (start cap with a mechanical start relay) but not exactly. A true potential start relay has its coil connected across the compressor Common and the Start winding. The voltage behavior between these two compressor terminals is a little more predicable during a start-up. As a result, a true start relay can accomplish a more reliable disengagement of the start capacitor. Nevertheless, the Supco Super Boost does provide a good portion of the benefit of a true hard-start kit and reduced cost. Based on our measurements (shown below), the Super Boost provided a startup current surge reduction of about 20-25%.
The new Dometic SmartStart is completely different. The SmartStart uses a microprocessor to provide real-time control of the applied voltage and current to the Start winding and Run winding independently. The voltage applied to the start winding is also shifted in phase by an internal start capacitor. The application of voltage is so precise that each half alternation of the applied AC power is individually handled by the microprocessor. Then, using back EMF detection, the SmartStart determines when the motor’s rotor actually begins to rotate. The SmartStart then accelerates the rotor until it has achieved full speed. Then, at a very precise moment when the current waveform passes through zero, the SmartStart seamlessly bypasses its internal control devices with relays to connect the Run winding directly with L2 and disconnecting from the Start winding.
The SmartStart’s intelligence then even goes beyond this. Using the information it gathers from each start, it actually “learns” from what happened during one startup to determine what to use on its next startup. So, immediately after installing and using it on for the very first time, the SmartStart may take up to 10 startups for it to optimize itself to the absolute lowest possible starting current. After that, it continues to fine tune its startup behavior from start to start, up or down, depending on age of the compressor, environmental conditions, and voltage.
The Honda EU2000i is quite a potent little device. Regardless of the start component configuration, it was able to start the 16000 BTU system reliably when the ECO mode was turned off. When the ECO mode was turned on, however, the generator had trouble with the standard configuration and with the Supco SPP6E installed. The Supco Super Boost did help, but the resulting voltage drop to around 67V (46%) was problematic in that it did sometimes reset the digital controls. Other equipment running off the same generator would have also been affected.
The SmartStart made a dramatic difference. With the ECO switch turned on, the generator was able to tolerate the 18 amp start surge with only about a 20% drop in voltage. With the ECO switch turned off, the generator didn’t even flinch (i.e. no measurable voltage drop).
Summary
As was cited elsewhere in this thread, the Honda EU2000i can support a 16,000 BTU air conditioner without any added hardware. But as our testing showed, this would only work if the ECO mode was turned off. Adding the Supco SPP6E provides a marginal improvement, but for our specific test with the 16000 BTU system, it could not guarantee a reliable start-up if the generator was operating in ECO mode. Beyond this, if other equipment is already loading the generator (e.g. sea water pump), that will further reduce the available amperage for the compressor start-up. Adding the Dometic SmartStart provides a dramatic improvement, provides a reliable start under almost all conditions, and will allow the generator to be run in ECO mode, which will certainly reduce fuel consumption.
I left out the tables which show the actual current draw.
If you have the 9000 Series Coleman, it will probably not work. If you have the 8000 series Coleman, it probably will work.
The Yahama 2400 watt generator might be a better match.
Buy a Kil-o-Watt tester to see what the current draw of your unit is. (Unfortunately this meter averages over seconds, and your full start up load will be in the 300 for so millisecond time frame....
Give your Honda 2000 A try--turn everything off on the boat (battery charger...esp), and have the engine on non eco mode. Watch the voltage and see what it does.
Here is some information from another forum from Dometic about this Smart Start:
Technical Differences between the Dometic SmartStart and the Supco SPP6E (Class E Super Boost)
The Supco SPP6E Super Boost device consists of a 88-106MFD start capacitor connected in series with an electronically-controlled, solid-state potential relay. Using voltage sensing, it connects the start capacitor in parallel to the air conditioners run capacitor during the start up. As the voltage across the run capacitor (Run winding to Start winding) increases during the start, the device switches out the start capacitor at a preset level or after a timeout period expires. This sequence partially mimics the behavior of a full hard-start kit (start cap with a mechanical start relay) but not exactly. A true potential start relay has its coil connected across the compressor Common and the Start winding. The voltage behavior between these two compressor terminals is a little more predicable during a start-up. As a result, a true start relay can accomplish a more reliable disengagement of the start capacitor. Nevertheless, the Supco Super Boost does provide a good portion of the benefit of a true hard-start kit and reduced cost. Based on our measurements (shown below), the Super Boost provided a startup current surge reduction of about 20-25%.
The new Dometic SmartStart is completely different. The SmartStart uses a microprocessor to provide real-time control of the applied voltage and current to the Start winding and Run winding independently. The voltage applied to the start winding is also shifted in phase by an internal start capacitor. The application of voltage is so precise that each half alternation of the applied AC power is individually handled by the microprocessor. Then, using back EMF detection, the SmartStart determines when the motor’s rotor actually begins to rotate. The SmartStart then accelerates the rotor until it has achieved full speed. Then, at a very precise moment when the current waveform passes through zero, the SmartStart seamlessly bypasses its internal control devices with relays to connect the Run winding directly with L2 and disconnecting from the Start winding.
The SmartStart’s intelligence then even goes beyond this. Using the information it gathers from each start, it actually “learns” from what happened during one startup to determine what to use on its next startup. So, immediately after installing and using it on for the very first time, the SmartStart may take up to 10 startups for it to optimize itself to the absolute lowest possible starting current. After that, it continues to fine tune its startup behavior from start to start, up or down, depending on age of the compressor, environmental conditions, and voltage.
The Honda EU2000i is quite a potent little device. Regardless of the start component configuration, it was able to start the 16000 BTU system reliably when the ECO mode was turned off. When the ECO mode was turned on, however, the generator had trouble with the standard configuration and with the Supco SPP6E installed. The Supco Super Boost did help, but the resulting voltage drop to around 67V (46%) was problematic in that it did sometimes reset the digital controls. Other equipment running off the same generator would have also been affected.
The SmartStart made a dramatic difference. With the ECO switch turned on, the generator was able to tolerate the 18 amp start surge with only about a 20% drop in voltage. With the ECO switch turned off, the generator didn’t even flinch (i.e. no measurable voltage drop).
Summary
As was cited elsewhere in this thread, the Honda EU2000i can support a 16,000 BTU air conditioner without any added hardware. But as our testing showed, this would only work if the ECO mode was turned off. Adding the Supco SPP6E provides a marginal improvement, but for our specific test with the 16000 BTU system, it could not guarantee a reliable start-up if the generator was operating in ECO mode. Beyond this, if other equipment is already loading the generator (e.g. sea water pump), that will further reduce the available amperage for the compressor start-up. Adding the Dometic SmartStart provides a dramatic improvement, provides a reliable start under almost all conditions, and will allow the generator to be run in ECO mode, which will certainly reduce fuel consumption.
I left out the tables which show the actual current draw.
If you have the 9000 Series Coleman, it will probably not work. If you have the 8000 series Coleman, it probably will work.
The Yahama 2400 watt generator might be a better match.
Buy a Kil-o-Watt tester to see what the current draw of your unit is. (Unfortunately this meter averages over seconds, and your full start up load will be in the 300 for so millisecond time frame....
Give your Honda 2000 A try--turn everything off on the boat (battery charger...esp), and have the engine on non eco mode. Watch the voltage and see what it does.
Bob, Thanks for a very detailed reply. I was about to buy the Smart unit when someone mentioned success with the spp6e. At that price I decided it was worth a try. If it won't cut it in comes a Smart start.
Ron
P.S. I am waiting for the alum. flatbottom to come and then the 9.9 for logs.
Ron
P.S. I am waiting for the alum. flatbottom to come and then the 9.9 for logs.